Notch depth and type on heavily leaning tree

[Jeff]

My mother in law has a 4 stemmed maple in her back yard that she has asked Tammy, to ask me, to come take down 3 of the trunks.  I recall seeing the tree, but have not looked at it close in a couple years I guess. As I remember, it's pretty good sized. Anyhow, 3 of the stems have a pretty good lean to them and I am worried about a possible barber chair situation.

Is it better in this situation to have a deeper notch, so you can get thorough the back cut quicker, or is it better to have a shallow, but wide notch.  Its pretty obvious what way the trees are going to go when they go down. Tammy was there this past week in the wind, and she said the ground was moving all around the tree as the leaners were being pushed. She sent me a couple photos via her cell phone. The photos make the tree actually look smaller than I remember it.

 

[Weekend_Sawyer]

 I'm not a pro so I will not reply with advice but will watch this thread with interest.

Jon

[Ianab]

Personally - Shallow notch, just enough to allow you to form a hinge, then bore cut it.


I wont repeat all the discussion that was in this thread but it's got diagrams and all.
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,22582.0.html

Trying to "race" a conventional cut just leaves you open to a barberchair where the tree splits apart as it falls, and things get ugly real fast when that happens.

Ian

[T Welsh]

Small directional notch, enough to get it in the area intended. and bore cut it and then release the back strap. keep a healthy strap, say about 3". they look like good leaner,s and are maple. if you try to do it with a regular felling cut it will start splitting and try to barber chair on you as you are cutting the back cut and that,s not fun. I,m with Ianab! Tim

[snowstorm]

what he said

[Jeff]

We may go over tomorrow. I've not committed to cutting it, as I don't know what else is in the vicinity. I'm not taking on anything that should involve an expert.

[bill m]

So far all of these replies are right on. Open face notch just deep enough to get a hinge width of about 80% of the DBH. Then bore cut to form the hinge and cut to the back of the tree leaving a strap to hold it from falling till you are ready. Be aware that a heavy leaner will fall very fast when you cut the strap and you will not have a lot of time to make a safe retreat as it falls, so make sure there are no widow makers that could be dislodged as the tree starts to fall or any other hazards you can identify.

[Ianab]

Only real questions are "are you confident" doing the bore cutting? Or do you want to practise it on some less critical trees first?

And what's in the general vicinity is probably the most important. You don't have much option as to what direction it's going to fall. If there is something in the way, then it's probably going to have to come down in pieces.

Ian

[T Welsh]

What Ianab said. words of wisdom, he must know from having played with bore cuts. but the most important thing is what is in its way of being damaged if all goes wrong Tim

[Jeff]

I've done some bore cutting, so I've got no reservations about that. I have been told there is a bird feeder in the way that can be moved, that there is some bushes that can be sacrificed, and that the tree tops will reach into the neighbors back yard, and they have no issue with that.  I need to look at it all for myself.   These trees will be firewood, so it's not like I am going to potentially mess up some logs.

My other reservation is, how close the 3 trunks are to each other, and how their individual tops are related.  A guy has to have room to get his saw in to make the cuts, but depending on how the tops are entwined, you might be forced to take one down before the other, and if that one happens to be the middle one, then things might get sticky.  Like I said, I'm not committing to anything other than looking it over to begin with.

[submarinesailor]

I would consider putting a heavy strap around it just above the notch.  If course keeping it out of the way.

Bruce

[madmari]

Those trees look like classic bore cut canidates.
I like to use a shallow (1/4 tree diameter) facecut, very open (70 degrees) and leave a meaty back strap. The barberchairs seem to eminate from the tree center usually and the bore cut will have already severed the heart.  Accuracy counts- slow is fast in this case.
   Cut a bunch of those today, only red oak. It's a slick way to safely drop those trees.

Be safe 

[John Mc]

This kind of situation is exactly what a bore cut is most suited for. Barber chair tends to happen on a heavy front leaner because the tree starts to fall "too soon" -- that is before you have the hinge set to the thickness you want. By bore cutting, you get the hinge all set up before the tree goes. Then, when you are ready, cut the holding wood in back.

With a properly done bore cut, there will be no need for a strap wrapped around the trunk. No barber chair because the hinge is not thick enough to cause the trunk to split on the way down.

John Mc

[DonT]

I agree with the advice given so far,strapping the tree with a ratchet strap is something i do regularily.Open face notch and bore cut looks like it would work,another option is the Coo"s Bay, but directional control is lost.Just from what I see in the pics you might get the top trying to roll out from the other stems,rolling the butt towards the cutter.If you want to measure where the top of the tree will land,cut a stick about 4ft long,hold it against your shoulder and measure to the end of your extended finger,grasp the stick at this point,hold the stick upright with your arm held straight out in front of you, now face the tree point your hand at the base of the tree,walk backwards until you can line up the top of the tree with the top of the stick.This is where the top of the tree will reach.A better explanation can be found in jeff Jepsons book,it is called the "stick trick" based on the Pathageran(sp) theory finding the length of an unknown side of a triangle,I think it is Asquared is equal to Bsquared is =C squared

[LeeB]

a squared +b squared = c squared.

[Reddog]

Shallow notch with a bore cut. Or Coo's bay.

[WH_Conley]

What is a "Coo's Bay"? I probably have seen it under a different name.

[zopi]

Yeah...bore cut..wide notch, and shallow..I will often make the bore cut at a downward angle to towards the hinge...that way if the trunk decides to split anyway I have a chance to get gone, and maybe still control the release of the tree...
My preference with these though, is to go up, either climbing or in the bicket and knock out as much weight from the tops as possible...right down to the trunk if I can arrange it..then just lop off the trunks...
Had a hackberry partially barberchair on me this week...no indications of stress in the tree...the little bugger just let go...hard enough to shut the saw down and send it back out of the backcut...nearly got me. Good thing it was fairly small...

[Kevin]

What is a "Coo's Bay"?

The Coos Bay is only used on heavy head leaners, it has no directional control.
You cut the wood away from both sides of the tree leaving a strip of wood down the center and inline with the fall.
Start cutting the strip from the back towards the front and the tree falls towards the lean.

[Banjo picker]

Is there a formula for how much wood to leave in the hinge, and do you get a lot of tear out from that....?  Tim