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Author Topic: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?  (Read 6449 times)

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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« on: June 25, 2011, 01:31:44 pm »
Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question.

My blade guide motor has been acting up. It works great moving the blade guide in towards the sawdust side of the mill. But it can barely move the blade guide out, towards the log loader side of the mill.

I talked it over with the tech at WM and they suggested that I replace the brushes which is a totally new motor end cap. So I ordered one.
I got it yesterday via UPS but there were no instructions in the box telling me how to install it.

Does anyone have these instructions? if there are any printed up from WM.

It would appear that the brushes and the spring that holds them toward the arbor aren't in the correct position, when I opened the box.
I'm assuming that this was a "shipping position", and that they should be "put right" before the end cap is installed.

I have taken a picture of the end cap as it is now before changing anything, but then my camera batteries died and I'll have to recharge a set to get it out to post it here.

I've got to go to town, for mother, and when I get back maybe they will be charged enough.

But if anyone can give me any advice about swapping the end cap for the blade guide motor, that would be nice.

Thanks

Jim Rogers
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2011, 01:53:40 pm »
I had mine off before, to fix a frayed wire where it went inside the end cap.  Don't remember anything unusual about brush placement,  just getting the long bolts lined up right and also vaguely that the brushes had to be held back to get them around the small rotating thing (armature?).  Would expect the ends of the brushes to be curving around the armature.

You and WM probably got it right about the end cap but I wouldn't put it past that guide assembly to run easy one way and not the other if something was up with chain tension or alignment, or if the 4 rollers it runs in ( if yours is like mine) needed slight adjustment.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   W-M LT40SHDD w/42HP Kubota, Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, capstan PortaWinch, W-M CBN sharpener/dual setter. Rens P4000 Metal detector.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2011, 01:55:45 pm »
Jim, I have replaced those in the blade guide and debarker control motors and don't remember it as being much of a challenge.  I realize that I didn't really answer your question, but I would just remove those long screws and the armature should slide out of the brush end so that you can assemble that end.  Those are permanent magnet motors, so things can really jump apart.

I'm speaking from memory, and I think that my memory is what I lost that I miss the most.   :-\
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2011, 02:43:57 pm »
I got groceries to put away, and batteries are charged. So maybe in a little while I take them apart and see what I see....

Thanks for your advice, and answers.

Jim Rogers
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Offline Tom

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2011, 03:27:42 pm »
Jim, before you take the motor off, give it a wrap with a wrench and see if there is any difference in performance.  Sometimes brushes get stuck and fail to make good contact.  This isn't an excuse to run worn brushes, just a technique to use if you think that the brushes aren't worn.
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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2011, 03:41:24 pm »
Even with the rubber boot on the motor, moisture still has a way of getting inside.  Maybe condensing.  Anyway, moisture does bad things.   :-\
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2011, 04:00:26 pm »
No Juice........

Before I'm going to take it all apart, and I probably should have done this last week, when this problem started, I checked with a volt meter to make sure that I had electricity at the motor.

I just checked and there is juice to the out side but no juice, at the motor, to the inside wire.

I opened the control panel:



And there is no juice coming out of the switch.

I got good juice from one position on the switch and the motor moves the blade guide arm, but in the other position no juice and the motor doesn't move the arm.

I'm off to the auto parts store, if I can find one open today this late, to get a new switch.
I looked in my box of spare electrical parts and found one, but this is an old one that I have taken out before, it's junk too in other words.

Here is the picture of the brushes in the shipping position:



I suppose I'll do an internet search and see what stores are open before I drive off.....

Jim Rogers
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2011, 05:00:22 pm »
With the guide arm moving in one position confirms that your motor is OK.  That switch is a double pole three position spring loaded and may be difficult to find.  It reverses the polarity to reverse the motor rotation.  (You knew that already), but someone else may not.

If/when you use that new brush rack, oil that bearing and wick before you insert the armature.  Then release the brushes.  The armature is then inserted through the permanent magnet stator.
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2011, 09:37:43 pm »
Looks like some kind of temporary pin holding back the brushes?
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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2011, 09:52:13 pm »
Looks like the spring end is placed on the inter side of the brushes for shipping. The spring should be placed on the outer side of the brushes before installation.
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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 08:09:43 am »
That's it, the spring on the other end and it rides down that slot as the brushes get smaller.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   W-M LT40SHDD w/42HP Kubota, Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, capstan PortaWinch, W-M CBN sharpener/dual setter. Rens P4000 Metal detector.

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2011, 08:17:37 am »
I'm sure you are correct.
There is a small spot on the end of the brush for the spring tip to engage.

We'll know when I take the end off the existing motor, as I will take a picture of the way that one is set up.

But I won't be doing that until after I replace the switch.

I went to Advanced auto parts with the box that the current switch came in, for them to use the part number, as it is a Napa switch and number, and they told me it would take them from 5 to 10 days to get one in. I told them I could have one from the factory by Tuesday, and to forget it.

I then went to Autozone, and the girl at the counter couldn't find anything like it from that part number.

I'll have to wait until tomorrow morning at 7:30am for my local Napa store to open and see if they have a part on hand. Or how long it will take for them to get me "two". One to put in and one to have on hand for "next time".....

Jim Rogers
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Offline bugdust

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2011, 08:40:52 am »
I'm also having a problem with this motor. It gets stuck and won't move either direction. I was thinking my issue was the brushes too, but the mill still has low hours. Sometimes a tap on the motor or a push/pull on the arm gets it going. It's important to keep the tracks well lubed. My first encounter was on the original LT40, and I found the motor wet inside. I ordered new brushes and installed them, but that wasn't the problem, just needed a good cleaning. The change-out wasn't to difficult, just remember how it comes apart. I've also noticed that small amounts of bark will stall the rollers.
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Offline Larry

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2011, 12:31:27 pm »
And there is no juice coming out of the switch.

I got good juice from one position on the switch and the motor moves the blade guide arm, but in the other position no juice and the motor doesn't move the arm.

I'm off to the auto parts store, if I can find one open today this late, to get a new switch.
I looked in my box of spare electrical parts and found one, but this is an old one that I have taken out before, it's junk too in other words.

That looks like the same DPDT switch as I had on my Kasco mill.  When it would start to fail it would be real intermittent and take a while to diagnose the problem.  I found a replacement at Radio Shack.  They were cheap and only lasted a couple of days...just long nuff to finish a job.  The Kasco switch was much more expensive, but had a lot better contacts and would last a long time.  I would guess the same as WM.

I did find that I could pry apart an old switch to get at the contacts.  If the contacts were not burnt I could buff them with a Dremel and the switch would be good as new.
Larry

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2011, 01:07:43 pm »
That's a fairly generic switch. Basically a Double Pole, Double Throw, Center Off, momentary contact switch. Or in shorthand, momentary contact DPDT-CO. As long as it will fit in the hole on the instrument panel and has the proper terminals (yours look like screw-on) then it will do the job.

On the first mill I ran, the owner could never be bothered ordering original parts, even though they were an overnight delivery item. When his guide motor switch broke, he couldn't find a momentary contact type, so he installed a plain old DPDT-CO switch. That meant you had to shift it back to the center position to stop the motor.

The same switch is used to move the debarker in and out -- I keep one spare on hand "just in case".

I had to take apart my blade guide motor because it stopped working the first winter I owned the mill. Turned out that just enough water had leaked into it to freeze the brushes to the commutator. After I took it apart and dried it out it worked fine. I put a couple of wraps of electrical tape around the joint between the motor body and the end cap to seal it and in four years I haven't had a problem.
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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 01:11:26 pm »
Looks like you need a switch, these motors seem to last. Unless they get moisture in them and are not used. The water gets bewteen the magnets on the motor it creates rust and pushes the magnets away from the case.
Replacing the brushes. Mark the relationship on the motor housing from which is front and back, the magnets are further forward on one side. Watch out for the little washers that are on the ends of the motor. Remove the armature from the assembly with the brushes installed. Look at how the terminals are positioned when you install the new brush end you want it to look the same. Install the new brush end on the armature place the springs on the brushes with a dental pick or small needle nose plyers. Very carefully place the armature in the metal tube with the magnets in it. The magnets will pull the armature out of your fingers and you will need to start all over again so hold tight! There is a grove in the brush end and the tube for location. install the bolts in the asembly. It is a little tricky getting the bolts started because the magnets will pull the bolts anyway but where you want them. Start one of the bolts and do not tighten pull the assembly out so you can see the bolt go into the hole. Once you get the bolts started tighten, check and see if everything works, if you only have one direction and the other blows the curcit breaker you have one terminal grounded.
Hope this helps.
M
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 01:31:46 pm »
a couple of wraps of electrical tape around the joint between the motor body and the end cap to seal it and in four years I haven't had a problem.


Thanks for that tip, I'll do that after I replace the end cap, and I may do it now "just in case"....

Thanks for your advice Marty.

Jim
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Offline Tom

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2011, 03:27:53 pm »
A new LT40HD might fit under that endcap too.  ;D
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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2011, 09:19:07 am »
7:30 am call to local Napa store.

"Yes sir we have one, of those switches you want."

I'll be right over, but I want two, so can you order me another one?

"Yes sir, we'll have it here this afternoon with the afternoon delivery."

Drive over to Napa store.

"The computer lied sir we don't have one here, sorry, you'll have two at 1:30pm for sure....."

Yea, right..... we'll have to wait and see now.....


Jim

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2011, 01:19:18 pm »
Here is an easy way to install the end cap. Pull the brush up so that the end of the brush is even with the brush holder. Move the spring to the side of the brush right at the edge of the top of the brush. This will hold it in place. Repeat for the other brush. Mark the motor housing where the screw holes are. Remove the old brush cap. Install the new cap but leave a slight gap between the cap and the motor. Take a tooth pick or a paperclip and push the brush in until you hear the spring drop in  place. Install the screws and your ready to go.
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2011, 03:57:48 pm »
New blade guide switch installed. Back up switch on the shelf for next time....

Blade guide moves in and out like it's suppose to.

Brushes were not changed......

All is well, now.....

Thanks to everyone for all your advice on this subject.

Jim Rogers
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Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2011, 04:14:52 pm »
You said the good words "All is well, now....."

What is the NAPA part# for the switch?  I may want to get a spare for myself.   ;D
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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2011, 05:00:21 pm »
As with some other momentous dates,  the WM owner won't forget where he was when the in/out switch, or the hydraulic micro-switch failed!!  ::)
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   W-M LT40SHDD w/42HP Kubota, Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, capstan PortaWinch, W-M CBN sharpener/dual setter. Rens P4000 Metal detector.

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2011, 05:40:08 pm »
You are right.  I haven had an in/out switch to fail yet, but I remember exactly where I was, what I was sawing, and who was helping when that hydraulic microswitch failed. 

The fact remains though that I have had very few failures that have stopped me in my tracks. 
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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2011, 06:11:00 pm »
What is the NAPA part# for the switch?  I may want to get a spare for myself.   ;D

TG7071 here is a web page for it:

https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?A=ECHTG7071_0215716198&An=0

(I hope the WM guys don't get mad at me for posting that.....)

Jim Rogers
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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2011, 06:56:02 pm »
Thanks.  I wouldn't think that they would mind.  They just want us happy and sawing.   :)
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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2011, 07:55:01 pm »
You are right.  I haven had an in/out switch to fail yet, but I remember exactly where I was, what I was sawing, and who was helping when that hydraulic microswitch failed. 

The fact remains though that I have had very few failures that have stopped me in my tracks. 
Me neither.  Thanks to WM tech support and to having spares on hand, I've never been down more than 1 hour (and most of that time the customer was looking for a 12V continuity tester).  Another time I was able to finish even with a torn hydraulic line.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   W-M LT40SHDD w/42HP Kubota, Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. LogRite fetching arch, capstan PortaWinch, W-M CBN sharpener/dual setter. Rens P4000 Metal detector.

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Re: Woodmizer blade guide motor brushes question?
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2011, 09:17:44 pm »
I was in my NAPA store Monday.  I intended to buy one of those switches, but didn't.  The spring loaded return was too stiff

I "nudge" that guide arm in and out many times during a sawing day.  I'll stick with the WM switch.
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Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman