Burning green conifers to destroy pine beetle habitat

[bigsnowdog]

I have a reforestation project and am involved in thinning conifers, including white pine and Scotch pine. I am advised I need to burn or chip the trees to prevent the existence of habitat for pine beetles.

Have any of you done any burning of green conifers? Are there any particular methods you found effective? I need to have the trees destroyed by next April. The trees are 30 feet tall and 10-12 inches in diameter at the base.

Note: I can't afford a chipper.

[beenthere]

Where in the midwest are you? And who advises you to burn or chip?

Rules? Guidlines?

Are they plantations?

Just curious here.

[mahonda]

Whole tree yard to a landing process for pulp or post and pole, possibly firewood. Green brush burns very well if you get it going and keep it fed.

[Ianab]

Green brush burns very well if you get it going and keep it fed.

What he said.

I've burnt green pine tops to clean up after dropping some trees. The trick is to get a good hot fire going with some drier wood, so you have a hot base of embers. Then just keep stacking or pushing the branches and tops on the fire. You will get some smoke for sure, but the resin in the pine will keep it burning, and keep that hot bed of embers going under the fire. Just building a pile and trying to light it doesn't work unless it's really dry. You need get that heat in the base of the fire, and maintain it.

It also helps if the trees have been on the ground for a week or so. The green needles seem to draw a lot of moisture out quite quickly
and it burns better.

Ian

[woodtroll]

Which pine beetle?
"Where in the midwest are you? And who advises you to burn or chip?

Rules? Guidlines?

Are they plantations?

(Like Beenthere) Just curious here." Also.

Like the advise says build up a good fire then burn the green needle branches.
A drip torch works good, or a propane weed burner.

If you have any old pitch pine stumps or snags put them underneath.

[woodtroll]

Your subject line fits exactly a thread I was going to post this am.
It has to do with prescribed burning to reduce mountain pinebeetle.
I will give it a couple of days.

[bigsnowdog]

Where in the midwest are you? And who advises you to burn or chip?

Rules? Guidlines?

Are they plantations?

Just curious here.

I am in Iowa. The state's district foresters.

[beenthere]

bigsnowdog
Thanks for the location.

Can you tell us more? Being in IA, then planted pine plantations would be likely. When were they planted and what is the size you are removing? Some pics would help. How do you plan to remove the trees? Is there room to take the removed trees to a burn pile?

This on your land, or are you contracting to do the job for a customer? Is the treatment mandated by rule or suggested by the state district forester as the management is under his control?

??

[bigsnowdog]

bigsnowdog
Thanks for the location.

Can you tell us more? Being in IA, then planted pine plantations would be likely. When were they planted and what is the size you are removing? Some pics would help. How do you plan to remove the trees? Is there room to take the removed trees to a burn pile?

This on your land, or are you contracting to do the job for a customer? Is the treatment mandated by rule or suggested by the state district forester as the management is under his control?

??

They were planted in 1994, and measure roughly 30 feet tall and 10-12 inches diameter at the base. I have some room for a burn pile. I am doing it for myself; it is my reforestation project. It is not mandated by rule, but suggested by the state forester to prevent a devastating influx of pine beetles moving from the thinned stock to the live trees. He has no control over me by law or policy. It is all my decision.

[beenthere]

bigsnowdog
That is better that you are not being put upon or forced into this. Better to do what you are wanting to do.

Now, leads me to another question.
What are you reforesting? Changing species? Intermixing hardwoods? What is the 'end' goal?

[woodtroll]

I am still curious about the pine beetle they are worried about. I know the mountain pine beetle and it's life cycle. That is why I am curious about species.
Is there a pine beetle present?

[Texas Ranger]

I am also curious about the pine beetle, which one?  Life cycle of pine (bark?) beetles this time of year would be slow to none existent.  Also, which pine?  12 inch stems seem to be in the merchantable range, no market to move them?

Like I said, just curious, we have beetles down here that behave fairly uniform, and control is only a problem in extreme conditions.

"to prevent a devastating influx of pine beetles moving from the thinned stock to the live trees".

Is this the one your concerned about?    http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/trees/beetles/pine_shoot_beetle.htm

[SwampDonkey]

Burning will also take a lot of handling. If you stack it on the fire once, you'll stack it at least once more because the fire will burn a hole in the middle and the ends of the limbs will be left behind not burnt unless handled constantly.

[WDH]

In my opinion, that is like taking a teaspoon of seawater trying to lower sea level.

[inspectorwoody]

I can't help with your question(s) bigsnowdog, but I would like to Welcome you to the FF from another Iowa member.

You'll like it here. 

[bigsnowdog]

Somehow I am not being clear. I need to thin these trees as they are too close together. I can't just cut them and leave them lay as they will be prime habitat for pine beetles for a year. The beetle problem arrives as the wood decays. The wood creates an alcohol during the decay that draws the beetles. This is, I am told, in evidence all across the state. If I do my thinning then I will attract the beetles, which will then damage my good trees when the cut trees are no longer good habitat. So, I don't get the lower the ocean comment — it is off the mark.

The cut trees need to be either chipped or burned. If I do neither, I create the beetle problem which will likely devastate my planting.

I have sent a note to my district forester to get a species name for the beetle.

[bigsnowdog]

I can't help with your question(s) bigsnowdog, but I would like to Welcome you to the FF from another Iowa member.

You'll like it here. 

Thank you!

[WDH]

I was not trying to be offensive with my ocean comment.  Thousands and thousands of acres of pine trees are thinned each day, especially in the South.  The tops and limbs are not piled and burned to prevent pine beetle attack.  To pile and burn this residue would be a massive effort, therein, the ocean comment.  However, your situation may be different and the advice that you have been given may be sound.  

I have never heard of this before as a control for pine beetles unless the trees were already attacked and you were making a salvage cut.  Even with a salvage cut, the trees are felled, but are not piled and burned.  I think that you could be wasting your time doing this piling and burning to ward off pine beetles, but maybe pine trees in Iowa have different issues that I am not aware of.  Good luck with your project.

[bigsnowdog]

I am also curious about the pine beetle, which one?  Life cycle of pine (bark?) beetles this time of year would be slow to none existent.  Also, which pine?  12 inch stems seem to be in the merchantable range, no market to move them?

Like I said, just curious, we have beetles down here that behave fairly uniform, and control is only a problem in extreme conditions.

"to prevent a devastating influx of pine beetles moving from the thinned stock to the live trees".

Is this the one your concerned about?    http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/trees/beetles/pine_shoot_beetle.htm

There is no market here for the stems. I have not yet gotten an exact species name, but will receive an answer from my district forester later in the week.

[bigsnowdog]

I was not trying to be offensive with my ocean comment.  Thousands and thousands of acres of pine trees are thinned each day, especially in the South.  The tops and limbs are not piled and burned to prevent pine beetle attack.  To pile and burn this residue would be a massive effort, therein, the ocean comment.  However, your situation may be different and the advice that you have been given may be sound.  

I have never heard of this before as a control for pine beetles unless the trees were already attacked and you were making a salvage cut.  Even with a salvage cut, the trees are felled, but are not piled and burned.  I think that you could be wasting your time doing this piling and burning to ward off pine beetles, but maybe pine trees in Iowa have different issues that I am not aware of.  Good luck with your project.

I need to get the exact species name. Understand me, this is not work I seek for enjoyment, so if I can not burn them, then that would be great. You can rest assured I will press this issue, particularly given what you described about thinning.