Boring cut questions

[joejkd]

Hello all, first post here. New to tree felling, just bought a house with a wood stove so started harvesting next year's wood on my land.

I've felled 2 trees so far, one a 30" wide maple and the other a 22# pine, but both didn't have tops on them (the tops were windthrown in hurricane Irene). They were good practice, but each was only about 15-20 foot tall and, to be honest, I made a ton of mistakes on each one.

I've improved my saw technique quite a bit, and have practiced the boring cut on some deadfall. I've gotten quite good with it, and wanted to use the technique to fell my next tree.

However, though there are many resources on the internet for this technique, the information seems conflicted. Here are the questions I needed clarified:

1.) On the actual boring cut, should the cut be "stepped" or an inch or two above the hinge, or should it be the same level as the hinge?

2.) When releasing the holding wood, do you cut down at an angle to meet the bore slot, straight through, or 1/2 inch below the slot? I've read it done all 3 ways. If you saw below  the slot, how do you know when to stop if the strap isn't breaking and it's time to wedge over instead?

3.) Can you use a boring cut on a back leaner?

Finally, off the topic of boring cuts, how do you aim your saw when notching? I have trouble avoiding bypass sometimes.

[beenthere]

Welcome to the forum.
Good questions.

#1  The boring cut, being part of the back cut, can be slightly above the hinge, but don't need more than an inch. Just avoid being lower.

#2  Releasing the holding wood depends a lot on how the tree is sitting, or how the holding wood is "holding". If in tension, then just cut it. If in compression, then be sure to have two wedges in place so the saw doesn't get caught and the tree doesn't set down on you. Much easier to place the wedges than have to try to get the tree back up. Don't wait to put the wedges in place, as "too late" is wasted time.

#3  Yes you can use it, and I do. But I make sure there is a place to put the wedge (s). Sometimes will make a bore cut perpendicular to the hinge at the back side just to get a wedge started. Then place two more wedges on each side to assist raising the tree when ready.

Finally... aim as in most things comes with practice.

[mad murdock]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum JoeJkd.  As for the questions on the boring cut technique, I have used it only rarely, as most of the trees I have cut were small enough to not have to use it to get the reach, I did use it on some large White pine many years back, (48" + dia.) and it worked well.  My cutting involves cutting logs for grade sawlogs, or veneer, so I use a reverse notch 95% of the time, (keeps the butt cuts to a minimum loss of $$).  You will have more control over the tree if you have your back-cut at least an inch above the notch plane, If you have a bar that is big enough to reach across the diameter of the trunk at cutting height, you will have more control over the tree if you do not cut out the center proir to making your back-cut.  Using felling wedges is highly recommended as this really gives you the maximum control over the felling process. Be carefull with leaners, makes sure you are aware of the soundness of the tree, (hollow center, rot, shake, etc).  A barber chair can do you in real quick.  Above all don't get in a hurry,  think ahead, have a clear escape route, and use a brain bucket!

[Kevin]

1.) On the actual boring cut, should the cut be "stepped" or an inch or two above the hinge, or should it be the same level as the hinge?

The boring cut is actually the felling cut and should be made at the top of the hinge with a step above the apex which is called stump shot.

2.) When releasing the holding wood, do you cut down at an angle to meet the bore slot, straight through, or 1/2 inch below the slot? I've read it done all 3 ways. If you saw below  the slot, how do you know when to stop if the strap isn't breaking and it's time to wedge over instead?

You would cut just below the boring cut straight through
If it doesn't trip then you shouldn't have bored it or should have used wedges prior to tripping it.

3.) Can you use a boring cut on a back leaner?
No, boring cuts are used on head leaners to reduce the tension

Finally, off the topic of boring cuts, how do you aim your saw when notching? I have trouble avoiding bypass sometimes.

Use the gunning sights on your saw to line up the face.

[joejkd]

Whoa you guys are fast!

Ok, wedges it is, with a stepped bore, and a backstrap cut below the slot. Got it.

What is the safest cut for a backleaner? I've got 2 in my lot that are leaning towards other trees and need a good technique to drop them. I'm not a pro so speed isn't an issue for me.

Also, I don't have trouble getting the notch facing in the right direction. I have a saw with no sights but I'm pretty good at getting them on the right facing. What I have trouble with is meeting the bottom cut with the top cut.

[Kevin]

What notch are you cutting?

For back leaners you can wedge them over or pull them with a rope.

[mad murdock]

Thanks Kevin for your precise clarification!  I never learnt the proper terms for all the cuts, just learned how to do them and get wood on the ground with maximum safety and minimum value loss in the logs.  I guess in my prior post I was thinking "plunge" cut technique.  

[beenthere]

joejkd
What saw are you using? Most saws, if not all, have the gunning sight built in. You just may not recognize it and could find it handy.

It might be a line on the top of the saw, and it might be the top handle.

[zopi]

If I have an off axis leaner, I put a rope on it...as policy...but then, I remove alot of trees around peoples houses and expensive toys...sooo...
Norwood has a neat little falling jack for pushing trees over...stick it in the ground and up against the trunk...jack the tree over...never used one though...

[joejkd]

I'm using an open face notch, top cut at about 60-70 degrees, and coming up from the bottom 10-20 degrees, so I end up with a 70-90 degree notch

I've got a homelite 18" 42cc (don't know the model number but I just bought it).

[Kevin]

Making that bottom cut is tricky and you will get better with practice.
Just line the top of the bar up to meet the top cut and do the best you can, don't cut too deep and you can always clean it up until you get good at it.

[madmari]

I use the bore cut alot, mostly on heavy leaners. On back leans, I plunge through the back of the tree into the face cut. This will leave you with two hinges- one on each side of the plunge you just made.Put a wedge in the plunge cut, smack it home and carefully cut both sides seperatly, using the wedge as you go between sides. This allows very accurate hinge depth.  If the tree does not go over after cutting both sides, get on the wedge some more and you'll see results.
  If the wood is rotten, hollow or otherwise bad, I'd use a snatch block and come- along . Slow but sure.

  Found that the secret to accurate, safe felling is take your time, be accurate the first time and use a very sharp saw.

 Be safe and good luck!

[thecfarm]

joejkd,Welcome to the forum. Cutting trees with no tops are harder to fall. No limbs to help the tree fall over.

[joejkd]

Great you guys a super helpful. I'll be heading into the woods again this weekend, I'll post some pics of what I do. I'm going to get me some good felling wedges tomorrow for starters

[thecfarm]

By the way,do you have chaps,hard hat,eye protection too?

[joejkd]

i have a hard hat and eye protection. I need steel-toe boots and chaps next

[John Mc]

joejkd -

One thing that can help with the notch cuts is to do the top cut first. You can then sight down that cut while making your bottom cut, and see when the bar approaches the plane of your top cut, helping to avoid bypassing the top cut.

The main thing is, keep practicing. After a while, you'll develop a better eye and feel for how things are going, and where the end of your bar is.

If you get a chance, you might want to look in to some chainsaw training. Around my area, the "Game of Logging" training is pretty highly thought of. There are probably other methods, but if you are into the bore cutting techniques, that's something GOL really focusses on.

What part of the country are you from? (you might want to fill out your profile when you get a chance).

John Mc

[Kevin]

On back leans, I plunge through the back of the tree into the face cut

Does that create a problem for stacking your wedges when one isn't enough?

[madmari]

Yes, it does. On large diameter  trees I might use 2 or three wedges, next to each other, I have some"high lift" wedges for the real challengers. They are prone to kicking out on frozen wood.
  Best practice, IMO, is if possible let the tree fall where it wants to. Saves time in the long run to buck and skid than have a tree spin off a hinge, pinch bars, hang up or worse get YOU. Understand that some times this is not and option, but if your little voice is nervous let the tree stand and move along. After more practice, the tree may not seem so intimidating.

[John Mc]

I sometimes use a bore cut on back leaners. The same holding wood that keeps a front leaner from falling until you are ready can also support a back leaner while you are putting a wedge in the saw kerf. When doing this on a back leaner, I'll usually off-set the holding wood a bit to one side, rather than leaving it straight back from the center of the hinge. This leaves a good place to but the wedge.

I only carry two wedges with me. For moderate back leaners, one wedge is enough. For heavy back leaners, I'll cut a cookie not quite as thick as the thick end of the wedge. I drive in the first wedge, then put in the cookie in the kerf next to the first wedge and drive my second wedge in on top of the cookie. If that hasn't driven the tree over, it has at least released the first wedge. I now have a bigger gap, put in a thicker cookie, and drive the first wedge back in.

I've found the wedge on top of a cookie works better for me than trying to stack wedges (they want to spit back out) or carrying a thicker wedge around that I don't use all that much. I've gone back and forth with the wedges and thicker cookies several times on one tree. The most I've ever done is about a 3.5 or 4" cookie to help drive over a 23" black walnut with a lot of back lean.

John Mc

[John Mc]

  Best practice, IMO, is if possible let the tree fall where it wants to. Saves time in the long run to buck and skid than have a tree spin off a hinge, pinch bars, hang up or worse get YOU.

The problem for me when letting the tree fall where it wants to is that often this can really complicate skidding the tree out efficiently, and without causing residual stand damage. Often, the direction of felling is chosen because I want to avoid certain trees on the way down, or I want it to end up pointing in a good direction for skidding it without barking up other trees on the way out.

If I'm cutting firewood, I may tend to go more with the direction it wants to fall, since I can always section the log up into shorter pieces if skidding a long log will cause a problem (I suppose if I were feeding a firewood processor and making a living at this, rather than feeding my little splitter, I'd be more inclined to fell in a direction that lets me keep longer lengths... It might give me better efficiency on the processor.)

I guess my point in all this for the O.P. is that the techniques you use can vary with the tree you are cutting, what you intend to do with it once it's down, the equipment available, and your own skills and comfort level. The more you do this, the more you develop a feel for what will work. Taking some time to expand your skills through practice, finding a more experienced feller to give you tips, or taking a course in it, the more "tools" you have to deal with different situations. The most important thing you can learn is your own limitations -- know when to say "this one is too much for me or the equipment I have available... I'm going to need help". The more you do it, the more of these situations you'll find you can handle on your own.

John Mc

[Kevin]

This video is a case where it would have helped to bore the tree, leave the back strap,  wedge,  trip the strap and then wedge it over.
Watch the tree in the center, it tips back after the cut due to being limb heavy on the back.
When this happens and the felling cut closes you can bore straight back into the cut (perpendicular) and drive your wedge in to lift the tree.

You can save a lot of time and effort if you take a good look at the tree and determine the best way to cut it.

[joejkd]

I live in Foster, RI and I'd love to get training because I enjoy doing this. Anywhere in RI or eastern CT would be good for training. Off to fill out my profile now!

I believe GOL is Tim Ard's organization, right? I was going to pick up his e-book, I learned alot from his website already.

On the backleaner with an offset strap, do you still trip the strap 1/2 inch below the bore slot or do you go straight through the strap?

[Kevin]

The reason you trip the strap below is to eliminate a saw snatcher.
If you cut above or at the same level there is a chance the wood in the strap will snap off below the bar and the tree will take the saw out of your hands as it leaves the stump.

[joejkd]

Ahh ok I hadn't realized that was the reason. Makes sense. Is it safe or effective to wedge in such a cut though? Or should you wedge in the sides of the slot?

[jander3]

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,33283.msg666590.html#msg666590

[timbuck2]

On Big hardwood ya gotta bore out a bit to avoid knockin yer head off, but for your average day get a 70-80cc saw with bar enough.

[John Mc]

GOL is not Tim Ard's organization, but the systems the two organizations teach are similar.

You can see the Game of Logging's web site at www.gameoflogging.com. The training organization page will show contact info for the various training organizations who teach GOL classes. My only direct experience has been with Northeast Woodland Training (www.woodlandtraining.com). They do a lot of classes in the VT & NH area, and also travel to other areas. I highly recommend them. I've also heard good things about some of GOL's other training organizations, but have no personal experience with them.

John Mc

[Kevin]

Ahh ok I hadn't realized that was the reason. Makes sense. Is it safe or effective to wedge in such a cut though? Or should you wedge in the sides of the slot?

joejkd;
You really want to wedge as far back as you can.
The wedge will keep the tree from falling back when you cut the strap.
Where you'll run into trouble will be on smaller diameter trees where you run out of wedging room.
One real danger is having something like a hanger (dead branch) fall out and hit you or having a rotten top break off when it hits another tree as the tree you're cutting falls.

[John Mc]

... One real danger is having something like a hanger (dead branch) fall out and hit you or having a rotten top break off when it hits another tree as the tree you're cutting falls.

Those dead branches can be a problem when you are hammering in a wedge as well. You never know when they'll let go. Important to always look up and assess these types of risks before you start cutting.

[Larry]

I took GOL, gee a really long time ago from the originator, Soren Erickson.  Every tree the class cut was bored and it didn’t matter which way it was leaning.  Back leaners, we just swung the saw around to the safest side as the bore was made.

Wedge placement was part of the class.  Close to the hinge provides great lift but little power...can also break the hinge.  Wedge opposite the hinge provides little lift but has lots of power.  Combination may be a work...stacking wedges may be needed at times.

Over the years experience has improved my technique.  Soren always said after a tree goes down take a few minutes to analyze what went right and what improvements are needed.  And always aim the tree...the more practice the better the shot.

Some suggestions on this thread are good but I question others.  They may work great for the poster but not so good for the beginner reading this thread.

Take that GOL and you will never regret it...I can’t even remember how much it cost way back then.

[John Mc]

Around here, GOL is up around $150 or $160 for an all-day class.

And Larry's post reminds me... stacking a wedge on top of a cookie (as I mentioned in a previous post) was not something they got into in the first class. Dealing with more severe back lean was in level two or 3. That's where the "learning your limits" part comes in. I had very little experience with a chainsaw before taking GOL level 1. I would not have been attempting some fo the tougher trees until I got more experience and more training under my belt.

[joejkd]

are there any classes in new england?

[John Mc]

Northeast Woodland training, as I mentioned in an earlier post is very good.

Check out their calendar of upcoming classes at http://www.woodlandtraining.com/courses.php. Some may be restricted to students of the sponsoring company. I know the ones in Huntington VT and Bristol Vermont are open (and coming up very soon). Others may be open as well.

For other GOL training organizations (some are in New England) check the web site I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread

[joejkd]

Well Fellas....it's time. Got my next victim for this weekend.

I've got a 70 ft. tall pine (used a stick to measure like we used to in Boy Scouts)with about 4ft. of back lean from the direction of fall. Tree is roughly (used a metal tape measure) 10" DBH, with very little side lean.

Here's what I'm thinking:
1.) Cut an open face notch 90 degrees 8 inches long
2.) Bore cut accross the back to set up a 1 inch hinge and leave a 2 thick and wide strap
3.) Snug in a wedge through the bore slot (so it will be at a right angle to the fall line)
4.) If there's room laterally, add another wedge to the other side
5.) Cut 1/2 inch below the slot  until the tree falls or the bore slot is bypassed
6.) If the trees still up, knock in the wedge/s


Look solid?

[beenthere]

I'm not sure just exactly what you said so won't comment or critique your procedure.

I'd only say, go ahead but don't trust it to not fall toward the lean. If that is real critical, then put a rope on it to pull in the direction it has to fall. If falling wrong is not a risk then give it a shot.

The diameter of this tree is small, and extra care is needed for the small ones, IMO. There is not a lot of area in the cross-section to make proper cuts and still have good room for placing wedges for good control. A 20" tree is much easier. So plan carefully. Does sound like you are getting the right idea.

[joejkd]

I'm having trouble uploading images, so here's a link to an image I made showing what I'm talking about.
I posted this one, you can't post picture links in this forum or they'll be deleted.



I don't have much experience using a rope, but I did use a come-along last week to help pull a hung up tree down from the butt.

I'm not sure how to get the rope or cable high enough in the tree to have any decent leverage, but I wouldn't mind learning for a little extra insurance.

[Kevin]

This is how I would set it up for a smaller tree.



For a larger tree I'd use a standard felling cut and back up the bar with wedges advancing the wedges as the bar gets deeper into the cut.

[joejkd]

Hmmm...I think I like your way better Kevin.

I seen it done the way I had posted it, but it seems odd the wedges are driven in perpendicular to fall. Seems like it could encourage a side lean or be less effective at preventing the tree from sitting back.

However, the way you have it I'm afraid I may shave to much of the hold wood off to fit the wedges in the right direction. Maybe I'll saw one side down the extra angle, fit the wedge, then do the other just in case.

Have you used that technique before Kevin? (don't laugh at me, you guys have probably seen it all). Is there a better way to do it?

[Kevin]

I don't think you ever see it all but if you do it long enough you'll make enough mistakes to learn how to minimize the risk.
I've used this method and many more, every tree can be different.
The problem with your picture is the wedges will lift the tree at the hinge and break the hinge where you won't have any control of the tree.
You want to lift the back of the tree where you'll get the best leverage.
Just use one wedge if you don't have room for two.
You can always offset the strap to one side.

[John Mc]

I'd be inclined to use the method Kevin showed with the offset holding wood. The only time I put a wedge in right behind the hing is when a tree has a lot of side lean and I'm afraid the lean may crush the hinge. Even then. I don't drive the wedge in to tip the tree over, I just snug it up.

Once you cut your notch and form the hinge, do you have enough depth to drive your wedge all the way in?

I'd also bring two wedges with me, in case the first doesn't give you enough lift to fell the tree. Once the first one is in as far as it will go, put a chunk of wood that is just a bit less thick than the wedge in the gap next to the wedge, then drive your next wedge in on top of that chunk. This will give you a bit more lift (the thickness of your second wedge, plus the chunk of wood it's sitting on.)

John Mc

[joejkd]

Well fellas, the tree is down.

Funny enough I went for the bore cut with an offset holding strap. Made a nice perfectly aimed open face notch (found the sight on a homelight, it's a line etched in to the front handle).

Measured out where I wanted by hinge to be. Plunged the bore cut through and when it popped out the other side....I was about 1mm from the hinge on the opposite side!!! Whoooops.

So I switched to a split level/quarter cut technique by cutting out the back all the way and 2/3 of the way through center on the bore slot I already had, fitting a wedge, and then making the 2nd cut at the required angle.

3 taps on the wedge and POP tree started falling right on target until it got hung up on one tiny little branch on a neighboring pine. I wish I took a picture because the fact that this tree was hung up on this tiny branch defied physics!

I tied a rope to my come-along, double anchored it about 70 feet away and cranked the tree down with no fuss right on target.

Moral of the story; it helps to know more than 1 way to get the same thing done, the quarter cut is a deceptively simple cut (that's the first time I had done it) and come-alongs are really handy!!

I'll try to take a pic of the stump tomorrow so you guys can critique what you see there.

[thecfarm]

I cut alot of dead trees down too. Just be CAREFUL with those trees. I've been surprised more than a few times with the tops breaking off when they hit another tree or even when they hit the ground. Escape routes are real important. Make sure you get away from them when they start to fall. I've had other small trees come down in the process too.
By the way,have them steel toes and chaps yet? Someone on here once said a price of chaps is just about co-pay on a emergency room visit.

[joejkd]

I was far away when it came down, and I was about 100 ft. away with the winch. I was worried about the smaller branches getting flung a ways, but luckily they were still pliable so it didn't happen.

I hear ya on the chaps and boots. Should have them ready for the next tree I fell. I really appreciate your concern on these forums, I think it's great people look out for one another here.

[Kevin]

Cut your hinge on one side and the tree will usually roll off the limb and fall to the ground.

[Ron Scott]

Ditto! on having the chaps and boots in place.

[joejkd]

I uploaded the pictures of the tree to the gallery, but I can't get the dang things to post. It says I need the URL for the pictures in the gallery. How do I get that?

EDIT: Nevermind I know how to get it, but clicking on the "Upload Photo" just causes an error every time so I can't get back in to my gallery to get the URLs. Any ideas?

[beenthere]

joe

While you are making a post and want to include a pic, then click on the Java Uploader and when it comes up, click on "My Gallery" along the left side listing.
When you see the pic in your gallery, click on it and it will enlarge from the thumbnail size. Once enlarged full size, then scroll down below a ways and you will see two choices to get this pic in your post. I usually select the one in green highlight. Click on that and a small window pops up asking "Yes" or "No". Pick yes. Then go back to your post (it is in a separate window) and see if it is there (to be sure, click Preview). If it is not in your post, go back to your gallery and scroll down and copy the URL in the white window and just paste that into your post. Again, click preview to see how your post looks before continuing.
Hope this helps.

If you are getting errors, maybe reboot and shake the grates to clear out some of the "hangers" that get in the way. Your pics are in the gallery as they should be. So most of any work is done.

The only critique I would make on the success taking the tree down, is the offset cut doesn't need to be 2", and can be like a half inch. Makes a prettier stump is all. But I don't see a hinge?

[joejkd]

Installed the latest version of Java and got rid of the older ones seems to be working fine now!

Here's what I have. All left/right references are assuming you are facing the same direction as the line of fall:

 



Right Side

 



Left Front

 



Facing the hinge

 



From the back

 



Here it is on the ground (I already limbed and started bucking). You can see here the clearing the tree is laid in between the fern, that was actually made by the first tree I felled, the stump of which you can see to the left, so my aim was pretty good. Too bad I almost bore the hinge off when I started   

[Kevin]

Good job on making the effort to post the pictures.
Your stumps are too high but if you are just blocking up the wood it doesn't really matter.
You should practice cutting closer to the ground.
You already know what you did wrong with the bore so how will you cut it next time?
I'm wondering why the final cut is so deep, there should have only been a small holding strap at the back, did it not go when you cut the strap?

[thecfarm]

How are you getting the wood out? I myself like my stumps low so I can drive over them. I cut my brush up about 2-3 feet long. Most times I cut it short while it still on the tree. This way it gets on the ground and will rot faster so I can drive through it without any damage to my tractor, or I hope there is no damage.

[joejkd]

This tree is about 50 ft. from the treeline bordering my side-front yard, so I get these one's out by hand.

I will definitely practice cutting close to the ground. In fact, I will probably practice on this stump.

The bore was on the correct plane vertically, but was not parallel to the hinge, so next time I plan on making some scuffs in the dirt with my feet when I have the saw lined up with the hinge, move to the back, start my bore, then when I go to push in move my feet back to the scuff marks. Should help punch it in parrallel.

I didn't realize the final cut was too thick? The tree went right over after 3 taps on the wedge. I used my handheld 4 pound sledge, so I didn't really have to put much oomph into it either. The close end of the saw was probably too high now that I take another look at the stump, but near where the cuts overlap was only about a 1/4 inch apart.

How would you all have done it differently?

On an entirely different note: I'm having trouble with splitting some big rounds from my father's maple I cut down for him after hurricane Irene. I'm using an 8# maul and have a 4lb. splitting wedge. (the wedgeis nigh useless.)

I'm usually pretty decent with the maul, but it seems anything over 12" tall and 10" wide will not pop with the maul. The maul gets stuck constantly and I can't seem to start a crack. The wedge generally won't budge from a pretty vigorous overhead swing.

I only weigh 150lbs. but I'm quite physically fit, so when I say I'm swinging that maul I am SWINGING it!

 I was thinking about buying a Fiskars splitting axe or a monster maul, but I'd rather get it done with what I have.

[Kevin]

For bore cutting it would have looked like this picture

The last cut would have just taken out the little strap in the back.
On a small tree like that you can cut on the same plane as the bore.

I don't split much wood but it sounds like your dads maple might be soft if the maul is getting stuck in the wood.
Are you splitting on a hard surface and not the bare ground?
Do you know anyone with a gas splitter?
Maybe your dad will give you the money to rent a splitter for the tough ones.

[thecfarm]

I split ALOT of wood with a sledge hammer and 3-4 iron wedges growing up.Are you saying the wedges won't go into the wood,maybe they kinda bounce out when you try to drive them into the wood? I use to have to just tap the wedge into the wood,maybe 4-5 times,than when it starts to go in hit it a little harder,little harder again and than hit like you normally would. If the wedge is not ready to go into the wood it will just bounce back out. Just start over again and give it another try.Also if the wood is starting to dry look for a crack. Start the wedge there,it will make it alot easier to open up.I had 3 brothers and we would split our winter wood and my grandmothers too. I would like to have a nickel every time I swung that sledge hammer.

[Weekend_Sawyer]

 I can't help with the tree felling but I know alot about splitting.

If you try and split along a natural crack in the wood it will split easier.
I also take my maul and try to draw a line across the wood with multiple swings, walking it forward so that the top of the first strike is the bottom of the second, this usually works. You can usually hear the wood starting to give way. each  strike will sound more and more hollow.

If that doesn't do it then you need multiple wedges and use the previous line and drive 2 or 3 wedges in at the same time. If they want to bounce out just tap them in easy. If that doesn't do it and you don't have a log splitter then it goes back to nature for the bugs to eat!

Jon

[beenthere]

Couple "tricks" that worked for me....
When the wedge bounced out, I'd pick it up with a small bit of dirt on the tip and restart it in the same spot. Most often then would hold.

If the piece was so knarly to not be split, would grab the chainsaw and make a kerf. That would give plenty of depth to keep the wedge in place (and sometimes would complete the saw cut and not even use the wedge and/or maul).

Now the trick is the wood splitter.   Works better for me.

[joejkd]

Kevin: That's the cut I was going for. Saw it referenced on a video on youtube called "Danish Pie Cut." Looked like exactly what you have there, except he sawed the backstrap off 1/2 below the bore slot. I'm going to practice it on the stump this weekend and try it again, looks like if you get the bore down pat it's a faster more forgiving cut than the 1/4 cut. Does it work for bigger stuff? I've got a 18" DBH oak with a slight back lean deep in the woods that's begging to go in my woodstove next year.

As far as the wedge problem is concerned....I have no trouble starting the wedge. I can seat it pretty well with my 4lb. sledge. I then take the maul to it. The wedge doesn't pop out, it just doesn't sink into the wood!! I think I got crap wedges (I paid $5 for them made by luddell) it looks like the taper is too fast so it's essentially like trying to split a log with a hammer. Maybe a thinner, longer wedge might help?

[John Mc]

Joejkd -

The first thing to getting good penetration with a maul or wedge is to make SURE the round you are splitting is sitting on a solid base. If the ground is wet or soft, it will often absorb a good bit of the blow. Putting it on a splitting block (I use an old 12" diameter Oak round) can help, but even then, the splitting block should not be on soft, spongy ground.

An old-time once told me to "Pick a spot on the top end of the log to aim for, but swing for the bottom every time." After that advice, I noticed how I had been easing up at the end of the swing. If you watch some people splitting, you can see how they are tensing up just before impact, almost as if they are trying to stop the swing (sort of anticipating where it will stop).

A huge, monster-sized maul was not all that effective for me. Within reasonable limits, velocity of the swing and accuracy is more important than having an ultra heavy maul or sledgehammer, as far as efficient splitting is concerned. Even if you are fit, it can be counter-productive to try to swing a 10+ pound maul, unless you are very strong (I'm not). If the size you can get good control and speed with is 6 pounds, then go with that.

Especially on large rounds, don't start out aiming for the exact center. Try to start the split near the edge, and then work your way across. On really large rounds, you may want to try splitting "flakes" off the outside of the log (splitting more or less parallel to the rings,rather than splitting along a radius into the center). After you've knocked it down to size, then go for splitting it in two.

As others have mentioned, starting in a crack or check that is already there can help.

www.woodheat.org is a good resource for woodburning and splitting tips. Here is one of their pages on woodsplitting techniques: www.woodheat.org/split-wood.html

[beenthere]

.......
deleted...was referencing the wrong wedge usage here. Reading too fast and thought we were still on the subject. 

[joejkd]

Hmmmm....so what do I use then on these rounds? I can start a kerf (slot? not sure of the proper term) with the maul that I seat the wedge in, but I need to bust the rest open somehow. I though that was the purpose of the wedge?

If I could sever it further with the maul, I'd just keep whacking it with the maul. 

[John Mc]

Beenthere -

In reply #58, it sounds as though you are talking about using a wedge to fell a tree. I believe in this instance, joejkd is talking about splitting wood with wedges.

[Kevin]

it's a faster more forgiving cut than the 1/4 cut. Does it work for bigger stuff?

I usually just bore heavy head leaners.
That's where you want to cut below the bore because there is so much weight pulling on the back strap that the strap can break prematurely below the bar trapping the saw and taking it out of your hands if you are quick enough to let go of it.
What are you calling "the 1/4 cut"?
An 18" tree isn't what I would refer to as large but it might be large for the area you are cutting in and when I'm trying to describe what I would do we might not be talking about the same scenario.
When boring a smaller tree you run out of wiggle room pretty fast.

[Ianab]

How would you all have done it differently?

Wouldn't have bore cut it at all, unless I was just looking to get in some practice.

I would have done that with conventional scarf and back cut, with a plastic wedge inserted as soon as I had the depth, in case it settled back and pinched the bar.

Like Kevin says, I save bore cutting for trees with heavy front lean. Then the technique lets you get the hinge wood set up correctly, before the tree is anywhere close to falling. Work forward to the hinge line, then back to leave the holding strap. Then check your escape route, and snip through the holding wood, and take some large steps the heck out of the way   

But this is the sort of tree we are often felling


Looking at the stump from the other side, with some notes added. You can see how the heavy lean tore out the holding wood before it was cut right through, that's why you are making the cut a little below the main one. The back side of the tree lifts away from the saw cleanly.


Side view of the tree with a minimal scarf cut. Because of the heavy lean, it only needs to be deep enough to form a hinge, once it closes up, the tree is well and truly committed to falling. Notch wasn't perfect, But I'm cutting it at head height on that side of the tree, while the cut was 6" off the ground in the uphill side.


Trying to drop that sort of tree with a conventional back cut will probably result in the whole tree "barber chairing", splitting in 1/2 and possibly dropping on your head.

But learning to bore cut is still a very good idea, there are certain times when it can literally save your bacon.

Ian

[thecfarm]

I did not think of the iron wedges that can be bought now. The ones I use to use are not blunt. The wedges are tapered evenly all the way. I know what you mean about the bottom of the wedge being too fast.  Antique stores have the old ones. Or grind down the new one.

[John Mc]

I agree that a bore cut may not be "necessary" on the tree joejkd posted, but there may still be good reasons to do it.

The bore cut technique certainly is useful on front leaners to prevent barber chair, and get your hinge set up properly without having the tree start moving before you are ready.

For more-or-less straight-standing trees, or even some with moderate back lean, a conventional back cut works fine, IF you have a big enough tree to start your cut from the back, then insert a wedge after the bar is buried, but before the tree settles back. Since 90% of what I cut is 12" or less, I've just gotten into the habit of doing what Kevin posted (in reply #52) on most of my trees. No worries about it settling back either due to the lean or a gust of wind, and I can do it on a tree that might settle back before I was deep enough to get a wedge in on a conventional back cut. I'm in such a habit now, that I'd probably end up doing it on a larger tree as well.

I also think it's a useful technique for someone getting started with felling (assuming you learn to bore cut safely). It can take a while to learn to read a tree, or you can be surprised by something unexpected (there seem to be a lot more "surprises" when you are just getting started). If I were unsure, I'd rather do this than have barberchair fling my saw or smack me on it's way down.

[Ianab]

Just doing a few "for practise", even if you don't need to is fair enough as well. Gets you confident with the technique before you NEED to use it, on a tree that isn't going to be forgiving of mistakes. I wouldn't like to be bore cutting that tree I posted as my first attempt 

Ian