Logging transport across my land

[johncinquo]

A fellow owns about 120 acres to the north of my property.  There is a substantial creek that flows through the middle of his land, making it not passable from one side to the other with a vehicle.  Essentially, his bottom 60 is land locked to travel.  Everything is private property hat would lead to the road to get out.  He approached me previously and we talked about selling him a easement.  He did not like my price at all.  I offered to trade him some of my land, for some of his, and he did not like that idea either.  His wooden shoes squeak.  Anyway, I have found out they are getting ready to log his land. The trees are marked and the boundaries are outlined.  They did get off onto my land in one spot, but looks like they have corrected it and have it re-marked correctly.  I did not venture too far back, but a neighbor told me they have some heavy equipment back in the brush already. 
I am debating what to do now.  Wait and stop the log truck when I see them going across my land.  Call him now before anything starts and discuss what his plans are.  I have a price in mind that I will charge for driving through my land, and he is not going to like it.  I have it marked as "Private Property, No Trespassing" with signs, but a sign never stopped anyone.  I am sure there are no plans to fly them out by helicopter, and see no other options to get them out. 
Am I  being reasonable in wanting something to cross my land?  What is a reasonable amount I should ask?  Any other ideas for compensation? 

[beenthere]

John
You haven't said what you plan to charge to cross your land, so how can we respond if it is reasonable or not?

Will be up to you as to how you want to continue getting along with your neighbor. But if a logging firm has the contract to move the logs, then seems that a deal to cross your land would be made with that logger, not the landowner.

I'd go back and talk with the loggers. Them knowing you, and that you are friendly (??) would be a good place to start.

Let us know how it pans out.

[red oaks lumber]

what would you want for a deal if the roles were reversed?

[Ianab]

A common bargaining chip here is "track improvements".

You get the logger to do work on your access road, some more gravel, new culverts or whatever. This improves your land, reduces the damage their machinery does, and makes their life easier as they have better access to the job.

So the "consideration" need not be a cash payment, but they do some work and leave your property better than when they got there.

Ian

[lynches lumber]

Had a family owned logging company ask for permission to use a road of mine to haul out timber a few years ago. They damaged a gate. Said they would replace any damage they caused when they were done. A couple of weekends into the job one of the sons invited me down to his neck of the woods for a duck hunt when he found out I loved to duck hunt. After the hunt I was running late for an appointment back home. Met this man with a blue bubble gum machine on top of his car. as he was pulling me over. I be darned if a plastic bag didnt fly out of the boat. Well as I was trying to explain the logical reasons for the problem ,the son and his dad pulled up to see if I was having problems.Obviously the logging family had a lot of friends. I left there with a warning ticket for a seat belt. That gate is still swinging. Wouldnt take $425 for that thing.

[Frickman]

I've done what Ianab described many times. In lieu of a cash payment  I improve the property with my equipment and a little gravel. If I do pay for access it is usually 25 to 50 dollars / truckload of loads, pay as I go. In that case I will draw up a formal agreement, a temporary right-of-way, spelling out the terms of the agreement. If it's an improve the property deal usually the landowners are the type that don't like paperwork so we don't generate any.

Any time I have to pay extra to access timber I consider it just another expense in harvesting the timber unique to the tract and the money comes out of the harvest landowner's pocket, not mine. Just like when I pay less for timber standing on a steep hillside than another tract that is flat and alongside a good road.

[scsmith42]

John, at a minimum I would send the logging company a certified letter ASAP notifying them that you have not granted permission to cross your land, nor does the adjacent landowner have an easement to cross it.

[Ron Scott]

How did they get the logging equipment in? Did they cross the creek?

[Autocar]

Ive improved right of ways and have paid up to one hundred dollars to cross. But the ground conditions have been perfect. Red Oaks Lumber hit the nail on the head [ What if the role was reversed ? ] Always a good thing to try your best to get along.

[johncinquo]

I would probably prefer the land owner to work with me in advance, rather than him just assume he was going to go across my land.  I am guessing the logging company has no idea either way, and this will all be news to them.  The road needs no improvements, no drainage/gravel needed.  No gate up, but there will be one after this Saturday!  I found tracks where they drove the equipment in, but I did not go beyond my land yet to see what all they have back there.  I am not after giving the loggers a hard time, they are probably ignorant of the whole property issues and that they came in on private property.  I am going to head out and try and talk with them and see what they plan on doing as of now.  I have left a message for the land owner, no word back yet but will see what he plans. 

What would I want?  I'd want it free just like everyone else!      But I already know that does not happen nowadays.  If him and I were reversed, I know darn well he would be charging me.  I pay the higher taxes for road frontage.  I keep all the trespassers off his land with my land marked and posted.  I have offered him an option to this problem in the past, and he declined.  Hey pay me now, or pay me later, but nothing is life is free. 

I'll let ya know how it turns out. 

[beenthere]

I'd guess it is the logging company's responsibility to know who's land they are on, and their responsibility to get permission.
Might not be the time for you to be silent and coy about what is happening as you see it shaping up. But you can play it any way you want.

Good neighbors are hard to find, and it takes work to keep them as good neighbors.

[red oaks lumber]

if your land butts upto a section line, you'll be giving acsess to land locked property.

[gunman63]

not sure thats correct red oaks, the guys land isnt really  landlocked, so it doesnt  quailfy for the cartway on the  section line. hes able to reach his  property already, just  cant  get to the back of it, plus if it  did  it would be  mighty expensive  building  a cartway, for  just  some trees.

[POSTONLT40HD]

First of all the balls in his court. As I understand it, nothing has been done to intrude on your life or property.

Next, since your land is POSTED, if logging trucks or anyone else crosses your property, call the Sheriff's Department or Wildlife Commission in your area since your signs have been disregarded.

This will put the land owner and the logging trucks to a dead halt.

Now the ball is STILL in his court. He has to make a move.

You may NOW get your asking price for whatever YOU decide because he has now been shut down for not abiding by the law.

As long as you use the law and stay within the law....it's like holding candy in front of a baby.

I've seen it work before.

[johncinquo]

The owner got back with me.  His story is, he did not know the logging company had come down to the southern section, across my land.  (since they did not swim here, I am not sure how he thinks they got there)   They did drive across my land using my private road to get to it, the tire tracks are there and I did find where they had some vehicles parked.  Any vehicles or equipment is no longer there.  All the trees are marked as to what they intend to cut.  I'd call it a thinning of the older trees, but really not worth the effort at this time.  Nothing over 24", and everything down to 16" and many seem to be less than that.  Anyway, we had a talk and he is going to stop in at my office next weeek and we are going to discuss some options.  He says he has not decided whether to have it logged or not yet, and is waiting on the count and quote back from the survey.  I talked with all the other land owners that he might possibly have a route for them to get through, but everyone has a "yard" or no road through at all and have no intention of giving access through.  He did say he was going to look at going through a section of low area that a culvert was installed before.  I had a chuckle and asked if he had been out there lately, he hadn't.  It is about 40 feet deep and 60 across, and very steep, the culvert has long collapsed and the swamp has reclaimed the whole area.  You would spend a considerable amount time and money getting through there again.  On top of that the neighbor to the West of there is a wetlands/watershed activist and the first sound of a dozer running and he would have the DNR DEQ or any other gubermental agency he could get ahold of out there with C&D orders.   
I'll have to wait and see what he has in mind and go from there.  Still putting up a gate this weekend.  I know many people find it easier to ask forgiveness than permission. 

[shinnlinger]

My question is how does it effect you if they use that access?  Does it really matter?   Negative energy directed at you for little gain is rarely a good thing. 

My advice, Be reasonable.  If you think your road could use some more gravel when there are done, fair enough, ask for it.  Maybe some firewood or saw logs.  Maybe you have a spot or two that could use some thinning or tree work.  JUst think down the line if you have to ask your neighbor for a favor will he be inclined to grant it?  It doesn't sound to me like they are infringing on you very much to use your road.

Dave

[Autocar]

Shinnlinger I agree one hundred percent with you ! Good Post , Bill

[WH_Conley]

Might be more beneficial to be on good terms with the logger than the neighbor. I would talk to him first. You would probably come closer to needing the logger down the road than the neighbor. I would make a point to talk to him while waiting on the neighbor.

[doghunter]

when I buy a tract of timber as soon as the deal is final i contact all the adjoining landowners just to let them know what is going to happen. some times i buy more timber from them later, sometimes i get a heads up to be ready for a battle with them, some times i just get to meet some nice people and sometimes i meet people who want to control all they see wherther they own it or not. as loggers we try to get along with the neighbors so that i can sleep soundly leaving $75,000 dollars worth of equipmant unattended at night. i always have landowners guarantee acess just in case there are problems later. most of the time after the neighbors see we try to do a good job of cleaning up and not making a big mess they are ok with us. sometimes i have left  a few trees (the only shade on a neighbors back yard) just to keep from upsetting them. mostly i just want to try to keep the confrontations to a minimum its just good business. talk to the loggers before they start just to let them know what is going on. use the legal system as a last resort no one wins in court except the lawyers!

[ljmathias]

Like any business, there are some bad apples in with the mostly good ones.  Previous owners of the land adjacent to ours had exactly the same problem outlined here, but when they asked, there was no dickering, no offer to "make things right or better," nothing but "we want to haul logs across your land and up your driveway."  I told them no since the neighbor is a greedy land owner who possess about half the county- his father bought it during the depression and story goes he paid fire-sell prices.  Anyway, after they finished logging, I looked over their handiwork- what a mess!  The tore up every patch of clear space on the land they did have access to and left it that way: if the owner of the land doesn't even get his property back into shape after, what chance would I have had.  Oh, and unless you get it in writing with some people, word of mouth is hard to prove and harder to get honored.  On the other hand, I know lots of loggers who are honest, hard working and completely above board... and that's the good news.

Lj