What are exceptible prices for blocking

[3Dog]

I have an opportunity to cut some (100) 6x6x4 crane blocking out of White Oak.  I am looking for some information regarding current pricing others are using for this type of product.

The facts I have put together so far-

I believe that I would need a minimum of 14 inch diameter logs to saw 4 6x6's from.  I have a few of the logs onsite which I have minimal investment in (they were given to me free) I will have to obtain approx 13 additional logs which I have an opportunity to barder saw time for the logs (I am using a barter value of $300 for the logs).

I guestimate that I can saw the 6x6s by making 8 cuts per log, providing logs are straight. I have alloted 10 minutes for log loading/turning material removal etc per log. I do have Accuset and a forklift for moving timbers to increas efficent use of time. Each cut would be about 3 minutes calculated (cut, raise, return drop time). So I am assuming a total of  18 minutes cutting time plus 10 log handling time plus extimated log value of $300 as stated above.

So.. I have seen posts on blocking/timber pricing options on this forum ranging from$1.00 per brd/ft to actual lumber per board ft costs multiplied by the actual brd/ft per piece, in this case 12 brd/ft per block.  I am making less cuts making 6x6s than normal 4/4 so I think my price should reflect a reduction from my customary brd/ft costs BUT, I dont know if $12 per block is worth all of the hassle of dealing with big heavy pieces.

Long and short....any information/advise you all could give would be much appreciated!  I am located in Wisconsin if that makes any significant cost variable.  Thanks again for any help.

[beenthere]

3Dog
I'm curious how you get the 4 6x6 out of a 14" diam ?

[redbeard]

It might be worth doing just to get into the heavy equipment arena. It Could lead to trailer decking and dump truck side boards. I do Jobs like that because if I get searched and get the call, then its somthing that is hard to find and it always leads to future work. I think 15.00 each and try to get some sellable side lumber out of the logs. Iam like you its a side bussiness. I try to build up clients so someday I might be able to survive off the mill.

[buildthisfixthat]

sounds like a fun job in my opinion ...as far as price call 2 places that sell the blocks and knock 5.00 bucks off thair price ..cut the logs you have on hand first and delerver them if all goes well cut more  once you get a method of cutting the 4 foot logs should go nicely good luck

[3Dog]

Beenthere-  I was told that wane was acceptable on blocks.  I would assume to be safe I would actually increase the diameter of the logs I get.  I did the rough figuring last night while sitting in a municipal board meeting and didnt have access to the internet to type in and find the minimun diameter needed for the results Im looking for.  I just off the cuff used 2 6x6 back to back and......oops, I see my mistake now.  Crap, back to do some more ciphering.... thanks for pointing that out.

[beenthere]

Without any wane, and straight logs, the diameter would be at least the square root of 288, or about 17" (that would give a 12x12, that you will knock down to 6 x 6.

As you say, some wane is prolly allowed and you will need to know how much.

[WH_Conley]

Best cribbing is cut box heart. Getting 4 pieces out of one log will open up all the nasties a log has to offer. It can be done, just don't be surprised when you lose the whole log, all 4 pieces. A 10-12 inch log with a few side boards will offer better blocking. A 9 inch log will make a 6x6 if it is straight.  If cutting 4 foot pieces, cut 16 foot logs, use the side lumber for fencing or trailer decking, there is even a limited market for 12 foot fencing. I price it so the blocking pays the expenses and the side lumber is free. That way if I have to sit on it awhile it doesn't hurt. I have worked with the cranes a lot, wane is more acceptable than rot or pith splits on the inside. A 20 inch log will give you 5 acceptable pieces, 1 box heart and 4 with no heart, along with some 1x6 and 1x4's.

[Banjo picker]

I don't like to do any more math than is necessary...so I just click on the red tool box on the left of the screen...go to log size for cant...and fill in the blanks...presto answer..Tim

[Ron Wenrich]

I cut trailer loads of 5½x6x8' for 52¢/bf and we thought that was a great price.  Blocking in our area is going for about 38¢/bf.  We don't double end trim them at that price.  50 pieces of 8' would be in the 50¢/bf range.  Circle mill cutting grade.  We would be looking at material that would be tie quality and give a boxed heart.  That's the wholesale market.

[WH_Conley]

Ron, I have some retail customers that price depends on specs, and payment. Depending on grade and how long I have to wait on my money. The pieces are usually cut and put on a pallet, 60-90 days on the payment. Some customers pay on the spot, long pieces, not end trimmed. Prices will vary from 50 cents to 1.25 a foot. These are not trailer load lots, small orders.

[3Dog]

I appreciate all of the responses.  This site provides a wealth of knowledge from both current post and the fabulous archives.  I appreciate the information, humor and in some cases (Tom).....wisdom.  Thanks again.

[T Welsh]

3Dog, I am cutting crane cribbing right now out of Poplar (requested by owner) #1 butt logs in 16' and 18' lengths . 6"x6"x40"-80 count and 9"x4"x40"-160 count. I am not cutting to length he will do it. I will charge going rate for logs and an hourly rate for myself. that,s what was agreed upon. have not added it up yet,because he came and picked up the first load and liked what he saw and doubled the order. he knows that I am using $150 to $200 dollar logs but he is fine with it seeing how straight grained the cribbing turned out,he eyed the most part of the first load over said to me you under stand what we are using these for they are all mostly perfect,told him its from the quality of the logs and that,s what you are paying for! mind you this is the company we use for tree removals and he knows that we are not a big mill,so he is going to have to pony up for quality. this is a custom order that he knew we could do and he wanted the best he could get and price was NOT the issue. will let you know how this turns out. Tim 

[Ron Wenrich]

Just a side note.  The 5½x6s were used to support houses that they jacked up and moved.  Quality and uniform size were pretty important.  Best blocking price I ever got was $1.25/bf for some bridge timbers.  10x14x15. 

[Lambee10]

I don't like to do any more math than is necessary...so I just click on the red tool box on the left of the screen...go to log size for cant...and fill in the blanks...presto answer..Tim

OK- I am no Dick Tracy but I never noticed that tool box. Thanks for pointing that out!   

[customsawyer]

Before I would give your customer a price I would find out if he needs boxed heart or not.  The next question I would ask them is if they are looking for a better 6X6 or a better price. Take the answers to those two questions and then figure the price based on log cost and sawing rate.

[T Welsh]

Custom, Your right on the money when it comes to what your customer is looking for. You can market anything as long as you have the talent or can give a better product than the run of the mill stuff. this is what sets you apart from the other guy! In my case the owner of the crane company brought us a 4x4 and asked what type of wood this was, every body was guessing and weighing and smacking it. it came to me and I got a saw and cut the end off to see fresh wood. white,then yellow then greenish heartwood. Poplar! he then asked about cribbing for his cranes,he has 4 of them. Said yes,BUT you need it to be straight grained wood with no knots or defects and that only comes from butt logs and we showed him a log and the latest timber remittance slip from the last load out and he knew what he would have to pay for just the logs. we educated him on how things work in the wood trade. he is a very smart man and told us DO IT. came by to pick the first load up a was exactly what he wanted. it payed to educate him and take the time and show all that,s involved. he doubled his initial order Tim

[Cedarman]

Tim, you  are so right to make sure that you understand exactly what the customer wants.  From that you know exactly what it takes to satisfy that customer. From that you know how much you must have. That will either fit the customer's budget or it won't.  If not, then customer tries to find someone else or compromising begins. If one side ends up unsatisfied, then issues begin.

This forum is one of the best places to get the knowledge needed to give the customer the best advice possible and make the best decisions possible.

[customsawyer]

I think the point I was trying to make is that you can't give a price to the customer till you have all the details.
I never try to under sell any of my competitors as it will only end up with every one loosing. All the sawyers end up working for less and less money which makes them try to rush the job more. The customer loses as the quality goes down the more the sawyer rushes.   

[Kansas]

We cut a fair amount of 4x6 for one company. We get 55 a bd foot for it. Any species is acceptable. We use that order to get rid of logs we can't use for anything else. I would not try to fight blocking the heart for 4 foot mat pieces for a crane, except for the fact that eliminates the heart line. Depends on the log and how it yields. We get considerably more for just oak blocking.

[3Dog]

Thanks again for all of the responses and advice.  I can see I have made some mistakes already, not too shocking but, Im learning. 

[Ron Wenrich]

I've found that a lot of lumber buyers really don't know what they're doing.  I've seen specs come in that I know won't work for the type of material they spec and the type of job its supposed to do.  The best price I got for a piece of blocking is $5.25/bf delivered to NYC.  No one knew how to cut to their spec.  We deliver in a pick up truck, as its only 125 miles away.  That price has since dropped to $4.50/bf.  Not a big order, but highly profitable.

[paul case]

I need to move.
The best price I seem to be able to find for blocking, other than ties, is $.28/bdft. I give $.25 for logs so it wont work.
The better markets are out there,I just cant seem to get an in. A friend of mine supplies a couple hundred 3x4-10' a month at about $4.50 each.

PC

[dail_h]

I cut a lot of crib blocks for the mines here in WV.Price runs $300 / $350 per m in lengths from 18' to 8". Some want only white oak or hickory,,some will take anything. Cut mostly poplar, as thats what i can get cheapest here

[T Welsh]

Just got done second batch of 6x6,s and still have not met the ordered number yet! ran out of butt logs.

Mostly 6x6.s and then I was able to  get some 4x9,s

These are all butt logs and the grain runs straight with each crib. the good part for me is,I got a lot of extra misc. cuts that I can use around the mill for stacking ect. still have not come up with a price on these yet,have kept BF numbers and time sawing so far, but have not added anything up yet! Tim

[paul case]

I got a call this morning for soem heavy blocking. They are looking for 8 16''x16''-3' blocks. If I have logs to make them from they will be $1 bdft. PC

[Kansas]

I need to move.
The best price I seem to be able to find for blocking, other than ties, is $.28/bdft. I give $.25 for logs so it wont work.
The better markets are out there,I just cant seem to get an in. A friend of mine supplies a couple hundred 3x4-10' a month at about $4.50 each.

PC

Paul, just set the price where you make good money. They can take it or leave it. Sounds like you are plenty busy anyway. You don't walk into a Lowes and tell them what you are going to give for lumber. Don't let lumber brokers or buyers run over you. It can happen darned easy. Too many mills just assume when someone calls and says they can give a certain price for something, that is what you have to accept. Nada.

[T Welsh]

paul case, I base my price for logs at market value 16' butt poplar logs are going for 0.65 cents a bf. the sawing is by the hour. you did well on the deal .Kansas,I am not competing with other sawmills,this is custom and custom sells. Tim

[captain_crunch]

Come to Ore box stores sell lumber fer .35 per board fr or 350.00 per thousand Now I get 550.00 per thousand in round form on log truck

[Cedarman]

Captain, isn't your box store board foot smaller than our hardwood board foot?

[Kansas]

T Welch, absolutely correct. Its very difficult for the small guys to compete against the big guys, except with service and quality. You cannot, nor should you try, to compete against the big guys with price.