Sawing ONE white oak log into flooring...

[Norm]

I have my kitchen and the living room next to it floored with QSWO. I love the stuff, hard as a rock and easy to care for. It's never moved a bit since installed and gets lots of ohhhs and ahhs from company. Mine is all 3 1/2" but I think random width would really add to it.

[ladylake]

Found some more, I knew I had others! 

 

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

 

 A set of forks on the 3 point will lift quite a bit more.     Steve

[scsmith42]

Scott,
No need to worry about disagreeing me.   I'm sure some of the crook in my QS oak boards has to do with my drying situation (Air then Solar Kiln) and the fact that I leave the sapwood on the boards.  My sap boards always dry funny.

I have noticed that perfect QS boards tend to crook and rift sawn dries as a diamond shape.  Is this defect controlable by kiln drying from green?

All of the logs I receive are usually the result of the trees death from disease or growing conditions - typical urban rubbage.  This probably has plenty to do with the stress in my logs and lumber.

Chris, that's an interesting observation regarding the potential impact of sapwood.  I'll check my inventory and see if I can spot a trend, and if there is a difference between QSRO and QSWO. 

It seems as if my widest boards (12"+) dry the straightest, and the narrower ones (<6") are more inclined to crook.  I'm also thinking that stress wood may have a lot to do with it.  Most of my logs have centered piths (when you focus on large logs, they tend to grow straight else they would have fallen down years before).

Dan, do you recall if there was a pattern to your crooked boards? ie - narrower ones were crooked and wider was straight?

[Kansas]

When we true quartersaw white oak, we do logs from 30-36 inches, splitting them in half at the pith, then splitting the two halves. On occasions you see a little movement in one of the quarters, but not a lot. We then true quartersaw those quarters. The narrow boards do indeed have more of a tendency to get crook in them that the wide ones. The wide ones that go all the way from near the pith to the outside rarely move much. But as you get down to where the boards are narrower and off the outside more, the odds are a lot higher they will move. I don't know if its because a wide board will be more inherently stable; if the inner wood holds the outside and whole board straighter. Its not unusual to have some 13-14 inch wide quartersawn. However, that inner 4-6 inches usually have a few knots. Those rarely move at all. We don't trim out those knots because a qs wide board will be the first ones the customers grab, and they will overlook the knots.

[Piston]

Would it be safe to say that if I wanted wider boards, I should quartersaw the log since they may crook less than narrower QS boards?  And for the narrowing stuff, I should flat saw them because they may cup less than wider flat sawn boards? 
Norm, do you (or anyone else) have any pics of your QSWO flooring? 

Also any pics of flat sawn oak flooring (wider the better).  I'd like to see a comparison of the two. 


Also, I currently have all 10 degree blades from WM.  Should I invest in another blade or two for this log, like a 4 degree or something? 

I also have some shagbark hickory that I should be able to get some boards out of.  In your opinions, would a mix of hickory and white oak flooring be a nice mix?  I have read some bad things about hickory drying so are there special considerations to sawing it? 
I think I would like the hickory for the cabinets too, or maybe braces??? I have a couple logs that I can get, but on the better size log there is a large knub from a branch that will be too big of a knot to use in the boards, so I may have to work around that.

[Piston]

Alright, another question before you even answer my last ones 

Should I try and find a kiln around me to dry the lumber? or will air drying it be sufficient?  It will be at least a year and more likely 2 years before it is even used.

Oh and by the way, I just google imaged some pics of oak and hickory flooring.  I am Reeeeaalllyy liking the hickory look when it is flatsawn. 

I still welcome pics though 

[scsmith42]

Piston, regarding drying, because it tends to be cooler where you are you will be ok air drying the oak.  It's always a good idea to run it through a kiln a few weeks before you're ready to machine it, in order to sterilize the lumber as well as bring the MC% down below 10%.

Regarding wide boards, QS is best because it expands/contracts across the width much less than flat sawn.  If you have a 12' long 10" wide QS board that has crooked, simply cut it into two 6' long boards and straight line rip the crook out of it.  You should still be able to net out an 8" wide flooring board that way.

[Dan_Shade]

I think they were pretty much all crooked.  I know it was a major PITA to install

[Norm]

It's hard to get a decent picture of the figure but here's one I just took.



It really doesn't do it justice though.

Get some of the 7° blades for the white oak if you want although the 10's will work.

[red oaks lumber]

norm,
 is that wood you sawed out and had milled?

[Norm]

I wish I could take credit for it but it was purchased from a mill in SW Wisconsin.

Patty, Joel (oldest son) and I installed and finished it. 

[Piston]

Looks nice Norm!  I'm sure it's even better in person.  Thanks for posting the pic.  I'm thinking more and more I want to try QS the oak. 

[scsmith42]

I made an interesting discovery recently, and it relates back to this thread.  In the initial discussion, several FF members that I respect greatly mentioned that their experience with quartersawn oak boards had been that  many of them tended to crook as they dried.  That has not been my experience, and it never made sense to me why my results (even if better) were different than others.

Well, today I found out why, and that is that boards will crook if they have juvenile wood present along one edge, and this explained why my results were different than Metalspinners and others.

Most folks operate bandmills, and the typicaly way that they quartersaw is to literally quarter the log, and then saw each face of the quarter, flipping the cant as they go.  This results in some juvenile pith wood that is typically present along one edge of their boards.

When I quartersaw with my swing blade mill, I ALWAYS box the heart and pull anything between a 4 x 4 to a 6 x 6 out of the log, so there is rarely any juvenile wood present in my boards.  As a result, the boards rarely tend to crook when drying, unless there were internal stresses in the log (and usually these boards start to crook as soon as they are milled).

Glad that I found out the root cause and figured that I'd share it with yall.  This just seemed like some unfinished business to me!

Scott

[pineywoods]

Scott, I do the same thing. After messing with sycamore, I have about concluded that the center 4 to 6 inches of a log is maybe good firewood...

[WDH]

That is exactly right!  The juvenile side shrinks faster and harder than the mature outer edge, voila, crook.  I need to do a better jog of getting rid of the juvenile core, Scott.  I try to maximize every ounce of wood, and that can be very wrong if that last ounce is pith wood.  Old habits die hard.

[Jaybolicious]

I did my bathroom floor two years ago in red oak.  I had 3, 12' logs all around 26- 32" in diameter.  I flat sawed all three logs to exactly 1" and made all the 12" wide boards I could. After letting them air dry for 2 years I installed them in the summer. The boards were slightly bowed length-wise as they dried.  To get them straight I found using a large plane and a chalk line worked the best for me, and a 6' straight edge too.  Amazing how flat you can plane a board and how quickly with a sharp plane. The pine floors I'm doing now are bowed similarly, the pine planes like a dream in comparison.  One thing about the oak is the ray fleck in center cuts, boy are they pretty.   
  The oak did end up with some shrinkage gaps, but nothing that bothers me at all.   

  

  

 

[Piston]

Scott,
Thanks for bringing that up and sharing it with us.  I haven't checked my boards since I stacked and stickered them.  I will check next time I'm there and see if they've crooked at all, if not, it may be worth me trimming off some of that juvenile wood you were speaking of, and re stacking.  I have a table saw sitting right next to my stack so it wouldn't be too difficult. 

Jay,
That floor looks great!