Author Topic: natural gas home station (Read 1859 times)

red · « **on:** July 15, 2011, 11:26:49 am »

i like the idea of refueling at home with the gas line we have from the street but i do not like leaving it hooked up over nigjt also we may be selling this house and i would throw in the cng vehicle too

Al_Smith · « **Reply #1 on:** July 15, 2011, 11:47:39 am »

Is that legal ?

red · « **Reply #2 on:** July 15, 2011, 12:00:34 pm »

yes it could be instaled in two weeks

LOGDOG · « **Reply #3 on:** July 15, 2011, 12:22:25 pm »

You should do it. T. Boone does it. What a great selling perk for the house. It would definitely set it apart from the other homes for sale. Great idea.

chevytaHOE5674 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 15, 2011, 12:32:10 pm »

Is there some sort of meter on it so that you pay the applicable road tax for that fuel?

red · « **Reply #5 on:** July 15, 2011, 12:44:56 pm »

i am typing on my cellphone so i can not link you to any sites but i hate paying at a local station and then seeing hit ten cents cheaper i just want the home station safe and not have a new one come out to make mine obsolete

LOGDOG · « **Reply #6 on:** July 15, 2011, 12:52:48 pm »

My neighbor that works for Centerpoint Energy was telling me that in LA they have a sticker that you get. They record the mileage on the vehicle and you pay the appropriate tax due when you update the sticker. If you operate without the sticker though and get caught, they tax you on the entire mileage of the vehicle.

So that's apparently one way of addressing road tax in LA. Not sure about other areas.

shelbycharger400 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2011, 09:51:14 pm »

logdog... just drive an old veh , and know how to "reset" the odometer

pineywoods · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2011, 10:07:54 pm »

Sorry to throw cold water on this idea. Sounds good at first glance. There's a few gotcha's. You can't just run a hose from your house gas line to the tank on your cng vehicle. Pressure on the house gas is less than 1 or 2 psi. Gotta pump that up to 3500 psi to fuel up. In other words run a big expensive pump all night long. Electric bill will go through the roof. Better to use the juice to charge a big battery and go electric.

chevytaHOE5674 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2011, 10:12:09 pm »

Quote from: shelbycharger400 on July 19, 2011, 09:51:14 pm

logdog... just drive an old veh , and know how to "reset" the odometer

Good idea, take money away from the highway departments. I mean our roads are in terrible shape now so why not take money away from them so they can only get worse. $:-\$

shelbycharger400 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2011, 10:50:40 pm »

all road work is "done" on sealed bid one road by my parents house, has been torn up, still not done, and its been 2 years ! and its only 7 miles long. government contracts ... milked out...ect ect.... winds up costing us more, in extra driving around all the work site. few years ago, In mn.. around 2005. they passed a newer tax law, on all new veh sales ... to put into the highway division.. not much changed, few years ago, a dollar hike in licence tags... so the highway patrol gets new cars.... I have yet to ever see a cop car that is more than 4-5 years old, take a road trip down south... theirs 1970's big blocks roaming , the diplomats, cordovas, chevy novas.. camaros...ect ect ect..

Yes ... im a firm believer in taking back! because they have taken more than we will ever get back out of it.
I dont feel bad for someone standing holding a road sign makin 10-25 per hour... or a plow operator makin 25-50 per hour. more to them. minnesota, their is over 50 cents to the gallon... just in road tax. then theirs the new vehicle b/s deal... cant remember how much goes to highway dept. their is a lot of miss use of funds! and i can ramble/ list many
biggest that *pithed me off... was when i overheard a worker at the county building, asking to use the county car to go to target , then *pithed and moaned bout 2 min later comming back in the building that the car was out of gas. , county workers/ police departments driving gov cars to their personal home.. i pay for their gas to leasure drive home on.

LOGDOG · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2011, 11:22:15 pm »

Re: CNG home filling stations ... It's available today. This article: http://arkansasnews.com/2009/10/26/fill-%E2%80%99er-up-at-home-cng-refueling-station-a-first/ discusses it. It's just painfully slow. I did meet a gentleman here in Shreveport at a Haynesville Shale expo where I was in the room with T.Boone Pickens discuss the matter. This gentleman told T.Boone that he had invented a similar filling device that accomplished the task in half the time. (T. Boone had commented that he leaves his Civic hooked up to fill overnight.

Some other interesting tidbits .... https://www.plumbersstock.com/fuelmaker.html

Just Google CNG Home Filling Stations. Lots of articles come up.

We could put one in our place today if we had a vehicle that ran on CNG. But it'd just be easier for me to drive into town to one of our CNG stations that pumps it at 3600 psi lickity split and be off and running.

The day is coming when it will be that easy for most Americans.

DouginUtah · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2011, 12:40:32 am »

Just don't try to drive across Wyoming in a natural gas powered car.

gunman63 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2011, 09:25:31 am »

Quote from: shelbycharger400 on July 19, 2011, 10:50:40 pm

all road work is "done" on sealed bid one road by my parents house, has been torn up, still not done, and its been 2 years ! and its only 7 miles long. government contracts ... milked out...ect ect.... winds up costing us more, in extra driving around all the work site. few years ago, In mn.. around 2005. they passed a newer tax law, on all new veh sales ... to put into the highway division.. not much changed, few years ago, a dollar hike in licence tags... so the highway patrol gets new cars.... I have yet to ever see a cop car that is more than 4-5 years old, take a road trip down south... theirs 1970's big blocks roaming , the diplomats, cordovas, chevy novas.. camaros...ect ect ect..

Yes ... im a firm believer in taking back! because they have taken more than we will ever get back out of it.
I dont feel bad for someone standing holding a road sign makin 10-25 per hour... or a plow operator makin 25-50 per hour. more to them. minnesota, their is over 50 cents to the gallon... just in road tax. then theirs the new vehicle b/s deal... cant remember how much goes to highway dept. their is a lot of miss use of funds! and i can ramble/ list many
biggest that *pithed me off... was when i overheard a worker at the county building, asking to use the county car to go to target , then *pithed and moaned bout 2 min later comming back in the building that the car was out of gas. , county workers/ police departments driving gov cars to their personal home.. i pay for their gas to leasure drive home on.

A cop car , 4-5 years old, most of the time they are that old they are worn out, the up keep is more than the car is worth, want them to be out on patrol and break down when theres a call, they run the used county ones thru a auction up here, they go very cheap, they are junk, anit worth fixing, good for derby cars tho.
to me its a good deal for them to bring the cars home, they are on patrol till the time they get home for work, and when they leave in the morning, also a good idea to have cars scattered around the county, think if they get a call at nite weather its a car crash, or a break in or a domestic, the cop has to get up,go to town, get the car, go to the call more often then not the way they just came from.
MN gas tax is 31.6 cents
fed is 18.4 cents
total of 50 cents still anit enough, we need way better roads all over this country

shelbycharger400 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2011, 05:09:02 pm »

didnt mean to hyjack this thread, but on the subject of taxes.. and wasteful spending

city of rogers mn.... they buy Brand new cars every year for their fleet. i dont understand how the southern states for a while were buying thes 3-5 year old cars from here...and bringing them down south . i hope someone from the south chimes in

MN gas tax is 31.6 cents
fed is 18.4 cents

so every week if im driving just to work 25 miles one way to work. 5 days a week, my stratus gets 26 mpg, . i spend around .78 a week with 50cents on the gallon equates to 20.8 in taxes, just in gas. now come in august, it will be more due to me drivin another 25 miles round trip to work to the college then home. we are all taxed to death...then past it. sometime do a complete log of everything you buy, pay tax on ect.... and see how much of your income is gone.. it will make you sick.

gunman63 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2011, 05:32:55 pm »

the city of rogers is buying new cars for there total fleet, or just rotating them some every year? say a 4 or 5 year rotation.

didnt really understand your computing on the gas tax, if u are driving 25 miles one way 5 days a week or 5 miles a day one way. u spend .78 cents a week in gas tax, then later 20.8 cents in gas tax, i didnt really figure this out.

shelbycharger400 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2011, 09:45:49 pm »

oops.... yep...correction . i drive 25 miles ONE way...so its 50 miles round trip a day. thats just to work. looked at my bank report... i spend about $ 78 per week in gas. $ 78 / 3.75 = 20.8 gal at .50 per gal tax.... that equals out to 10.4 dollars in tax per week.

all of the fleet of rogers are changed out... right from the local chevy dealer.

this tax dosnt include gas for my truck, the wood splitter or the chain saw gas. or the gas to mow my lawn once a month weather it needs it or not 1 acre ...taking about 2 gal max. splitter...seems to run forever on 2 gal. truck gets 13mpg.. rarely drive it more than 10 miles one way. not uncommon for me to go through 2 to 3 tanks in the chain saw..for 2 saws to fill the 3/4 ton dodge to the point the wood is stacked higher than the cab tapered back, on overloads.

.... good ol 318/ 727 and dana 60 with 4 .11. if i could convert this truck to something cheap, rarely drives on the tar. and sits more than i drive it.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2011, 05:04:36 pm »

At the risk of sounding pessimistic about some of these things a point might be made here .

Just how many people living in the US and Canada would feel safe with a cannister holding liquid natural gas at 3600 PSI ? Along the same lines of hydrogen for auto fuel .I mean think about it ,very few people alive today that remember the Hindenberg incident but never the less they don't trust the stuff .

I know before any affectionado of this stuff rebuts but never the less I know human nature too .It would take a reincarnation of PT Barnum to ever sell this stuff to the American public .

red · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2011, 06:28:33 pm »

p t barnum meet t boone pickens

LOGDOG · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:09:48 pm »

Al ...there's probably more risk from having a propane kitchen stove in your house than having a CNG filling apparatus in the garage. As long as it's been through the paces in the R&D department of the manufacturer and you respect it, like any other tool in your home, I doubt it's gonna jump off the wall and bite you.

T. Boone probably sleeps just fine at night.

chevytaHOE5674 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2011, 08:33:24 pm »

Quote from: LOGDOG on July 23, 2011, 07:09:48 pm

T. Boone probably sleeps just fine at night.

Because his bed is stuffed with 100 bills and his home CNG refueling station is in the garage. Which has its own mechanic to watch it and is 1/4 miles from the house. hahaha

Al_Smith · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2011, 08:53:12 pm »

That's probabley got a lot of merit to it Logdog .Now sell that idea to the American public .

Let me tell you it will fly about as good as a lead balloon .People in the US of A have been scamed so much they don't trust anyone ,anymore .Just a fact .

LOGDOG · « **Reply #22 on:** July 23, 2011, 09:45:23 pm »

You're smart chevytaHOE5674 ....separate garage is definitely another added layer of protection.

I still trust people Al.

It's not America's distrust that will hold this technology back, it's their apathy.

shelbycharger400 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 23, 2011, 09:53:31 pm »

i know i wouldnt be scared of a tank under the car. not any worse than totin round 15 gal of instand fire ball with gasoline should a bad enough accident happen, or if and when a gas line ruptures and sprays on the exh manifold.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #24 on:** July 24, 2011, 11:08:10 am »

Certainly in some situations LNG would be an option .However just like the hybrids and plug ins or diesels for that matter it won't appeal to the masses .

I mean if you raise corn or soy beans of course you'd tout ethanol or bio-diesel .If you were engaged in natural gas then obviously you'd be a champion of LNG . Not pointing fingers here because collectively they will all work to some degree . No praticular one by itself will solve the problem .

submarinesailor · « **Reply #25 on:** July 25, 2011, 06:28:32 am »

Al,

I was hoping that this technology was going to come to market sooner than later. But, it looks like they had a setback. The technology is using charred corn cob to store natural gas at lower pressures.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2010/aug/16/mu-tries-again-with-corncob-idea/

Bruce

Kansas · « **Reply #26 on:** July 25, 2011, 08:43:54 am »

People have a herd mentality. What else could explain the pet rock's popularity some years ago? Once a few people go with natural gas, and they start talking about the money they are saving, that will spread quickly. I don't think I would be more scared of natural gas than gasoline. However, I think the real wave of the future will be high speed refueling stations, rather than home refueling stations. Economically, it makes more sense. A bunch of people using one station as opposed to someone filling up once every few days to a week, makes more sense. I would think personal refueling stations would be more like it is with business and farms. It would make sense to have a refueling station on a farm or business, especially one that has equipment like loaders, skid steers and such, than having a home one, unless the savings from avoiding road tax will pay for the station.

I do think plug in hybrids for passenger vehicles will be the wave of the future. Either the price of gas will spike up, or they will get the cost down on the vehicles. They have slowly released the Chevrolet Volt and there is a lot more demand than cars. A lot more models are in the works. Combine that with natural gas, you can have some pretty cheap driving. The problem is the initial cost of the vehicle. But with volume, that cost should come down.

Wonder when one of the major tractor companies will come out with a natural gas option for new tractors.

LOGDOG · « **Reply #27 on:** July 25, 2011, 05:07:56 pm »

Cha-Cha Cha-Chia!!!!!

Al_Smith · « **Reply #28 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:03:06 am »

Quote from: submarinesailor on July 25, 2011, 06:28:32 am

Al,

The technology is used charred corn cob to store natural gas at lower pressures.

Bruce

Now therein lies another problem, world wide shortage of corn cobs .For the last 40 years the cobs got spit out the back of the combines and scattered on the fields along with the corn fodder .The haven't used row pickers since the mid 60's . On the other hand John -Deere could make another fortune designing and selling corn cob picker uppers I suppose .

Kansas · « **Reply #29 on:** July 27, 2011, 08:51:18 am »

If I'm not mistaken, the move to make ethanol out of corn cobs has already moved that direction. POET is putting in a plant in Iowa, that will use them. Whether the cobs are harvested after the corn is shelled, or at the same time, I am not sure. I can't imagine after, unless they were just baling all of the leaves and everything with it. A friend of mine puts up what he calls earlage, which uses both the cob and the corn,and packed in a pit silo. That is harvested with a silage chopper,but I believe they just harvest the ears. They harvest at around 35% moisture. Its ground at the silo. With the cobs for roughage, and high moisture corn, he is getting great results on feeding out cattle.

The question is, is it economically feasible for ethanol? Intuition to me says no. The cost of harvesting, hauling, and what you get out of them, as opposed to putting organic material and a little bit of fertilizer value back in the ground doesn't strike me as balancing out. But, someone must have done the math and figured it would work.

beenthere · « **Reply #30 on:** July 27, 2011, 11:28:34 am »

Cob collection has been shown by Deere and others.

(a lot of talk in this video)

Another link

http://www.no-tillfarmer.com/pages/News---Deere,-Hillco-Design-Corn-Cob-Collector.php

Norm · « **Reply #31 on:** July 27, 2011, 01:08:11 pm »

The one I saw shot out of the back of the combine into a modified baler. I've yet to be convinced this is anything that will survive without a bunch of subsidized money behind it.

sandhills · « **Reply #32 on:** July 27, 2011, 03:13:29 pm »

Norm, I agree completely. One of our neighbors tried one last fall, I believe it was made by Vermeer, not only looked like a pain in the but, but also cost a lot of money. The cob piles were still at the end of the fields months later, not sure if they're still there or not. We have a few folks around here that still pick a little ear corn and they still have the cobs, think it costs more to get rid of them than they're worth.
On a different note, why does the natural gas have to be pumped at such high pressures? We have a couple tractors that burn propane and just fill those by bleeding off vapor, which I understand wastes some fuel, but I've never been around natural gas,just wondering.

beenthere · « **Reply #33 on:** July 27, 2011, 04:55:21 pm »

Here is some info from Wikipedia about the natural gas as LNG and CNG (liquefied vs. compressed). Also mentions the adsorbed natural gas possibilities. Interesting that CNG is heavily used in Brazil, Pakistan, and India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_natural_gas#CNG_compared_to_LNG

LOGDOG · « **Reply #34 on:** July 27, 2011, 06:06:34 pm »

I snapped this picture at a stop light yesterday. It was about half a block from the CNG filling station in Bossier City. Lot of these running around. This is a Chesapeake Energy fleet truck. I tried to get a picture of the side door but didn't have enough zoom and angle to get it.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #35 on:** July 27, 2011, 06:55:54 pm »

Was that lettering on the back of that intended to be a warning sign ?

LOGDOG · « **Reply #36 on:** July 27, 2011, 08:54:06 pm »

Ha! More like advertising.

The future is now.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #37 on:** July 28, 2011, 05:45:04 am »

Quite possibley this use of natural gas will be applied to just such certain things ,namely fleet users .That's the way propane went or at least in this area .

In that case and in my opinion it should work well for them .I don't however see it becoming the fuel of choice for the average auto user .Then again not everybody burns firewood either if you want to look at it like that .

People in general will use what is most conveniant for them ,supply and cost of course factored into the equation .

News:

Author Topic: natural gas home station (Read 1859 times)