GOLD!

[ARKANSAWYER]

  I have a question about Gold and Silver for the most part.  I know some people are buying it as an investment.  They are toting it as inflation proof and that when the stuff hits the fan it will be the new money.
  But when they buy this gold do they get to hold it in their had?  Where do you keep your gold?  And after the stuff hits the fan how do you take that gold and buy any thing?  I mean do you just come to buy some lumber and shave off some of the coin in my hand?  Then what do I do with the gold.  I can not eat it, shoot it, and really do not know what it is worth.  Who's scale do we use and who is going to be in charge of keeping the scales honest.  I know that several hundard thousand dollars of gold is not very large so the safe will not have to be very large to hold the gold bars.  But how does the masses trade with gold and is there enough to go around so we can all trade with it?
  So is it really better then a pile of $20 dollars bills?  At least I can wipe my butt cutt with a $20 or start a fire with it.  I just do not see gold being all that important if it all comes crashing down.  It just seems to me that if I can not eat it or shoot it that it will be of little use to me.  Iron, lead and brass will become the new gold standard.
 

[Mooseherder]

I've never quite understood why Gold either.
You have all these important celebrities talking it up but if it gets to that point where things fall apart your better off with food and shelter with plenty of lead and mechanisms.
I heard that all the Gold of the World would only fill a High School Basketball gymnasium.
Don't know if that is true or not but I won't be following that crowd.

[Autocar]

I don't no anything about it eather,but for what there getting a ounce right now I can't see where theres much money to make. If things pick back up in five years and you gave $1600.00 a ounce today what will it back off to be in a number of years ?

[tyb525]

the price of gold is just like everything else, it changes with the value of the dollar. It's just another investment, and it's one of the less useful ones at that. No one will be buying jewelry or other gold items if everyone's broke. It will become like the paper dollar, useless, only a representative of "money".

[fuzzybear]

the price of gold is just like everything else, it changes with the value of the dollar. It's just another investment, and it's one of the less useful ones at that. No one will be buying jewelry or other gold items if everyone's broke. It will become like the paper dollar, useless, only a representative of "money".

Actually gold was/is supposed to be the standard on witch the dollar was/ is supposed to be based on.
  Paper money was used to replace gold coins that were in circulation. A $20 bill was worth $20 of gold. somewhere along the line it changed to the banking/financial section determining what it's worth.
  I agree it is and will always be a "worthless" hedge. If there is no money left I sure as heck don't want your gold....now if you have a fat steer or lamb....then I'll trade....not with gold however.
FB

[tyb525]

Yes it was the standard, until around 1960 when we ran out of gold and switched to the system we have now.

Used to be you could use gold/silver certificates (which look like dollar bills) and exchange them for gold/silver at any time. No longer, because gold does not back the dollar anymore. Nothing substantial backs the dollar, it is essentially play money now, it has no value except what people say it's worth.

[red oaks lumber]

buying gold now makes as much sense as selling stocks now

[SwampDonkey]

They should have been buying gold back in the 1980's when it was under $300 not when it's going sky high.

Money of today is called "fiat money", not backed by gold or silver.

[shelbycharger400]

some of the gold trade is just metal in your hand,  some of it is something like interest in stock,  you pysically dont have anything in your hand except for a piece of paper.  Worse to the whole deal is the Big Gov tracks all gold transactions, i think silver too.

Personally when i can,  i have been buyin old hand tools, wood twist bits ect, all powered by armstrong. they are anywhere from brand new to over 60 years old.  I use them time to time, and when stuff really hits the fan,  i still can do some tinkerin when wood is available.

[SwampDonkey]

You can certainly buy gold coins here from the Royal Canadian mint. My brother bought a gold coin in Maine a couple years ago.

One of the most expensive ones I see there is "The Maple Leaf Forever" coin for $60,000. The "Caribou" coin, a replica of the quarter is $75.00, "New Brunswick Coat of Arms" coin is $2400, "Banff National Park 125th Anniversary" coin is $57,000. The big dollar coins are 1 kg weight.

[shelbycharger400]

id question buyin anything from a government that refers to their dollar as a "loony"    if i spelled that right

[SwampDonkey]

  But do you understand why?

[isawlogs]

 Probably has never seen one.

 

[Brucer]

It wasn't the government that called it the "Loonie" -- it was we, the people.

[shelbycharger400]

*loonie*

yea i seen one, has a loon on it..  

i find this funny   The design for the coin was meant to be a voyageur theme, similar to the country's previous one dollar/silver dollar coin, but the master dies were lost by the courier service while in transit to the Royal Canadian Mint in Winnipeg. In order to avoid possible counterfeiting, a different design was used

[SwampDonkey]

In 2007 with the Guinness World Records certification of the largest coin in the world: the masterpiece 100 kg, 99.999% pure $1 million gold bullion coin. Canada was also the first country to produce 99.999% pure gold at it's refinery in 1999 and previous the first to produce 99.99% pure gold in 1982. Gold produced in Canada was used to pay off Britain's debt to other countries after WWI.

[Royal Canadian Mint]

At the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, Canadian icemaker Trent Evans buried a loonie at centre ice. Both the Canadian men's and women's hockey teams went on to win gold.

The United States minted its own dollar coin, the Susan B. Anthony dollar, from 1979-1981 and again in 1999. The public roundly rejected the coin because it looked too much like a quarter. A new coin, the gold-coloured Sacagawea dollar, was introduced in 2000. Both coins remained in circulation. In 2005 the treasury was asked to investigate taking the 888,842,452 Susan B. Anthony dollars out of circulation.

[CBC News Archives]

[logman]

Gold and silver have never been "worthless" but paper fiat money has and will be again worthless.  There will always be someone with the means to take your gold or silver in exchange for something you need.  Stocking up on food and tools would be the first thing to do but if you have extra cash where do you put it?  Inflation is going to eat up everything soon in my opinion. 

[Ianab]

Back to Arky's original question...

I'm not sure why, but gold has always seems to have an intrinsic value to humans, since pre-historical times. It was one of the first metals discovered, because it naturally exits as a metal, that you can just pick up off the ground of you look in the right place. It wont corrode, the ladies like it (possibly an important issue   ) , and you can trade it for whatever you do need. In modern society its still in demand for decorative and technological reason, and the supply is limited, so it retains it's value.

Look all through recorded history, and gold has been valuable. A $20 note is just an IOU. Depends who issues it. If they are broke, it's worth nothing. Look at Zimbabwe, last I heard they had $100 Billion bank notes, that might buy a pumpkin....

Offer them an ounce of gold, you get a whole truck load of pumpkins....

Ian

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Well I am glad that I am not the only one who does not get this buying gold deal.  Those who buy gold and get a piece of paper saying they own gold are some real fools.  Back when the banks failed in the Great Depression my Great GrandPa went to bed one night a wealthy man and woke to be broke.  The Banker left town with all the cash in the bank and was never heard from again.  While he owned land and live stock he was in his 60's (old back then) and died before the depression was over.  Great GrandMa remarried because women could not manage such important affairs such as money and business and soon lost all that he had recovered or had left.
  I have some gold I panned in AK back in the 80's and a few silver coins.  I have never put much stock in them as being worth much.  Ianab hit the nail on the head.  Women like shinny things that other women do not have and men like women.  That is why bald, pot bellied 60 year old men in red Corvettes can pick up very hot 20 year old women that would never give my poor self a second look.  Back in the day I was a lean mean handsome machine but did not have any bling.  Logman is right,  I might trade a fat chicken for a brace and bit.

[logman]

Silver, in my opinion is probably better to buy than gold.  I think it is used more in industry and it would be easier to trade for items of lower value (like bread).  About a year ago silver was about $18 an ounce, now it's almost $40 and was for a while over 40.  You can't really look at gold and silver as an investment it is more like insurance.
Twenty years from now if you had put 1000.00 in a bank or bought 1000.00 worth of gold or silver I'll bet you'll be able to buy more with what the metal is worth than what you have earned with the cash.  SwampDonkey put that gold was 300 back in the 80's,
it's 5 times that now.  If your great grandpa had buried gold in his backyard he would have lived with his wealth at least until FDR confiscated it. 

[fuzzybear]

   If you look inside of your computer/cellphone/electronic device you are going to find gold/silver/platinum. That is the number one use for gold. Every plug end is coated with gold. The circuit boards contain silver/platinum. That's why the Chinese are searching for it so hard.

At the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, Canadian icemaker Trent Evans buried a loonie at centre ice. Both the Canadian men's and women's hockey teams went on to win gold.

 My sister in law is the #1 womans wrestler in the world. At the last Olympics in China she was robbed of the gold, but got silver instead. The funny thing is when she showed me the medal I asked her if this was just a show piece and where was the real one. She said it was the real one. Care to guess what the actual medals are made of? I'll give you a hint there is very little gold or silver or bronze on any of the medals.
   I thought to myself what a bunch of horse , The Chinese own half the world and they can't even give a medal thats real.  Oh yea on a side note..I'm sorry to all the women that are entering the Olympics in the 64k wrestling....You are facing the best that there ever was. And she will bring the gold to Canada.  If you would like to see her in action just look on youtube and type in    Martine Dugrenier. She is the best.
FB

[ARKANSAWYER]

  If the gold I dug up in 80's is worth 5 times more today what do I trade it for?     If the cash I get is worthless then what do I keep the gold for?  Only land, eats and iron, lead and brass have value.  But the thing most over look is the knowledge and skills to get by.  There is no app for that when it all hits the fan.  You will starve to death if you have to lean to grow and can food.  Then defend what you have and live without cell phones and electricty.
  There are those who say it can not happen in the US.  Well just after Katrina there were folks in that boat.  Here for 3 weeks after the bad ice storm of 09 lots of folks lived that way.  A rouge comet hit the third rock from the sun and we may just very well find ourselves in this mess.  Our GOV keeps it up and we will be in this mess for a spell.
  At least with silver I can cast a bullet and be the Lone Ranger. 

[SwampDonkey]

With gold at least there is no exchange rate like from Euro to dollars. It is worth as much here as it is in Peru. I can buy with it what is available for sale. Just like a man could barter his labour for a bag of potatoes. But, how much you can barter depends on how much you and the seller value what they get in exchange. If you exchange a rake for a sack of taters, the seller of the taters may go hungry but the guy now with the rake can rake his yard. Who comes out the winner? I think each are winners because they agreed to the barter. Civilization has always been centered around bartering, whether it be gold or chickens or today's currencies. I don't see the world coming to an end because some bartering item has dropped out of favor. For instance, when the Holy Roman Empire came to an end, the sky never opened up, nor did the earth implode on itself. May happen some day, but I think we'll make an effort to over come it. Even the Hudson's Bay Company has existed since 1670 and during the 1980's when Kenneth Thompson acquired 3/4 of company shares and became president of the company, he lost more money than the company's netted income in the three previous centuries. Yet they still persist.

[fuzzybear]

   I am not kidding when I say that my yard is worth $100,000. there is that much gold here. But it is all useless because I have to spend at least $500,000 to get it.
  That is the real reason gold grows in value.  With the price of fuel, employees, royalty fees and permit, it costs the average gold mine here in gold country $1m to make $500,000.   There is tons of gold here but getting it is the problem. You need tons of big equipment to get it. There are large runs of gold here. Some will run a sluice box gold for hours. The personal best I saw was 100 oz in a little over 1 hour. not mine but a good friend.  Even with all that gold he still broke even for the season. He had to move almost 50' of overburden to get to the paydirt. Moving the dirt is not easy, it's all permafrost. Every "rich" miner here started poor. The poor miners started rich.
   Gold is the one metal that has  driven mankind to the brink of insanity. Men have lost their lives over a small bag of gold dust, entire societies were wiped out over it. No one is sure why it became the blood metal it is.
   My question has always been.....who in the heck is the dumb @#$% that decided it should be one of the most "Valuable" minerals on earth?  All gold has ever brought is pain and suffering to the world. I've seen best friends become bitter rivals over it. Families have been led down the path of ruin because of it.
   The term "gold fever" is a very real thing. When you meet someone with it you can literally can see it in their eyes and in their words. It becomes a drug more powerful than crack. Men have lost their minds here searching for it. It becomes an obsession that controls their every action. 
   Is gold worth anything....about as much as my dirty shorts. IMO
Arkansawyer,
  You hit it right on the head. Knowledge and skills are more valuable than gold will ever be. The rich will be very surprised if the poop hits the fan....they will learn that their "fortunes" are worthless to those that could help them survive. " the meek shall inherit the earth"
FB

[jdonovan]

But when they buy this gold do they get to hold it in their hand?

 
The ones who are really parinoid do. If not they buy an ETF, which is a 'chit' they can cash in for the value of an ounce at some future time. The problem with electronic gold, is the fund has a lag time to buy all the gold they have sold, so its a bit of a ponzi scheme and someone isn't going to get payed if there is a big sell off.

Where do you keep your gold? 

Somewhere secure.

And after the stuff hits the fan how do you take that gold and buy any thing?  I mean do you just come to buy some lumber and shave off some of the coin in my hand? 

This is the problem with 1-oz gold. Even 1/10-oz coins are a problem... right now that the equivalent of a $1500 bill, or a $150 for the 'small one'

This is the plus of silver. $30ish an oz, or $15 for a 1/2. Thats why folks call silver trading rounds.

  So is it really better then a pile of $20 dollars bills?  At least I can wipe my butt cutt with a $20 or start a fire with it.  I just do not see gold being all that important if it all comes crashing down.  It just seems to me that if I can not eat it or shoot it that it will be of little use to me.  Iron, lead and brass will become the new gold standard.

 

If no one will accept your pile of $20's because they aren't worth any more than the paper they are printed on, then you will have to have some thing of physical value to trade for goods/services.

[Ianab]

You know when someone digs a hole this big, that gold must be worth something to someone 



This used to be a hill, they are now down 600 feet.

Ian

[Jasperfield]

We will not see gold used as a form of personal currency. Those who believe that it will be so used, even during dire times, are confused.

Gold is the world's best vehicle to preserve the value of personal, corporate, or sovereign wealth. And, today, it is most importantly a way to get away from the dollar.

Liquid assets are sold to purchase gold, and that gold is held long term. The idea is to not move out of gold as your need for a currency dictates. Gold is wisely bought to avoid losing wealth via currency fluctuation, high inflation, and outright devaluation, not as a speculation and not as a currency of "last resort".

[Banjo picker]

I have always been a fan of silver myself...when I was a kid you could take 4 silver quarters and buy about 4 gal. of gasoline....You could take those same 4 silver quarters now and get about $35.00 for them and ...Here in Iuka I could buy 10 gal. of gasoline today....Tim

[SwampDonkey]

We also have gold here in NB and I don't l know how many times I can remember some prospecting outfit saying they are going to develop the areas and it goes silent after a few months without a tap being struck other than a drill rig for test holes. The biggest thing here is the cost to the environment, that's why the big gold mining companies head to places like Peru with more lax environmental regulation. An old timer who walked a lot of remote forest in his time, once told me there is significant gold here. He had found some small deposits himself embedded in quartz. There is an old tale that has been told for years about the lost Giberson Gold Mine. True or not I don't know and as long as it's lost, probably will never know. That's how tales live on.

[SwampDonkey]

We will not see gold used as a form of personal currency. Those who believe that it will be so used, even during dire times, are confused.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we would. First off, the coins they mint now (at least at the Royal Canadian Mint)  in gold are very limited in quantity, not in the millions required. Secondly, with the purity of today they would just melt it down and turn it into jewelery worth far more.

[LOGDOG]

Meanwhile ... as the naysayers continue to mock Gold, it continues to rise. Last night it went up more than $53.00/oz and set a new record. It's sitting at about $1705.00/oz right now. Show me one thing in your life, other than your wife or your dog, that went up about $800.00/lb last night. No case of bullets did that, no piece of real estate did that (especially when you compare it by the pound), no piece of iron in your shop did that.

In life you try to buy things that will appreciate consistently in value. Buy them cheap and try to sell them for more later. For the last 10+ years Gold has been on a steady rise. People would have been far better off being in Gold the last 10 years than the stock market.

If you're still asking yourself the question, "Why Gold?".... you haven't done enough research on it. The case for Gold is strong.

Arky, I know you read the Bible .... show me one currency still being used today other than Gold/Silver that is mentioned in the Bible? There's not. Google, "What is the oldest currency still in use today?" read about it and then compare it to when they finished writing the Bible. Then compare Gold and Silver to that. Gold and Silver have endured for a reason.

All that said, if you're a doomsday minded individual focused on the shtf .... then I agree that an emphasis should be put on food storage.  You should maintain a large, constant supply of bottled water, canned goods, medical items, tools, a seed bank comprised of heritage variety seeds (not hybrids) etc,etc at all times. A lot of information can be found here on the subject. http://beprepared.com/Default.asp?
I have a friend in TX that is diligent about this. They have entire rooms dedicated to food storage. It's stored all over their home. They have a tri-fuel backup generator with contingency plans for about every scenario they can think of. Supply of guns and ammo to protect themselves and their food if it ever comes to that. They eat from the food storage so that they rotate all the goods out in timely fashion and are always replacing them and keeping things fresh. They have it down to a science.

Given the choice, in a shtf scenario, yes, I would place more value on food stuffs, guns, ammo, medical supplies, and tools. But short of a Mad Max type event, if we're talking investments ...I like Gold.

[LOGDOG]

..... I'll toss this out there. If things did hit the fan right now, and the grocery store shelves went empty as people scarf up every available item in no time flat, how many days,weeks, or months could you eat from your pantry? How much clean water do you have on hand at the moment? What if the power grid went down and you had no power to run your well pump? What if the currency in your wallet was all of a sudden declared valueless? Or what if you couldn't get your money out of the bank? What if you were all of a sudden in competition with all of your neighbors hunting the various wild game for sustenance around your homestead. It wouldn't take long before every living critter on two or four legs had been shot, skinned and eaten. Then what? Seeds are great but they take time to grow. What are you going to eat and drink in the meantime? What if there was a nuclear scenario where the air outdoors and the ground were contaminated and you couldn't grow anything out there?

When you really start thinking out the various scenarios, you'll find that very few Americans are prepared. They'd be dropping like flies. I found it very sobering the first time I considered such questions. 

[LOGDOG]

....And Gold continues to go higher and set new records today. Currently $1721.00+ per oz. Amazing!!!

[ljmathias]

Just to lighten things up a little, let me throw in the title of a really fun movie which took place during the California gold rush: "Paint Your Wagon," starring Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood, and guess what? They both sing in the movie- weird.    The fun part is what they do to capture all the gold dust that trickles down between the floor boards of the various businesses, and the climax is what happens to their enterprise when a bull gets loose in it- a real bull market there, for sure!

Lj

[shelbycharger400]

What if the power grid went down and you had no power to run your well pump?

 

well the well shaft is 25 ft deep,     then its granite.   good tastin water too .   i figure that push comes to shove,  id find a way to turn the screw by hand with somethin, or dig a hole

[LOGDOG]

That shallow you could wire up a solar panel back up easy enough.

Are you guys seeing what Gold is doing tonight? It's up to $1742.70 tonight. Up almost another $30.00 after the close. Markets in Hong Kong are tumbling and our markets are down big time after hours.

[ARKANSAWYER]

    SO Gold hits $1800.00 an ounce what do you do with it?  Do  you sell it and get some paper money?  Keep it till it is worth $300.00 an ounce.  So you buy $200,000.00 in gold and then spend $10,000.00 for a safe to keep it in when to sell and cash in?
  Now dirt is a place to put your money.  They do not make any more of it and it is a good place to hide your gold.
  Because as we all know gold goes up and down in value all the time.   Did you see the whupping 401's took today?    Just paper.

[LOGDOG]

If you have enough Gold you could sell it at whatever price you decide you want to get out and buy another tangible item like land, apartment buildings,  or the like. You'd be in paper only as long as it took to do the sales contract, run title and have the closing. Now you're back in tangible items again.

By the way, 401k's didn't have to take a whooping today. If you were allocated to a fixed account or a bond fund you were just fine and likely making money. It's all about where your money is allocated in a 401k that determines how much risk you take on and how bad you get hurt on days like today. But you don't have to have any risk if you don't want.

[SwampDonkey]

I've had some money with TD Bank in Mutual Funds since 2000 and most are not big movers, but they have all climbed since I stashed a little cash into them. They are Bond, Growth, US Mid Cap, and Health Sciences. Dividend Growth is the biggest mover, it has doubled value, talking about $28 to $57 a unit. Remember our banks didn't need baling out of the hole.

If the power goes out, I still have lots of woolen wares and 9 cord of firewood.

[thecfarm]

I just moved my 401k. Just in time.for once in my life. I use to gamble with it. Lost ALOT when things went to pieces a few years back.Gained some of it back and than I cashed it in.I will be quick to say,there is alot I don't understand about the market and all the ways to invest money.

[isawlogs]

If power goes out , will go to the spring that feeds the lake if thirsty, if hungry will bring the fishing tackle/gun. Have a whack and a half of stove wood in the barn and woodstove can be put to use in no time, fireplace is available and so is the BBQ until the propan is out.

[Dean186]

I have a question about Gold and Silver for the most part.  I know some people are buying it as an investment.  They are toting it as inflation proof and that when the stuff hits the fan it will be the new money.

But when they buy this gold do they get to hold it in their had?  Yes, that is the only way I would own it.

Where do you keep your gold?  I don't have gold, but I have silver ingots that I keep it in safe with my guns.

And after the stuff hits the fan how do you take that gold and buy any thing?  It will be used like money.

I mean do you just come to buy some lumber and shave off some of the coin in my hand?  Silver and Gold are bought and sold in pre-defined weights in coins/ingot/bar form.

Then what do I do with the gold.  I can not eat it, shoot it, and really do not know what it is worth. 
Who's scale do we use and who is going to be in charge of keeping the scales honest?  Shouldn't need them in most cases.  The same system that has been used could still be used.

I know that several hundard thousand dollars of gold is not very large so the safe will not have to be very large to hold the gold bars.  Your right there.  Six plus pounds of gold would buy a $200,000 house in today's market.

But how does the masses trade with gold and is there enough to go around so we can all trade with it?   No, there is not enough to go around, which increases its value.

So is it really better then a pile of $20 dollars bills?  I would say so.

At least I can wipe my butt cutt with a $20 or start a fire with it.  One might consider $1 dollar bills for such. 

I just do not see gold being all that important if it all comes crashing down.  I would agree with "logdog" on the topic.
 

A few weeks ago, at a gun show, I traded silver ingots for an AR15 and some ammo.  We took the current spot price for silver to figure the amount.  I then I handed them three 10 oz bars and a few single 1 oz ingots.  It can work like money.

[LOGDOG]

What kind of AR15 did you get Dean186? I'm in the market for one myself. I want one in .308 caliber with the collapsible stock though. They're hard to come by around here.

[Dean186]

Hope we don't hijack the thread.  AR15 talk can get very lengthy.  The AR15's are one of the hardest to research guns I have ever purchased.

I purchased a Colt LE6940 in .223/5.56mm caliber (The Law Enforcement Only Model).  

But back on topic, I asked the seller if they would take J&M silver ingots for payment and they said yes, like they did it frequently.  We looked up the silver spot price on a cell phone.  Was it a good trade?  Well, too many factors to consider.  Silver spot price at the time was $44 per ounce.   I had paid about $13 per ounce for the silver many years ago.  I do like having an AR15 in the safe with a 1,000 rounds of ammo instead of the silver.  Much more fun to play with, but may not go up as much in price.


So when stuff hits the fan I could buy a gun and some ammo with the silver - oh wait - already done.  Check

[Bro. Noble]

Well, I just don't know what to do

I saw an ad on TV where you could take all your unwanted gold and exchange it for cash.  We loaded up all of ours the next time we went to town and cashed it in.  On the way home we invested it all in groceries

I was thinking that maybe we had done the right thing by investing in land like Norm,  but I went out to take a look at it.  It's not black and it's full of rocks

I've already got a gun and some ammo although I can't hit anything

I think I'll just buy a bunch more CD's  and hope I can get my CD player to work

[LOGDOG]

Dean I'd appreciate any tips you could give me on AR15's. You can send it by PM if you like so we stay on topic in this thread.

Meanwhile, check this link out: http://www.backwoodshome.com/   ....Notice the header about 3" down from the top center. It says, "Now accepting silver U.S. coins for subscriptions!". I've seen other places accepting silver for compensation as well.

[jdonovan]

Dean I'd appreciate any tips you could give me on AR15's. You can send it by PM if you like so we stay on topic in this thread.

start here:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355

This is a nice broad into to selecting a better quality AR, once you're read that, I'd say we start a new general topic for ar discussion.

[LOGDOG]

Cool. Thanks Jdonovan. 

[red]

i am with bro noble

[Dean186]

I think I'll just buy a bunch more CD's  and hope I can get my CD player to work

I get it - now that's funny.  May I use that line?

[Bro. Noble]

I think I'll just buy a bunch more CD's  and hope I can get my CD player to work

I get it - now that's funny.  May I use that line?

Sure, Dean, but if you start quoting me,  people may start avoiding you too

[ARKANSAWYER]

  I have a cross cut saw and some files.  I have a wood stove and a spring down the holler.  We put up can goods and dry stuff all the time.  We could go 6 months with out much trouble.  I would miss Dr. Pepper, coffee and sugar but we know how to use other things in place.  Sassafrass and honey are not bad at all.  I can smoke and dry meat and know all the things I can eat from the woods.  I have all my hand tools and a couple of fine axes.  I spent some time last year and learned how to make black powder.  It works just fine in the ole .45 smoke pole.  Wife has a spinning wheel and loom and knows how to use them.  LBJ will keep us in tree rats and I know how to make and use a stick and string (bow).  
  While I watch the evening news and see all the chos in London and places over seas while they talk about the stock market tanking I just smile.  Got no gold and not enough silver to fill one pocket but I have treasures laid up that will not rust or corrode and wife just said supper was done.      

[LOGDOG]

Meanwhile .... Gold crossed $1800.00/oz today setting a new record.  That's what I'm talkin about!

[LOGDOG]

Here's a good long video on the subject. If you've not researched the subject before in depth, there should be some stuff in here that makes you start thinking.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Gold through the roof and the stockmarket in the basement what a great day!   And I am no richer or poorer.  What a deal!  Folks in London going crazy.

[gunman63]

I'll take gold and silver any day, one good example ....a few months ago on pawn starts a guy trade his old car, for $90000 in gold, whan it was about $1200 a ounce, now that its 1800  thats a 50% increase, tough to do that good on anything else, now if he sells it or holds it is another story

[Ernie]

I recall, when I was but a lad, that the Americans were coming over the border to the banks in Canada and buying up as many dimes as they could get their hands on.  It appeared that the silver in the dimes was worth a whole lot more than  10 cents.

[LOGDOG]

  Gold through the roof and the stockmarket in the basement what a great day!   And I am no richer or poorer.

Well, at least you broke even today Arky. That's better than some folks did in the market. 

[ARKANSAWYER]

  I just checked and the price of lead is climbing and has been the last 30 days.  I am getting richer.    Brass and steel were up as well.  Good news, good news!  Seems I made good investments.

[LOGDOG]

Well there you go Arky! Actually, I believe you're right on that ..(brass and lead going up). I was at Bass Pro Shops this last weekend briefly looking at reloading supplies for my 300 Mag. Dang! Supplies have gotten expensive! To buy the shells for that thing I'm looking at minimum of $30.00/box up to about $55.00/box. When I looked at reloading supplies I couldn't see how that could be much more economical by the time you add up all the components and then add your time.

[tcsmpsi]

Yep...all those buckets of brass and reclaimed lead from the range are becoming more valuable every day.   

[Corley5]

If society breaks down owners of gold will only be able to keep it as long as their brass, lead and powder holds out.  So what's worth more 

[pappy19]

While I do have a few gold coins and a bunch of different mining stocks/mutual funds, I personally think a couple of sacks of "junk" silver coins is a good hedge. Junk silver is just pre-1964 silver coins in circulated condition. They usually sell for the spot market plus a small percent. If things turn to crap, the older silver coins will be the money of the future. Plus, you can only make and grow so many things and then it's either barter or trade, and trading for a silver dime or quarter is a lot easier than a wooden nickle.

Pap

[LOGDOG]

I agree there's good potential in Silver. 

[Larry]

So did the Hunt boys

[SwampDonkey]

Thing about silver is it tarnishes, gold stays nice and shiny. 

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Yea Pap but I can make wooden nickles.  I have been in the thinking that the .22 mag is the best hedge if everything goes south. 
  Nightly news was talking about how much the stock market swung this week and finshed about 150 points below where it started the week.  I believe that silver would be better to deal with then gold.  Since I have some time on my hand I will go look for the lost Dutchman.

[Banjo picker]

Only thing is Arky, I have heard people say "Don't take no wooden nickles."  I have never heard them say not to take a silver dime....   Tim

[rockman]

Arky, I couldn't agree more, especially about the lead and brass. I hope it doesn't get as bad as they say it will.

 Kevin

[LOGDOG]

Ron Paul just said in his speech at the Straw Poll that, "It's still on the books that only gold and silver can be legal tender."

[SwampDonkey]

Harder to collect tax if it ain't legal for barter.

[LOGDOG]

But that's the thing SwampDonkey, it's the only thing that is considered "legal" tender. The paper today would have been considered counterfeit back when those documents were written.

And yes, it would be harder to collect tax if that's what we used. Let's go with that..... 

[Ron Wenrich]

So, how do you explain the penny?  Its always been copper, as well as a 2¢ piece.  Even had a 1/2 cent for awhile.  And the new pennies have zinc in the middle. 

The Legal Tender Act of 1862 allowed the US to print US Notes that were backed by US securities.  It was upheld by the supreme court in many battles from 1871 to 1884.

The Coinage Act of 1965 said US coins and currency are all legal tender for debts, public charges, dues and taxes.  States and businesses aren't mandated to take it as payment for goods or services.

[Cedarman]

"States and businesses aren't mandated to take it as payment for goods and services"

Does this mean that they can take other forms of payment or that they do not have to take cash if they do not want to?  My money says it is legal tender for all debts public and private.  Can a business refuse to accept my cash as payment and require me to use a credit card?  I am thinking that before the purchase they can require whatever form of payment they want.  But if we have a bill come due, then we can always use cash money to pay it if we choose to.

[Ron Wenrich]

That's what I get from it.  $100 bills are legal tender, but that doesn't mean a business has to take it for a 10¢ piece of bubble gum.  They also don't have to take 10,000 pennies for a $100 charge. 

[LOGDOG]

 Quote from Ron Paul:
Ron Paul: No, I think your point that you’re making is right. You’re still going to have certificates or you’re going to have electronic entries. There are people today who are trying to promote this idea through electronic gold, but the problem is the legal tender laws force us to use dollars in all settlements, so one of my goals in Washington to move in that direction would be to repeal legal tender laws. Actually, all we need to do is obey the Constitution because it’s still very clear it hasn’t been repealed that only gold and silver can be legal tender. Believe it or not, they don’t even obey the Constitution anymore.
http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-02-01/going-back-to-the-gold-standard/  ...video and transcript found on the link.

[SwampDonkey]

I was at a market at a recreational centre in Maine one time. They wouldn't make change on purchases. The scam was that you had to go to the concession stand for a hot dog or something to make change. I left that place after giving them a few words.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Well there is not enough gold and silver to go around for legal tender but I barter more every day.
  There are some who tell me that I am just worring about nothing and the sky is not falling.  "It can not happen here" is a fine belief.  But when you look at history it can happen any where at any time.  Just let the stock market have another bad week or two and when the GOV can not borrow more money to "bail" them out what is going to happen?   This morning the news was talking about a slow down in the recovery and that we may be in a double dip after the recovery of 2010.  We are a bit behind times here but we missed the recovery of 2010.  They were talking the gas was going to drop $0.50 a gal due to low oil prices and low demand.  Do not need gas when you have no job to go to and no money to go and do any thing else.
  The sky may not be falling but she is getting pretty DanG low.  A motto I learned in the Army was "Prepare for war but, pray for peace!"

[LOGDOG]

I would totally agree with you ARKY that it "can" happen. I include it in my thought process, although I try not to dwell on it if that makes sense. In my own life I've found that dwelling on it tends to make me more pessimistic and pull my spirits down.

My personal thoughts on an uprising? It won't be the stock market having another bad week or two that leads to riots in the streets (unless it was horrendous). What will bring the riots in the streets is when the Government finally realizes it cannot continue paying all these entitlements to people that don't want to work or pay for them. All these people who are on the Gov't teat will be ticked off. Just look at how the teachers revolted in WI when they were told they needed to pay "something" towards their retirement benefits. And teachers for the most part, (one would think) are decent law abiding, civil people. But that turned them into raging lunatics that were telling people to pray for the death of Governor Walker. Nice huh?

Other scenario .... The USA and our dollar gets removed as the World Reserve Currency just  like the British Sterling did about 60 years ago. Now we can't print money like we are. Prices here go up, taxes go up, people's money is devalued. You want to talk about people being upset? That'll do it.

I agree, to say that it "can't happen" is foolish. Of course it can. It's happened all over the world for centuries. Two books that I recommend y'all read. "End Game" by John Mauldin  and "This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly" by Ken Rogoff and Carmen Reinhart.

Money has an inescapable law built into it: Handle it poorly and it goes away from you. Handle it well and it multiplies. The Government and the Federal Reserve Bank have not handled it well. By the way, the Federal Reserve Bank is neither "Federal" nor does it have "Reserves". Did you know that?

[LOGDOG]

I found this video interesting this afternoon. It's the history of the American Dollar.



...still looking for part 2.

[Dean186]

Interesting video - thanks for posting.

I found part 2, but received the following message:


"Money - A Brief History Of The American Dollar - Part 2 of 2"
This video contains content from EMI, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

The link is:

http://www.youtube.com/user/JohnFromChicago#p/a/u/1/FbyQB8e-rQg

[LOGDOG]

Yep, that's the same message I got Dean. Maybe I'll subscribe to his channel and ask if there's a way to get part two. I thought part one was very interesting.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Maybe then we do not need much gold.  The silver and gold gets to be worth more then the dollar is worth less which is what we are seeing.  When a man will work all day for a silver dollar and he can buy a new truck for 300 of them then things will be adjusted.  Work all month for a double eagle and you are doing well.  I liked the video and it was very good information.  My GrandPa used to hack ties for 2 bits each.  If he made $300 a year he did was comming on up.

[LOGDOG]

How much was a "bit" back then Arky?

[Cedarman]

2 bits, 4 bits, 6 bits,  a dollar, all for the forum stand up and holler

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

"States and businesses aren't mandated to take it as payment for goods and services"

Does this mean that they can take other forms of payment or that they do not have to take cash if they do not want to?  My money says it is legal tender for all debts public and private.  Can a business refuse to accept my cash as payment and require me to use a credit card?  I am thinking that before the purchase they can require whatever form of payment they want.  But if we have a bill come due, then we can always use cash money to pay it if we choose to.

The local Enterprise auto rental operation will not accept cash. They will only take credit cards, debit cards and "approved" local checks...

[LOGDOG]

PC-Urban_Sawyer ...interesting you bring up Enterprise. I just rented a Lincoln MKX from their. While I was waiting I heard them say on the telephone that if you're using a debit card you have to bring in two different utility bills that show you're current. Neither bill can show an overdue balance owed etc. Seemed a bit offensive to me. Like you had to prove you're not a dead beat just because you were using a debit card.

[SwampDonkey]

They want credit cards and such in case you steal or trash the car, they can charge your card for damages. With cash, you are gone and someone has to hunt you down. That's the logic behind it.

[Magicman]

They want credit cards and such in case you steal or trash the car, they can charge your card for damages. 

I guess that option must be in the rental agreement??

[LOGDOG]

....And what if you have an insufficient credit line on your card to cover the possible damage? Then they're in the same boat ...hunting you down again.

[Dodgy Loner]

True, but unless you stole the credit card that you gave them, they know who you are. There is a lot more anonymity involved if you are using cash. All you would need is a fake driver's license to get out of the lot with a car without them knowing who you are. Requiring the credit/debit card or check just adds one more barrier to make the transaction more secure. Although I'm not sure why they wouldn't do like hotels do - let you pay in cash, but leave a credit card in case of "incidentals".

[SwampDonkey]

Hunting you down, in the context I was using it, means you are anonymous and/or using fake ID. If it's a legit credit card, cheque or debit card they know where to come looking.

[ARKANSAWYER]

Well again today the stock market went down and Gold hit a new record. 
  I went to a gas station up in MO a while back and they would not take cash.  Check or card but no cash.  They would even take a out of state check but no cash.  Here in town we have a station that will take cash or checks but no cards.  Me I am going cash or barter.