Author Topic: A walnut veneer log (Read 1579 times)

whitepe · « **on:** October 04, 2011, 10:00:00 am »

I had a guy stop by my place the other day and was asking about buying a walnut tree (definitely veneer quality) in the woods behind my house. Turns out about 5 years ago he had logged off several trees on the property next to me and had spotted
the tree back then. We won't go into the fact that he had to walk onto my property to see it and was trespassing but that's another matter. He looked familiar and when he introduced himself that's when I remembered he had spoken at the Peoria County SWCD forestry days in Sept 2010 when I took my LT15 to that event for a sawing demonstration. I figure that this tree is pretty valuable or he wouldn't be going out of his way to get just one tree. It turns out that he is doing some logging on my friend Jerry Wyatt's place about 3 miles away. Jerry is president of Peoria County SWCD. Anyway... How do I make sure that I get a fair value for the tree? He also said something about a 4% felling fee which I assume is standard practice. He also said he would drag the tops out of the woods so I could saw them on my LT15. My goal is I want to be fair to both of us. I know he needs to make an honest living and I don't want to just give the tree away. Several years ago, Jeff and Tammy stayed here one night and we walked around my woods and Jeff said he saw several veneer quality red and white oak trees too. I am somewhat embarrassed cause I thought all of my trees were red oak, white oak and ash and I didn't know I had a nice walnut tree. The tree is 24" dbh but the main trunk splits into two smaller sections about 12 feet off the ground. I am guessing those sections are about 18-20 inches in diameter and probably about 15-20 feet long. Then of course there are the smaller tops that he doesn't want but oughta be nice
for my LT15. I know the LT15 can saw up to 28 inch diameter but it's just too arduous to wrestle with turning something bigger than 20 inch on the LT15 without someone else to help. All of the 24 inch logs I have cut in the past are oak and I saw them in half while on the mill and off load half the log and then half the halves again to get more manageable sections. (the real truth to the matter is that I should stop being such a cheap skate and upgrade to an LT40HD) Sparks should like that :-)

Kevin · « **Reply #1 on:** October 04, 2011, 06:32:26 pm »

If he wants your tree to make money you should ask a little more for it or cut and sell it yourself .
If you only have one, you might consider keeping it and taking care of it.

paul case · « **Reply #2 on:** October 04, 2011, 07:09:11 pm »

walnut trees are easy to spot this time of year. they either have walnuts on them or on the ground around them.

around here i would cut 1 or 100 walnut trees for 1/2. your area may be different. pc

T Welsh · « **Reply #3 on:** October 04, 2011, 07:42:40 pm »

whitepe, check in the sawmill section of the forum and find $700.00 Walnut log. I just sold this one,so judge from there where your tree falls in. a 16'/ 18" to 20" small end log will scale out in the range of 200bf. as weather its veneer or not you should be able to get about $1.00bf @ the mill. veneer about 1/2 to 3/4 of that more! its all about quality,ring tightness,color,how much sapwood ect. remember that is trucked to the mill,you as the owner of one tree gives you a lot of options! if you want fair, ask him for half the price of the log scaled from the timber remittance slip issued at the mill. we get into these issues with landowners from time to time and I say I will split it with you,you own the tree vs we do the take down and removal and load and truck it to the mill. or I leave it sit.your choice! sounds like you are on the right track by saying you want to be fair. put your foot into the other mans shoe and think as he would and then follow your gut instinct. hope this helps!! Tim

whitepe · « **Reply #4 on:** October 04, 2011, 09:13:02 pm »

great advice from everyone. keeping the tree puts it at risk, I have more than my share of trees that have been struck by lightning. The tree is located at the top of a crest along a big gully that's about 75 feet deep. It's gonna take a little more horsepower than my little bitty utility tractor to horse it up out of the gully. The buyer said 60% for me... 40% for him less the 4% cutting fee. Not sure how all of that works. Sounds like 56% to me 44% to him. Too complicated. The guy kept down playing things like it may be bad inside and I suppose it could be. But the tree looks
pretty pristine and like I said, if he is after just one tree. I figure it's gotta be a keeper. I never got around to getting a picture taken before dark. I will be sure to get one taken tomorrow. On the joking side, don't anyone get any ideas about coming around to take my tree. I work at home all day, and I do have a Smith & Wesson :-)

Autocar · « **Reply #5 on:** October 04, 2011, 09:15:19 pm »

Iam dealing on a job right now with six walnut veneer logs. The biggest is 22 inch and 16 feet long I put two grand on that tree and the gentelman thinks it should be worth more. Like I told him any body can tell ya it's worth x amount when they figure your not going to let it go in the first place plus if it cuts with bird peck your up the creek with out a paddle ! Iam a place in my life I refuse to work for nothing, let them stand as far as I am concerened. This bussiness Ive loved for years but seems like it's not as in joyable as it once was. On Monday I topped my tri axle fuel tank off and I looked at the pump it was at twenty gallions and was $75.00 needless to say I was in a bad mood and it hasn't worn off yet. O by the way I pumped another two hundred bucks into it. I don't see how the bigger contractors make a go of it.

whitepe · « **Reply #6 on:** October 04, 2011, 09:44:49 pm »

this reminds me of a walnut tree I was offered by my neighbor about 6 or 7 years ago. it was about 24 " dbh, not a limb for about 40 feet and it was offered for free if I take it down. problem was, side 1, 10 feet from house, side 2, 10 feet from deck of the back of the house, side 3, the 500 gallon propane tank about 30-40 feet away, and side 4, the septic system filter bed. Later I found out that this gal was a "black widow spider". A real looker, would marry a rich victim, and then a year or two later take him to the cleaner's in divorce court. Her reputation preceeded herself. I ran as far away from this tree deal as fast as I could. I was not licensed or bonded. She tried to tell me oh it's okay if you damage my house my insurance will take care of it. Right , I thought and I am the tooth fairy too!

craigc · « **Reply #7 on:** October 04, 2011, 10:09:33 pm »

I am assuming you are located in Peoria,Il if so the 4% fee is for the Illinois Timber Tax. Just a heads up Red Oak in Illinois has a hard time being veneer we have to much mineral in the wood. My suggestion would be to call the Conservation Officers in your area and ask them if the guy that is approaching you has a good rep and go from there.

asca65290 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 05, 2011, 12:50:28 am »

My land is not very from you in west-central Illinois. We sold about 16 primarily veneer quality Black Walnut trees around the size you are looking at and we averaged about $500 per tree. The best tree was about 32" DBH and it went for $1,200. So I would say if you are in the $400 to $600 price range you are getting a fair deal. The 4% is the Illinois Harvest Fee, which is applicable to all timber sales. Take a look at the link below to read more about it.

http://dnr.state.il.us/conservation/forestry/IFDA/

whitepe · « **Reply #9 on:** October 05, 2011, 02:01:31 am »

craigc, I figure he must have a pretty good reputation because back in Sept 2010, the Peoria County SWCD brought him in to speak at the Forestry Days. asca65290, he mentioned he thought it would be in the neighborhood of $600 for the tree so it's on par with your numbers. He is listed on the PDF file I found of licensed Illinois timber buyers.

Kansas · « **Reply #10 on:** October 05, 2011, 03:55:24 am »

Whatever you do, unless you know how to cut a veneer walnut, do not under any circumstances cut it yourself. There is no V notching a veneer walnut. Its a specialized cut, and you go down until you find where the roots splay out. We went down as much as 6 ft on a few where a tree was along a creek and the creek had flooded over the years. The slightest slipup can take a 1000 dollar tree and make it worth a 100.

Why in the world would they charge a timber tax?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #11 on:** October 05, 2011, 04:56:02 am »

I would assume the tax, is a levy to pay a salary. Around here the logger pays the levy, or who ever is in the business of cutting timber, not the landowner who is selling the wood. Levies here go to operate the Forest Products Marketing Board system and is less than 3%.

whitepe · « **Reply #12 on:** October 05, 2011, 01:29:29 pm »

Ok.. I took pictures of the walnut tree over lunch and uploaded them with the java uploader. I still have bruises from the oak 2 x 4 that Jeff beat me with for putting facebook links in earlier posts

There's a leaf rake leaning against the tree for size comparison purposes

SwampDonkey edited your photo links.

beenthere · « **Reply #13 on:** October 05, 2011, 01:37:48 pm »

Quote from: whitepe on October 05, 2011, 01:29:29 pm

Ok.. I took pictures of the walnut tree over lunch and uploaded them with the java uploader. I still have bruises from the oak 2 x 4 that Jeff beat me with for putting facebook links in earlier posts
There's a leaf rake leaning against the tree for size comparison purposes

IMG] http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10265/3740/DSC_1026.jpg [/IMG]

IMG] http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10265/3740/DSC_1027.jpg [/IMG]

IMG] http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10265/3740/DSC_1028.jpg [/IMG]

You left a beginning bracket off each one, so they didn't post. Try using the Preview button to check out how your post will present itself, then you can make the edit corrections. Now, if you go to "modify" you can add the brackets.

Doesn't look like veneer quality from the form and bark characteristics, but not the one coming up with the money.

And bruises will heal.

Kansas · « **Reply #14 on:** October 05, 2011, 02:30:20 pm »

Its hard to say without looking at all sides.. It could be veneer. Probably wont be a high grade veneer. If it was a little straighter, that would sure help. My guess is from the rake it would be close to 13 or 14 ft long. Kind of looks like the roots are starting to spread out at ground level, but it sure would help if you could get another foot or two on that bottom log.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #15 on:** October 05, 2011, 02:37:20 pm »

I don't see what your log buyer sees either. I see a fair bit of sweep in the but log. What else is he going to cut on the way into that tree? Those woods look thick with much younger growth.

Personally, and this is just me, but if I had a stand of woods with a species that isn't that abundant on it, I would let it stand. A few bucks isn't worth removing the last remnant of a species I might not have growing anywhere else. Even if it's not a rare species, diversity of species is always a good way of not having all the eggs in one basket.

chevytaHOE5674 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 05, 2011, 03:28:49 pm »

Never bought walnut veneer before. But that sure doesn't look like a high grade veneer log to me. Got a lot of sweep at the but and then that fork will have double heart and possible bark for a ways back down towards the stump.

I agree with SD, if its the only big walnut around leave it for a seed source for the future.

whitepe · « **Reply #17 on:** October 05, 2011, 03:30:59 pm »

yea.. I hate the cut / paste... screws up when you miss one character... had to do it quick and get back to work. I am obviously not the timber buyer so just repeating what he was saying. All I know is he was salivating all over the place about wanting to buy the tree. Good thing there was a creek bed nearby for his saliva to drain into. Any timber owner is between the rock and a hard place, when do you harvest vs. how long do you wait? Bibby didn't have a choice many years ago as he had many trees wiped out by the flood. What I do know is for some reason all of those dang trees
seem to have lightning magnets in them. My neighbor has lost several trees to lightning damage and so have I. So, as saying goes, "You pays your money and you take your chances" Step right up and win this cupie doll.

One of my neighbor's walnut trees makes this tree look like a sapling and they are harvesting root ball and all but just on one tree.

whitepe · « **Reply #18 on:** October 05, 2011, 03:35:27 pm »

a while back I had a post about my father in law's stand of walnut trees. I posted a picture of him standing next to one. perfectly straight about 22 dbh. Not a branch for 50 feet. The kool thing was when he said that he planted them all in 1957.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #19 on:** October 05, 2011, 04:01:12 pm »

You must be real unlucky with lightning storms. I live on the peak of a ridge and have several old yard trees 70 feet tall. We get a lot of thunderstorms in the summer it seems and sometimes in the winter a crack or two on a cold front after a mild spell. I've seen lighting strike and sound off like a canon, but never has lightning ever struck a yard tree here since I've lived here over 40 years. I have seen where lightning took out a wooden power pole once and set a round bale of hay on fire once to.

whitepe · « **Reply #20 on:** October 05, 2011, 05:40:41 pm »

Nope... It's the midwest... different weather patterns than NB. I am just glad I am not in Oklahoma or Florida. those states are crazy with lightning.

tjdub · « **Reply #21 on:** October 05, 2011, 05:44:11 pm »

I don't know what it is about black walnut, but they do seem more prone to lightning strikes than any other tree. I'm guessing it has something to do with their bark when it's wet making a solid nice circuit of water down to the ground. Anyway, I can think of about a dozen lightning damaged trees in my area and almost all are walnuts. It's still pretty darn unlikely that any one individual tree is going to be hit though, and if it is hit, I'm not sure it would ruin the log since the damage is all on the bark. You would just have to cut the tree down soon after it was hit because it won't heal well (or at all).

beenthere · « **Reply #22 on:** October 05, 2011, 05:56:13 pm »

Almost all of my tallest trees are walnut on the east slope of a ridge, and none have been struck by lightning in the 45 years I've been here. An elm and a couple shagbark hickory trees were hit in that time. But I'm not suggesting not to cut the walnut, as you seem destined to get it gone.

I'd be interested in the growth rate of the 22" DBH tree that was just planted in 1957. That is pretty fast grown. Was it cut down? Was it in a draw (alluvial soil) or on a slope?

Autocar · « **Reply #23 on:** October 05, 2011, 07:23:16 pm »

The way the limbs V your have to be very careful when its cut or it could split pretty easy if it hits wrong .

chevytaHOE5674 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 05, 2011, 09:36:40 pm »

Quote from: tjdub on October 05, 2011, 05:44:11 pm

I'm not sure it would ruin the log since the damage is all on the bark.

Often times lightning will split the tree in a spiral from the top to the bottom. Thus rendering it useless for a peeler veneer log.

Quote from: Autocar on October 05, 2011, 07:23:16 pm

The way the limbs V your have to be very careful when its cut or it could split pretty easy if it hits wrong .

Very true if it lands wrong (or sometimes even the best landing) the limbs will "clap" together and split the log. If that tree was part of a larger timbersale where the crew had a feller buncher I would suggesting cutting both limbs off first and then dropping the trunk separately.

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Author Topic: A walnut veneer log (Read 1579 times)