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(Last time you sent me a page to fill out the Chinese details & I put '冲劲木业' - 1st letter '冲' - in writing means Chinese with water, in pronounciation similar to 'China'; the 2nd letter '劲' - in writing means power, in pronounciation is 'King'; the last 2 letters '木业' means timber business. I hope you like it.)
Let us know how it turns out
Furthermore, when you guys do the video, please organize it systematically, e.g. introduction about Peru - introduction about Iquitos - introduction about Amazon forest - introduction about the native timber species - about us - about our future plan etc etc. You can simply offer me the clips from varies sources & I will organize the story/presentation from China or Hong Kong. The reasons for the above are:• as a citizen of Hong Kong, holding a company there, I am eligible to apply for manufacturing development grant, so we can use it to expand our factories in Peru• in the future, it can be presented to fund manager for potential IPO ThanksPolly ________________________________________Subject: RE: Species pagesDate: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 22:33:44 +0000Thanks Jim, Among the potential customers I will meet from 14th, there will be an importer that has been importing a lot of Brazilian timber, they said if our price is right, they will take whatever we can produce. The others are from the furniture city in SE China, they are manufacturers & importers, they also said that they will buy everything we can provide if price is right. I haven't formally started my marketing yet !! Initially I'll allow one or two importers/distributors to take the whole lot of produce, but I will not let them control us, because I will set up our distribution so our profit can be maximized. You & David may start planning the expansion so I can line up future orders. Polly
I will say it's much easier for them to sell to us than it is the other way around.
I can't access the video because it has to link with youtube first, as i said, china won't allow access to youtube
In that last picture it looks like a hollow log? Is that a common problem with those trees?
I have met with 2 potential buyers - furniture maker on last friday & flooring maker today sunday. Both are very positive about our products. The furniture maker is interested in numbers 1,2,9 & 10 The flooring maker is interested in 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,14 & 16 Basically, all samples are appreciated here. The one today, the flooring company, will set out a specification for us, & potentially place order for 4 containers (1 specy per container) if the price is right. I'll meet with another furniture maker tomorrow, monday & another floor maker sometime next week. If I'm right, the name for the most expensive Indian timber is called Red Sandalwood Lobular India.
It's a pleasure talking to you on skype. After 3 weeks in China, certain confusions have been cleared & it's time to let you know what I have learnt about the Chinese market, so we can work out our plan of attack. Two major categories Chinese use are 'red timber' or 'white timber'. I am assuming they use the term red timber for the visible parts of flooring , furniture etc. and white timber for fill wood that is not visible. Similar terms are dsed for the two qualities world wide.Historically, Chinese like to use rosewood for furniture because of its color (red) & smell, so, they're expensive.
No. 1 timber for China - Rosewood (also called purple sandalwood), Dalbergia species (or equivalent to African Ppilionaceae species). It has clear & unique pattern, strong good sandalwood smell, longer you use, better the color, smoother the touch. It can resist termites & erosion. So, majority of antiques used these species.
The 2nd tier is Redwood, or Yellow sandalwood (don't ask me why it's called red & yellow...), Guibourtia species, same quality as rosewood but less sandalwood fragrance, more acidic smell. The 3rd tier is South American Chicken wing, Millettia species because of their pattern. It does not have the good smell of the above but it's quite common over there. The one you listed, but no photos or samples, Mari mari (Vatairea guianense) is called 'yellow chicken wing' in China.I am surprised about them importing Mari Mari. It is not a hard dense wood and has a bitter horrible taste to the dust when working with it. We have a lot of it but Yellow heart is a much better choice for furniture or cabinets.
Other than the above, Chinese are selling the followings from South America:• Andira inermis (Chinese called red chicken wing)• Dicorynia guianensis (Chinese called South Amercian teak)• Humiria floribunda (Chinese called walnut cream)• Guaiacumofficimale?? (I think it's sort of mixed up in spanish) Palo santo (Chinese called green sandalwood)
QuoteSo, I have roughly identified 75% of our products, out of that 17 semi-polished samples, in Chinese 'common names'. QuoteSince the top quality rosewood's supply has run out domestically, Chinese have been buying a lot from Vietnam, Laos, Burma, Cambodia, PNG, Africa, Argentina, Surinam & Brazil. Chinese know more about the Asian species than African, South American species because buying from outside Asia only started around 2-3 years ago. In many occasions, South American timber is being sold as 'assorted timber' because they cannot identify the species, so prices are low as to test the market. QuoteChinese are still selling 90% in logs, no matter which country of origin, generally without the bark because it will attract repeated fumigation fees & 30 days custom detention period. It is not legal to ship out logs from Peru or sawn timber over 15 cm in thickness. QuoteI was told that even though fumigation is done in country of origin, it will mandatory be done again in China. So custom clearance requires 15 days in general. The major reason why buying logs are:• Production control - minimise waste Logs take 100% more shipping volume than sawn lumber and the weight of wet wood is four to ten times the weight of kiln dried wood.Quote• Cut to shape for furniture• Convert waste to joins or other products• May mix & match with other inferior timber (i.e. cheating customers, use quality timber to cover inferior one but still sell the furniture as expensive timber product)• Speculation - Chinese stake every, any raw material so to sell at higher price in future When provide quotation to customers, followings are required:• Common name & scientific name• Moisture content, generally around 12% for rosewood• Air-dry density They are not keen on kiln dried timber because they think the timber will dry up or crack during shipping anyway, so save the cost for kiln dried.
So, I have roughly identified 75% of our products, out of that 17 semi-polished samples, in Chinese 'common names'.
Since the top quality rosewood's supply has run out domestically, Chinese have been buying a lot from Vietnam, Laos, Burma, Cambodia, PNG, Africa, Argentina, Surinam & Brazil. Chinese know more about the Asian species than African, South American species because buying from outside Asia only started around 2-3 years ago. In many occasions, South American timber is being sold as 'assorted timber' because they cannot identify the species, so prices are low as to test the market.
Chinese are still selling 90% in logs, no matter which country of origin, generally without the bark because it will attract repeated fumigation fees & 30 days custom detention period.
I was told that even though fumigation is done in country of origin, it will mandatory be done again in China. So custom clearance requires 15 days in general. The major reason why buying logs are:• Production control - minimise waste
• Cut to shape for furniture• Convert waste to joins or other products• May mix & match with other inferior timber (i.e. cheating customers, use quality timber to cover inferior one but still sell the furniture as expensive timber product)• Speculation - Chinese stake every, any raw material so to sell at higher price in future When provide quotation to customers, followings are required:• Common name & scientific name• Moisture content, generally around 12% for rosewood• Air-dry density
But it also works in our favour if we charge by tons for logs selling. They are all prepared for the cracks but of course we will have better name & sales if our timber's crack is minimum.
Selling price differs with great variance. Chinese are selling locally RMB4,000 (USD600) per ton or cbm for red sandalwood (Dalmata, Brazilian Cherry).
One advertisement I saw was USD920 per ton C&F China, mimimum order 26 tons. But for Burmese redwood species, they are selling RMB5,000 - 9,000 (USD700 - 1,300), Laos species are being sold at RMB12,000 - 20,000 (USD1,700 - 3,000).
Two ways of measurement being used in selling timber in China - tons or cubic meters (CBM). I worked out pretty much the same in terms of weight or measurement. If I use the above figures USD920 x 26 tons = USD23,920 which includes the container fee. If I use the figures based on FOB USD1,200 per cbm x 18 cbm per container, it will be USD21,600 plus container fee, generally about USD2,000. Therefore, if cost for production is around USD8,000, that means gross profit per container is around USD12,000. Hopefully we can buy 4 tractors after 2 weeks x 4 containers' loading.
For shipping, shipping company charges either by measurement or by weight, whichever is greater. Jim may know about the following terms but I still put it for David:• FOB - Free on Board (price for goods only) / C & F - Cost & Freight (goods & shipping) / C I F - Cost, Insurance & Freight (goods, insurance & shipping)• Full container loading (FCL) means whole container, generally load approximately 26 tons or 18 cbm• Less container loading (LCL) means you share container spaces with other shipper• CY to CY means container port to port, even door to door delivery• Bill of Lading means the documents issued by shipping company evidencing the cargo is on board - it shows the consigner, consignee & shipment details - key document for collecting money
Quote, please find out the shipping cost, if you can, from Iquitos to China via Houston. I found that Yaco Puma Cargo ship can do shipping from Iquitos to Houston Texas regularly, but I couldn't find out how often & how much, can you find out for me please? The Yaca Puma leaves here every six weeks.QuoteAlso, generally, for FCL, NOBODY, including shipping company, will be allowed to cut the lock for repack (change container) once it's loaded from the original port. Locks can only be cut by consigner or consignee, whoever holds the Bill Lading, in light of safety, & prevention of damage, theft or loss. We can reload the container to a container going to China in Houston if the containers do not leave the restricted area. QuoteI suggest to establish our company in Hong Kong because it's internationally viable in organising Letter of Credit (L/C) especially when dealing with customers. It is also an offshore settlement centre for RMB & foreign currency. It will provide convenience in case clients want to do RMB instead of foreign currency like USD. For David's information, L/C generally involves 4 parties - Consigner, Issuing Bank, Consignee, Advising Bank. In our case, we can receive L/C from china, then I'll do back-to-back L/C to Iquitos so you may use my back-to-back L/C as security to borrow money from Peruvian bank for your operational cost. This is worldwide common practice. Banks in Peru do not anymore borrow money against Letters of Credit. QuoteFor short term plan, I suggest that we do some quick log sales first so to have money for tractors & factory establishment. No log sales are possible. Be prepared that our profit margin will be low because of paying commissions to those 'agents' or 'brokers', we may also have to sell in a discounted price so to penetrate the market. Furthermore, to prevent our competitors' attack, by corrupting the customs to detain our goods, we need to have alliance in Chinese customs to safeguard our interest, that means, certain off record 'entertainment money' will need to be spent. But I'm prepared to use the initial earning for tractors & factory establishment. QuoteIn medium term plan, hopefully in few months time, we can have our nice range of flooring & furniture timber ready for April's Canton Fair promotion. By that time, we will be production capacity ready to widely expand our direct sales & distribution network without paying too much commission or discount. QuoteIn 24 months time, once we have auditable sales record & land ownership certificates (& may add timber concession contracts), we can do IPO in Hong Kong. By that time, we can ask for venture capital to fund the float. I've got an underwriter that will assist in full spectrum. For your information, generally, it costs 2 billion HKD to buy a 'shell' for public listing, & we can do it at about 1 million USD. I also have access to JP Morgan's fund but I'll only consider when our production is on track. QuoteQuoteI believe the above has covered the majority, now it's your turn, Jim, to let me know your thought. Cheers,Polly
, please find out the shipping cost, if you can, from Iquitos to China via Houston. I found that Yaco Puma Cargo ship can do shipping from Iquitos to Houston Texas regularly, but I couldn't find out how often & how much, can you find out for me please?
Also, generally, for FCL, NOBODY, including shipping company, will be allowed to cut the lock for repack (change container) once it's loaded from the original port. Locks can only be cut by consigner or consignee, whoever holds the Bill Lading, in light of safety, & prevention of damage, theft or loss.
I suggest to establish our company in Hong Kong because it's internationally viable in organising Letter of Credit (L/C) especially when dealing with customers. It is also an offshore settlement centre for RMB & foreign currency. It will provide convenience in case clients want to do RMB instead of foreign currency like USD. For David's information, L/C generally involves 4 parties - Consigner, Issuing Bank, Consignee, Advising Bank. In our case, we can receive L/C from china, then I'll do back-to-back L/C to Iquitos so you may use my back-to-back L/C as security to borrow money from Peruvian bank for your operational cost. This is worldwide common practice. Banks in Peru do not anymore borrow money against Letters of Credit.
For short term plan, I suggest that we do some quick log sales first so to have money for tractors & factory establishment. No log sales are possible. Be prepared that our profit margin will be low because of paying commissions to those 'agents' or 'brokers', we may also have to sell in a discounted price so to penetrate the market. Furthermore, to prevent our competitors' attack, by corrupting the customs to detain our goods, we need to have alliance in Chinese customs to safeguard our interest, that means, certain off record 'entertainment money' will need to be spent. But I'm prepared to use the initial earning for tractors & factory establishment.
In medium term plan, hopefully in few months time, we can have our nice range of flooring & furniture timber ready for April's Canton Fair promotion. By that time, we will be production capacity ready to widely expand our direct sales & distribution network without paying too much commission or discount.
In 24 months time, once we have auditable sales record & land ownership certificates (& may add timber concession contracts), we can do IPO in Hong Kong. By that time, we can ask for venture capital to fund the float. I've got an underwriter that will assist in full spectrum. For your information, generally, it costs 2 billion HKD to buy a 'shell' for public listing, & we can do it at about 1 million USD. I also have access to JP Morgan's fund but I'll only consider when our production is on track
QuoteI believe the above has covered the majority, now it's your turn, Jim, to let me know your thought. Cheers,Polly
I believe the above has covered the majority, now it's your turn, Jim, to let me know your thought. Cheers,Polly
Amazon (Forest) Community Sustainable Forest Conservation ProjectPreamble: This agreement has been established for the impoverished forest communities of the Upper Amazon because you cannot tell a hungry mouth or an empty belly not to cut down a tree or kill a wild animal.More ambitious projects, whether they involve the conservation of biodiversity, or the stopping of illegal logging and drug production cannot be realized until the extreme poverty of these forest communities is addressed. The major areas in which poverty can be reduced are through economic growth based on respectable work and social inclusion. This in turn will strengthen democratic governance and social stability, and allow for better access to basic social services and infrastructure.The forest communities want an extension of their community lands so they can plan for their future and the future of their grandchildren in a sustainable commercial manner. Amazon Holdings does not want their lands. What is more, the company will assist the forest community in securing those extra lands that are rightfully theirs. This process will not happen quickly. It will take time.The forest communities had a meeting with their elected Federation Leaders and are aware that this not a quick fix to their problems. Votes were taken and the forests communities have given their approval to their Federation to enter in to a long-term Cooperation agreement with Amazon Holding Limited. The forest communities will be involved in the planning of the Project Development Document. Their needs and concerns will be a major part of the consultation process and planning.The forest communities will be active participants in a sustainable forest management plan which includes environmental services to ensure that it become commercially and financially viable. They will share in the financial rewards this will bring and they will become Stewarts and Custodians of their forests as set out under the guidelines of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) Amazon Holdings Limited has been established in Hong Kong for the express purpose of having direct access to Asian financial institutions, banks, funds mangers, stock exchange, and carbon trading centres and in particularly the booming China market. In addition, Hong Kong people are highly educated and are bi-lingual in (English and Chinese); this is a major advantage when dealing with an international commodity throughout the commercial world. Hong Kong is a major trading centre of Asia and trades daily between the east and western countries around the world. Hong Kong is also an ideal centre from which to raise capital to facilitate major projects for developments or to facilitate the trading of environmental services. What is more the regionally near neighbours New Zealand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Taiwan, y China in addition to Hong Kong itself have all either opened or will be opening emissions trading centers in the near future.Amazon Holdings has the legal and financial reasonability for the Project and will bring highly skilled consultants together locally and from all over the world for facilitating sustainable forest management and the production and marketing of forestry products including environmental services.Amazon Holding respect the rights and practices of Indigenous and Forest Communities under the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP) and all other human rights instruments including that of non-discrimination against women and children and indigenous peoples. The Project will endeavour to operate in recognition of these rights and practices.The people of the forest communities, living as they do amongst one of most biologically diverse and resource-rich regions on the planet, have the right as human beings to be socially and economically included in the booming economic growth that Peru is experiencing. This Project allows them to fulfil that right with the community’s profits from these projects to be spent within the communities themselves as an integrated program of infrastructure development to reduce poverty and improve education, communication, health care, river transport and social and community services. It grants them the opportunity to develop their own environmental resources, in partnership with the private sector as is contemplated in the Law No.27037, Law for the Promotion of Investment in the Amazon, without being subjected to harassment or exploitation from Non-Government Officers (NGOs) and intermediaries.The training element of the Project will be of the utmost importance. It brings an element of gender equality to the Project, to ensure that men and women both, as well as disadvantaged and landless inhabitants, will benefit from the Project. Keeping the people on their ancestral lands by giving them an alternative source of sustainable income also removes the need for them to migrate to urban centres already struggling to provide the necessary infrastructure for ballooning populations, given their under-funded municipal resources. The Communities understand that this capacity building is required, given their long-term commitment to the Project. What is more, the Community understands that accountancy and transparency are very important ingredients to success, and as such, the Project will be annually audited by an internationally recognised entity. What is more, each Community will present a business plan yearly as to how they are going to invest their income for the betterment of their Community; this plan must be complied with and shall be part of that Annual Audit.Working in unison between the private sector and a diverse range of communities, the Project will permit the decentralisation of industries and create jobs through the formation of a new infrastructure that is more efficient, more cost-effective, and more insulated against internal and external corruption. Put simply, this development represents the largest and most ambitious project of its type and the premier example of forest management and carbon sequestration in the tropical world and will allow every child, woman and man of the Communities involved to prosper and participate in the burgeoning economic growth the rest of Peru is experiencing and eliminate the need for people to produce cocaine or operate at the margin of the law to merely subsist in what is one of the most resource rich regions in the world.
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