Author Topic: Need an Axe (Read 8403 times)

Scott · « **on:** January 07, 2004, 02:21:15 pm »

Hi there, I'm looking to buy a new double bitted axe. i've looked around the net and saw some pretty nice lokking axes but i'm not sure on thier quality. I've come across collins, plumb, snow & neally, peavy, union, barco, olympia, and vaughan. i know collins and plumb used to be good names, are they still good or have they gone downhill? Thanks alot.

SasquatchMan · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2004, 07:00:32 pm »

Hey Scott, as a Canuck, you have access to the fabulous axes from Lee Valley - Iltis makes a double bit axe that looks like a real beaut - their forging is really nice, and the bits are thin and strong. about $100 bucks I think.

LV also sell the Gransfors axes, but I believe the double bit Granfors axe is more for throwing...and it's super expensive.

Stan · « **Reply #2 on:** January 08, 2004, 06:14:20 am »

Vaughn was the standard hammer for carpenter's when I was one, in CA. :-/

Scott · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2004, 01:30:38 pm »

Thanks Sasquatch, the Iltis is just what I was looking for. I've herd of thier good quality but i never knew they made a double bitt. I like the nice wide blades on them. Chances are i'll buy one soon. I looked at the gansfors axes but like you said they were more of a throwing style.
Stan, when i looked at the vaughan axes i got the impression that they were poor quality, i'll have to take another look.

Swede · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2004, 02:32:32 pm »

40 years ago, a man in this village hit his own ear (just one of them i think) with an axe.

It must have been a double one or how could he else do that trick successfull?

Stan · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2004, 04:00:40 pm »

Scott, that is gettin' close to 40 years ago, I can't be held responsible for what happened since then. The hammers still look good, but nobody buys them any more. Everything is staples now.

qatanlison · « **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2004, 10:35:30 am »

Scott, before you do something you'll regret, buying a new double bit that is, check out the old ones at ebay.

I've been falling and bucking with axes since the mid 1990 and tried every axe there is to try. My favorite for falling is a Kelly axe, made in Charleston in the 30'. I also pack a Kelly VULCAN, Mann Knot Klipper, Kelly Perfect and so on - and all was bought through ebay. These old ones has gone for around 10$ and compared to new ones the quality in the steel and forging is only to be found in Gränsfors bruks axes but at 100$+... I also make my own handles, as double-bit ones are not to be had in my country... And double-bit is the way to go. I could talk all day about how to sharpen it, hang it, how to make the perfect handle - its dimensions and on and on...
Please let me know what you get and I'll help you out dressing it to be a winner!

Scott · « **Reply #7 on:** January 10, 2004, 03:55:07 pm »

Qatalilson, most of the kelly axes I see on ebay or in really rogh shape :-/, there is the occasional good one on there. Theres also a really nice Norlund head on there right now that I wouldn't mind buying. Chances are i'll end up going with the Iltis If you think the Iltis is a bad move please tell me, but from my understanding theyre a really good axe. I look forward to getting advise on how to set my axe up perfect.
Swede, I herd of a guy close to here who was splitting firewood in his backyard with a double bitted axe. anyway when he went to swing the axe but it hit a clothes line, bounced back and hit him in the head but he was ok. Wasn't the smartest guy I guess.

SasquatchMan · « **Reply #8 on:** January 10, 2004, 04:15:09 pm »

qat, you're right about the quality of so so many tools these days... it's like forging is a lost art. The Gransfors axes are of course a throwback in terms of quality - they are great, but $$$. These iltis units are much more of a mass produced thing, but they have a pretty good steel in them - as it says in the ad line - the bit is literally only 1/4" thick 2" behind the edge.

Scott - you can buy an iltis from Lee Valley, and use it for 3 months, and then return it if you don't like it. Their return policy is very friendly, and it can be so because most of their stuff is as good as they say it is.

qatanlison · « **Reply #9 on:** January 11, 2004, 04:36:07 am »

About the ebay axes, look for the ones with bad logos and stamps, they're worth nothing for the collectors... The ones I've bought sure wasn't mint, but with some filing and grinding they've come out looking good I think. Last winter I split some frozen and sandy old pine, after one cord the Knot Klipper still shaved hair from my under-arm.
About the Iltis, 1/4" wide 2" from the bit sounds good, if it runs on a 5 degrees angle and then to a 10 degrees angle 1" from the bit. The angles is what counts, I have an axe that run 10 degrees from the eye-bulge all the way to the bit, guess if that one eats into the wood. The race-axes for instance, are 1" across the eye and runs at a constant angle down to the bit and thus are ridiculously sharp - and thin. You can check out my axes on http://home.swipnet.se/qatanlison/axes.htm they are described fron top to bottom (in swedish)

/ola

Stan · « **Reply #10 on:** January 11, 2004, 07:12:38 am »

I'd be afraid to shave my underarm, after splittin' firewood with an axe. And it wouldn't be because I might cut myself.

Stephen_Wiley · « **Reply #11 on:** January 11, 2004, 10:40:10 am »

qatanlison,

Looked at your site, but I have to confess I don't know Swedish about the only phrase I may have picked up on was:

"Min favorit för kapning." which I took to mean "My favorite for cutting" is that close for interpretation?

I liked your axes, have you altered your double bit file angles?

qatanlison · « **Reply #12 on:** January 11, 2004, 12:09:48 pm »

Stephen, I just wanted you to know which models I have but I give you a translation:
The first, The VULCAN, is my favourite for splitting heavy, knotty wood.
The PERFECT, I use for knocking wedges, splitting and falling.
The Tuatahi is for use only in knot-free wood, and then only for severing the fibres, falling and bucking that is...
Knot Klipper is used for everything, it has the best quality steel, very hard tempered and a bit lighter than the others. I've hung it with an extremely thin tapered handle to store the most of the energy when choppng - also it preserves your hands...
And finally, my favourite, the Kelly western pattern, used only for falling, bucking and limbing. With its shorter handle its a dream to use when stuck in the limbs...

I've probably altered every angle there is. The ax from the factory was by no means ready for use. What I do first is to thin the bit some 1 1/2" back with a bastard file (for steel) and make it fit my needs - will I use it for falling, splitting and so on. The handle is the most important thing on the axe. Choosing the right hickory is very important. Look for the straight grained second growth ones, fibres parallell to the bits direction. No heart-wood should be present, the dark red/brown often seen in cheap junk handles. The next thing to check is the annual-rings, not more than 17 rings per inch of radius is acceptable. Also most handles you by are way to thick. The old-timers used handles 0.75" thick and 1.19" wide, compare that to most handles found in the stores today... So start paper it down and you will be amazed how nice and well balanced the axe will become. And don't worry, it wont break as long as you hit with the bit and not the handle...

Good luck, and please feel free to ask away if there is anything more you want to know about. I will have opinions, ideas and explanations on every detail on the ax...

Oh, yeah, the angles I use on my falling axes are: 10 on the bulge of the eye. 5-7 on the mid-hollow. 15degrees 1/2" from cutting edge and 20-25 1/16" from the cutting edge. I usually do this to my splitting ones to, as the steel in those are so good they don't seem to mind...

/Ola

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2004, 04:08:49 pm »

Talking about axes.

My uncle was really hard on axes and handles. Those hickory handles that come on axes in the hardware store wouldn't last through the first cord of stove wood choppin. He always prefered handles from ironwood, they would last the longest. I prefer sugar maple handles and I cut my own handles with an axe. I don't split much wood with an axe, have a woodsplitter. But one trip my grandfather took to the states to visit relatives, he picked up an axe down there. It was made in Canada and he thought it would be a good axe. Well my uncle used that axe on a cold february morning to split some stove wood and he struck a block of beech twice. That was all he got to use it, because the metal on the blade was so brittle it broke up in 3 peices. It was made from white metal, pretty brittle stuff.

Quality isn't always in a label

Sawyerfortyish · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2004, 04:50:28 pm »

qat you mention the grain in the handle. I just bought a Tuatahi axe and the handle that they (Baileys)sent me was rough and I beleive the grain is going the wrong way.So I complained and they sent another but same thing. I believe the handle in an axe should have the flat sawed surface on the sides and you should be looking at the quarter sawed edge when you have the axe in hand ready to swing. Does that sound right? Just like putting a handle in a cant hook. If the grain is going the wrong way it wont last long.

qatanlison · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2004, 11:38:09 am »

Sawyer40, I'm not that familiar with the terms of log-cutting, but if you mean that the annual-rings should run in the same direction as the bit/bits, you're right, that's the ideal and if I understand quarter-sawing right, each and every blank should be sawed perpendicular to the rings? Now, while this is the ideal, it's not as important as the fibres are straight throughout the whole handle, and that only sapwood is present, don't use the more brittle heartwood, unless for display...
I also am a proud owner of a tuatahi and that handle was quite crooked. I didn't have the possibility to get a new one, so I made one. Straight, to get the most accuracy out of the axe, hate those curved ones for single bits...
Which one did you buy? How was it ground? The thin "Banana"-style? I actually got the student style as I use mine felling in the woods - don't want to risk that thin edge of a competition ax...

Sawyerfortyish · « **Reply #16 on:** February 15, 2004, 05:07:47 pm »

qat I got the double ground or banana style competition axe as I will only use it for that. As for the handle yes I mean the grain going the same way as the bit of the axe. The two handles I got from Baileys the grain runs opposite from the way it should. Not a very strong handle if you ask me and very very poor rough machining. I won't buy anymore handles from them.

qatanlison · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2004, 05:22:21 am »

Sawyer40, check out www.danhicks.ca, seems he knows what he's talking about considering handles...

Stephen · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2004, 04:06:16 pm »

"Keeping Warm With an Axe" by D. Cook is a book I recently purchased from www.countrymagazines.com

I have enjoyed using an axe since the age of about 10. My Grandfather gave me my first axe at about 14. I have axes I like to use, and others I love to use, some I just like hanging on the wall. This book explains care, sharpening, hanging handles and tell stories of years past. Lots of great information.

(PS. I'm not trying to sell it, just adding to wealth of information on this great site)

Stephen

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #19 on:** February 18, 2004, 04:26:41 pm »

Stephen:

You sound like a lad with the same up bringing as myself. I've had an axe since aged 12 when I used to snare hare and build lean-too's in the bush and build camp fires to boil tea or cook weenies and marshmellows. Used to help grandfather boil sap in the spring time and help split the firewood. I've made a few axe handles myself from hard maple by widdling them with an axe. I guess I've never looked for books on axe care, but sounds like Cook's book could be useful for newcomers and folks like me that abuse them terribly. (I mean the axes)

News:

Author Topic: Need an Axe (Read 8403 times)