Workshop notes.....with a lot of pics!

[Satamax]

That scarf joint is in a purlin post. It is 4' long. The joint you showed would not have the rigidity necessary for a post. All repairs I am working on are drawn by Jack Sobon. I let him do the engineering. All layout is done off of reference faces, never off of a center line.

Hi Dave.

Well, different countries, different maners! The joint i showed is the same as you've done.  but different. If made long and deep enough it can cope with vertical push. Thought it's better at pulling in the shape i've shown. It's funny that you've all done from reference faces. In this case i wouldn't have thought it possible. Mind you, i've never hand hew timber myself. Tho, i work with a lot of, doing atic conversions etc! Most of the old wood i work with is between 100 to 300 tears old. Hand hewn, but nothing is straight enough. You often see one inch wide of cambium on each corner. They weren't hewing deep and square. And obviously you have centerlines everywhere. Pieces are bent and twisted also now. What i do is use square wood and fake the old hand hewn or adzed surface after the joints are cut, when i add new wood.  Sorry, i don't know who's Jack Sobon.

And Piston, sorry for the hijack.

[Brad_bb]

The hand tool vs power tool is an interesting discussion.  We've had it here before.  What it comes down to is you're own personal preference.  One common thing I've found is that newbies often have misconceptions about hand tools, thinking they are slower or more cumbersome.  That usually stems from having tried with dull tools in the past, and not knowing the proper technique.  I started in timber framing 5 years ago, first learning with power tools, taking a workshop that favored those.  Afterwards, I learned more of what I didn't know yet through this forum and the TF guild forum.  I then took a workhshop where only hand tools were used to try to learn new things.  I was really surprised at how much I learned.  I tend to lean towards hand tools now for a number of reasons, but will find occasion to use some power tools too.  What I learned with hand tools also makes you better when you do use power tools too!   What is really neat is that I still seem to learn something new when I'm around other timber framers.  I just did a demonstration with a fellow framer, "Rooster", and he showed me a trick for starting hand saw cuts easier and with greater precision (youtube vid coming soon).  It's a great process of continual learning.  So my advice is not to get stuck on one method, but stay open to other techniques and you will build and hone your repertoire of skills.

[Satamax]

The hand tool vs power tool is an interesting discussion.  We've had it here before.  What it comes down to is you're own personal preference.  One common thing I've found is that newbies often have misconceptions about hand tools, thinking they are slower or more cumbersome.  That usually stems from having tried with dull tools in the past, and not knowing the proper technique.  I started in timber framing 5 years ago, first learning with power tools, taking a workshop that favored those.  Afterwards, I learned more of what I didn't know yet through this forum and the TF guild forum.  I then took a workhshop where only hand tools were used to try to learn new things.  I was really surprised at how much I learned.  I tend to lean towards hand tools now for a number of reasons, but will find occasion to use some power tools too.  What I learned with hand tools also makes you better when you do use power tools too!   What is really neat is that I still seem to learn something new when I'm around other timber framers.  I just did a demonstration with a fellow framer, "Rooster", and he showed me a trick for starting hand saw cuts easier and with greater precision (youtube vid coming soon).  It's a great process of continual learning.  So my advice is not to get stuck on one method, but stay open to other techniques and you will build and hone your repertoire of skills.

I agree with you.

One thing i've always heard Start with the basics somebody trying to use power tools who doesn't understant grain for example, or binding because he cuts between two trestles.

I've learnt to use hand tools first in woodworking. I had a diploma in engineering before. Learnt to shape, mill, turn, saw file, rectify, weld, solder etc first. But i know that for one cut, it's faster to grab the hand saw, than opening the box, plug the saw, set it up, do the cut, clean and then put the saw away.

[Magicman]

This is a very good series of pictures and comments.  Thanks for taking the time to share it.    

[Dave Shepard]

When I work on an old timber to cut a scarf like that one, I have to first "unwind" the timber. That means I put it up on horses, with the original reference face up. In a wall post, this would be the side towards the sheathing. If I have a good tenon on one end or the other, I will use this to level the piece, and see if the face is "in wind" with the tenon, if not, I may have to split the difference. Once I have the timber levelled, I then use a level on the scarf end to establish a point on either side of the timber that will be my layout plane. If the posts is laid out 2"/2", I'll make my layout points 2" down from the reference face of the post. If I was previously satisfied the tenon on the other end was in wind, I'll snap a line from my level point on the scarf end to the reference side of the old tenon. I'll do this to both sides of the post, as well as a snap line 2" off of the reference edge on the reference side of the post. Now I can use the framing square to layout the repair.

[Satamax]

Hi Dave.

You're using a spirit level? Or a plumb level? I hate the spirit levels. They are mason's tools in case like this. I know plumb levels are antique tools nowadays. but are more precise. And last discovery for me, a plumb vertical. Makes things cool for tracing instead of just a plumb line.

I'm sorry being french, i don't quite understand what you mean by in wind.

Bye.

Max.

[Dave Shepard]

In wind means each end of the timber is in the same plane. You can see in one of Piston's pictures they are using two framing squares, one on each end of the timber, to see if there is any twist in the timber. I have a great deal of faith in modern spirit levels after doing a little testing against a machinists level. A machinists level has graduations typically that measure .0005" per 10". I recently had to lay out a tenon on the end of a half round timber. The top of the timber was not straight any more so I used the level to drop the lines down plumb. The bottoms of the lines were exactly the same distance apart as the top. I was a little bit unsure this was going to work at first, but now I use it with confidence.

[canopy]

So suppose there is some twist in a timber. Now what do you do for square rule to compensate for this?

[Jim_Rogers]

So suppose there is some twist in a timber. Now what do you do for square rule to compensate for this?

Good question. Well it really all depends on the timber and what position in the frame where you intend to use it.

Mostly you either strike out lines with a chalk line or you use your layout tools to compensate for the defects in the timber.

On Piston's timber the twist was not enough to worry about, less then 1/16".

However on some of the others we had some sawmill defects that we had to deal with. Which were out of square timbers.

On one of our 6" x 9" plates we saw that one end the surface of a side wasn't true.

As shown here as the dotted line:



You can also see in the end view drawing that I have picked the reference face and adjacent face and labeled them with the two standard triangles.

We checked and the surfaces although not completely 90° to each other were parallel. That is the top and bottom and the left and right.

We selected this surface to be the top so that the timber would line up this way.

Next we hung a framing square onto the timber to see how far it was out.

And using a combination square set to the offset we could project the location on the bottom of the plate for the vertical mortise for the post tenon.

As shown here:



This way the mortise is truly vertical and in the correct position off the reference plane which is the outside of the building.

Any gap between the top of the post and the side of the plate will be covered by the vertical siding when it is applied.

Does this help you to understand how to deal with this type of situation?

Jim Rogers

[canopy]

That's looks good for handling twist in the adjacent faces, thank you. Going one step further, some timbers have more severe twist that effects all 4 faces. What I mean is if you take a perfect timber and twist one end, then there is no reliable reference face at that end. Now what can be done?

[Dave Shepard]

Snap line square rule.

[WildDog]

Thanks for taking the time and effort Piston, some really good stuff there. You have spurred me on to do some wood work, everything I work on lately seems to need a welder.

[Jim_Rogers]

To Piston, Norm and Rich:

Jack and I are going to try and do the full frame fit up this weekend on Saturday the 10th.
At the site.

You're welcome to come by if you're available. (I don't expect you to come, Rich) but I had to include you in the offer.

We hope to raise the frame on the 18th if the weather is good and we have everything done. Of course I'll try and take as many pictures as I can.

Jack has decided that would should use my gin pole to raise the plates. So that will be the plan.

We may even use it to raise the bents. I'm not sure of that right now, I'm suppose to be figuring out the weight of a bent and see how many men/people we'd need to do it all by hand. If we don't have enough then we'll use the gin pole for sure.

Jim Rogers

[Piston]

Unfortunately I won't be able to make it for the raising.  Out of curiosity, did you and Jack keep track of the amount of hours into the project so far? 

[Jim_Rogers]

I have tracked what I have done. But I don't know or think Jack has tracked what he has done.

Jim

[Jim_Rogers]

Last Sunday morning we put the frame together.

We started early around 9 am or so, and we were done with what we had planned to assemble by 1:30pm. Then we had a nice lunch provided for all by Jack's wife.

(Jack was my client on this project, not to be confused with any other "Jack" we mention often at the timber framing section of this forum.)

Jack son, without me knowing set up a camera and did a time lapse of the frame raising. Some of the beginning stuff was the day before as well.

Here is the YouTube link to the video:

[beenthere]

Well done video, and an interesting tour through the day building the frame.

[Piston]

Glad it's coming together as planned.  That's great he made a time lapse video of it!

[Jim_Rogers]

Metal roofing was delivered today. I delivered the purlins boards for the roof today as well.

Jack is out of town today, we'll be starting placing on the purlin boards on Thursday.

Jim Rogers