proper direction of tree falling

[REGULAR GUY]

Can anyone help me with advice on falling  Pines (approx. 34 inch dia at base and approx. 130' tall with even branch distribution), leaning very slightly the oppesite  direction of preferred direction because of a bank that would split the trees if felled wrong.  I think wedges would work but I want to be sure. There are only two trees that I'm concerned about so I dont want to break my billfold and spend money I don't have so if anyone could get back to me it would be appreciate it very much. 

Regular Guy
 
                                                                                                                                                           

[bill m]

I have used wedges to tip over pine trees of that size and bigger with up to a 10 ft. back lean so yes, it can be done.

[Banjo picker]

Are the trees live or dead?  Using wedges on a dead tree can cause the hinge to snap.  Tim

[submarinesailor]

Can anyone help me with advice on falling  Pines (approx. 34 inch dia at base and approx. 130' tall with even branch distribution), leaning very slightly the oppesite  direction of preferred direction because of a bank that would split the trees if felled wrong.Regular Guy

Hire a pro with good insurence to get it on the ground and then you can deal with it on your own.  Some thing that big can go crazy on you in a heartbeat.

Bruce

[blaze83]

regular guy,

sounds like a fun day, are you in Ohio? I'd love to come give you a hand if you are close enough. From your description it sounds like it is very doable. It always amazes me how much movement occures with wedges.  some things to consider from my perspective:

1  go slow, your not in a race so take your time
2 i'd make my under cut about 14 inches deep in the 34 inch tree, no deeper than 17 which is half way through
3 make sure the under cut is clean, the cuts line up correctly with no over cutting "dutchman"
4 start the back cut about an inch and a half above your undercut
5 get one wedge started as soon as possible with 2 or 3 more as soon as possible after that
6 with  5 inches of holding wood left all 3 or 4 wedges should be securely started
7 if trees are dead be very aware of falling debre, bark, limbs tops etc from the vibration of  driving the wedges and even the saw
8 at the 4 inch mark of your back cut I would begin to saw a little 1/2 inch and then drive the wedges hard, alternating each wedge with a blow
9 cut a litle more and drive the wedges
10 I would not cut past 2 1/2 inches of holding wood but would turn off the saw and keepdriving the wedges until the tree fell



it takes a little time, but is much better than getting impatient and sawing of your holding wood.

as a side note, if there are structures or power lines around getting a pro to do it is recomended, if all you have as a concern is breaking up the log, I'd  go for it, it is how we learn and get better.

make sure YOU HAVE A CLEAR ESCAPE ROUT sorry for the caps but this is very important and wear chaps hardhat etc. I  was on a job where a guy took a limb on the hardhat, it saved his life, all he had was a concusion and sprained neck

have fun, and if you feel a check in your spirit listen to it and don't proceed


look forward to seeing some pictures


Steve

[maple flats]

You must have 2 escape routes, each about 30 degrees from the direction directly opposite your planned fall. Make sure all other escapes are also clear in case it starts going the wrong way.
Is there any thing important within 135' such as a house, garage etc.? Be very careful cutting both the face side of the hinge and the back cut. If you are asking how my guess is that you do not have a bar long enough to reach thru all the way. It is not mandatory but the in experienced have a hard time making a straight cut, especially on the back. You will tend to cut too deep or not deep enough in the center. Check your saw, there is often a line molded in to sight, at 90 degrees from the bar to aim. Use it, this helps. I have cut lots of trees this big and bigger but the last one I did I cut too deep in the center from one side. This caused the tree to break the hinge and go about 20 degrees from plan. I had the area cleared and no harm was done but none the less it fell wrong and I have Game of Logging training (GOL). If you have no training it might be worse.  Submarine sailor might have the best suggestion. If you do decide to drop it yourself, have a spotter to watch and signal you, but they should be 175'+ away, and you should cut a little then check them, and continue this. Agree on hand signals ahead. This tree is not worth your life.

[REGULAR GUY]

Welp, Got it done and it was a breeze! Pardon the pun!!!!! Sorry I didn't reply for a while but me and computers don't get along none to good. All I needed was a coupla wedges, climbed about 3/4 up and tied off a line with a 3 ton come-a-long just for insurance reasons but didn't need it. Nope I'm not in Ohio, I,m in the "Left Coast" (California). Thanks to all that responded. Reading all these sites on this forum sure is interesting and it's amazing all the stuff a guy can learn. Thanks again gents. Hope ya'll are doin good, workin and makey money.           Regular Guy!

[Ianab]

Glad it went well.

A proper plan and some wedges will get a lot of things sorted, and rigging a line, "just in case" is a good safe belt and braces approach.

Ian

[Banjo picker]

Glad it went well for you.  Tim

[blaze83]

glad to here of the success, post some picks if you took some I usually forget the camara

steve

[Collima]

I'm a third generation logger in my families business.  I've been logging for 20 years.  We have never used or owned a wedge.  We always have a skid steer or skitter on the job. A skid steer can always push a tree in the right direction. If it's too big or leaning too bad we cable it.  Leave a lot of hinge!  Usually goes pretty fast. We even do a lot of street reconstructions in urban environments with overhead lines and lots of structures.

[chevytaHOE5674]

A wedge is a whole lot cheaper and easier to use than having a skid steer or skidder on standby. Also there are many places that the equipment would have a hard time getting too where a simple wedge would get the job done.

[Magicman]

Since I don't have skidders and skid steers, wedges are not optional for me.  They are required, even when they are not needed.  I seldom fell any tree without wedges.  A sudden wind can come up and spoil your day.  And yes, I HAVE seen it happen.  I like "insurance" cables also.

[Collima]

Yes you are right. A wedge is a heck of a lot cheaper than a piece of equipment. Lol.

[clww]

I most always use wedges and no felling with winds over 20 mph if it has to be precision-placed.
We like pictures, too.

[saltydog]

I cant imagine logging without wedges in my back pockets. you save so much time and energy and dont tie up the skidder operator .to each there own. ive always said alot of people can cut pulpwood .not many know how to cut hi grade logs. you would lose a small fortune pushing over log trees.they have to be cut off to avoid stump pull. i had a guy come work for me years ago his saw was always pinched.i asked wheres your wedge?he told me he had one once he used it to hold his kitchen door open! try them youll like them.

[thecfarm]

I just about always put a wedge into my cut.Just a habit that I got into. If I cut 50 trees I may only need it twice,when I think I did not need it.

[Magicman]

I also use wedges when bucking a tree.  Sometimes limbs, etc. can put a strange twist on a tree trunk.

[bigsnowdog]

Are steel wedges the only way to go, or are the plastic ones acceptable?

[chevytaHOE5674]

Plastic is the only way to go for felling and bucking. When you hit them with the saw they don't destroy your chain.

[WildDog]

I only use steel wedges for splitting post out of billets that are on the ground where the saw has no chance of hitting them. Aluminium wedges for falling and some bucking but mostly plastic for bucking/limbing. I haven't had much to do with pine only heavy eucalyptus hardwoods.

[beenthere]

Steel wedges are for splitting rounds using a maul, or when starting the split to make rails.

At one time, there were aluminum wedges for felling. Haven't seen any around since the plastic ones took over.

[Ianab]

Plastic is the only way to go for felling and bucking. When you hit them with the saw they don't destroy your chain.

Looking at the nicks and scratches on some of my wedges, I resemble that remark 

They do wear out eventually, but the modern plastics are pretty tough and will take a lot of abuse. You still have to consider them a 'consumable' though, and buy new ones occasionally, sort like bars and chains.

Ian

[thecfarm]

Don't worry about the cost of them either. I have 3-6 iron wedges,that I have not used for years. These were used to split wood with.I would not use them for felling at all. Those plastic ones are fine. Most times you only hit them kinda easy,not like you are trying to split a piece of wood. Some use 2-5 pound hammers to drive them in,I just use a small tree or limb to drive them in,about 2-3 feet long and as big around as I feel comfortable holding. Wedges and stick are always on the tractor when needed. Most times I put the wedge in when I'm in doubt no matter what. I would much rather hit a plastic wedge than a metal one with my chain.

[Piston]

I am by no means even close to a professional, but I try to follow all the professional advice I read.  I never realized how helpful wedges were until I started using them a few years ago. 

I also learned to use a wedge when bucking like Magicman said.  I've gotten my saw out of pinch situations by pounding a wedge in.  Amazing how effective they are. 

Glad the tree felling worked out good for you.  It's a great feeling having them fall right where you want them.  I always put a branch or something right where I intend the tip of the tree to land, just to see how close I can get to it.  (both height/distance and direction)

Welp, Got it done and it was a breeze!

I love it when a plan comes together 

[bigsnowdog]

Are some people performing the initial driving in of the wedge, and then driving one or more in further as a cut progresses?

[beenthere]

Usually just place the wedge in the cut where you don't want the cut to close (tree setting down on the bar). When wanting the cut to open to get the tree to tip in the right direction, then the wedge is tapped further into the cut.

[Kevin]

climbed about 3/4 up and tied off a line        Regular Guy!

Was this a free climb?
I'm guessing that would be thirty feet or more.

[Piston]

Wouldn''t 3/4 of the way up a 130' tree be closer to 95-100'? 

that would be a high climb!   

[Kevin]

Thirty feet or more has it covered.
Anything over ten is extremely dangerous and anything over thirty doesn't really matter because you're dead anyway.

[Ianab]

Are some people performing the initial driving in of the wedge, and then driving one or more in further as a cut progresses?

If I even suspect the tree may settle back and pinch the bar, I tap a wedge into place once there is enough space in the backcut. Then just complete the cut, leaving just the hinge wood. 2 things may happen.
First is that the tree simply falls, and the wedge is left sitting on the stump. Cool
Or you need to give the wedge a bit of "persuasion" to tip the tree over. Still cool.
If it's has a bit of a back lean and sits down hard on the wedge, then you can insert a couple more, double them up etc and work on them until you have tipped the tree over.

Worst case is not setting one at all, and having the tree sit back, pinch your saw, and have no gap to get a wedge started. Then you have a problem 

Ian

[bigsnowdog]

I am going to have to start trying this.

[lumberjack48]

I used a wedge when i fell in Montana, never owned a wedge  here in MN., never seen a wedge in my fathers logging tools ether, i mean I'm back as far as i can remember up to now.

I've been on many logging jobs over 30+yrs, i have never seen a guy carry a wedge in MN.

[chevytaHOE5674]

I've been on many logging jobs over 30+yrs, i have never seen a guy carry a wedge in MN.

I've bought logs from a few guys in northern Mn and they all used wedges.

There is no disadvantage to using wedges only advantages so why not use them? They allow more controlled/precise felling, reduced chance of pinching during felling and bucking and only take a couple extra minutes to use.

[John Mc]

There is no disadvantage to using wedges only advantages so why not use them? They allow more controlled/precise felling, reduced chance of pinching during felling and bucking and only take a couple extra minutes to use.

X 2 !! Felling wedges are useful tools. They give you more options for putting a tree where you want it to fall, as opposed to where it wants to fall... which can save a LOT of time when you consider the whole logging operation, not just the process of getting trees on the ground.

[Magicman]

I've never seen a wedge used here either.  When they hang a chainsaw, they just take a break until a skidder comes along and pushes the tree to unhang the saw.   

[lumberjack48]

 A tree will fall three directions with out a using a wedge.

 Disadvantage using a wedge, i can't imagine playing with a wedge when theres a skidder at my heals wanting trees on the ground.
 I can't see where i could save time using a wedge, if i had a tree that i could not pull with a hinge, i would notch it, have it ready to tip, and keep on felling other trees. When i saw the skidder coming back I'd wave her over, i'd run over to the tree, a little push over it goes.
 
If a person needs a wedge when bucking up, he wasn't learned the does & don'ts. I've had guys with 3 saws stuck, they just couldn't get it no matter how much wood they saw up.

chevy, i don't know where you were, i worked with nothing but professional loggers, i never seen a feller with a wedge. I used to get hay from a farmer, he did a little logging on the side, he had a couple wedges laying in the pickup box.

If i had trees along a boundary line or fence that were lining back, we used the skidder   to push-em over, much faster than a wedge.

Felling out west is a another thread, you use a tool belt, you have to be prepared, your out felling way ahead of the skidding crew.

Don't get me wrong theres a place for a wedge, just not in my technique of getting timber on the ground, in a solid stand of Aspen i could tip a 100 cords a day if i wanted to fall ahead of the skidder, i loved tipping timber.

[BaldBob]

"...i would notch it, have it ready to tip, and keep on felling other trees. When i saw the skidder coming back I'd wave her over, i'd run over to the tree, a little push over it goes."

You may be an expert faller, but if you did that on any of the jobs that I supervised, you'd be headed down the road.  Leaving a tree all but ready to fall while working on other trees is about the most serious safety violation a faller can commit.

[Paul_H]

All the hand fallers around here use wedges.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Must be alot of nice flat ground there in Mn where your at to be able to get a skidder to each and every trees. Here we have terrain where no skidder can come to push the trees. And where its possible to get the skidder waiting around for it is very time consuming when a wedge and 3 hits on it with a short stick and the tree is on the ground laid perfectly for it to be pulled out. 

As said notching trees and then leaving them to be pushed over later is very dangerous, as a sudden gust of wind or even just gravity can cause them to come crashing to the ground when you least expect.

Also round here if the skidder was that much on your heals waiting for wood your cutting then the whole operations needs some direction. Ideally the skidder and fellers aren't in the exact same area at the same time to keep things safer.

Just about anybody can notch a tree and push it over with a skidder. It takes some talent and skill to put trees exactly where you want them with no help but from a wedge and an axe.
 

[lumberjack48]

I put my trees right where i wanted them !!
 
I never left the tree precut, it was only notched, i finished the cut when the skidder was pushing.

I left my job at night there wasn't a tree left in the woods, theres nothing worse than trees froze down or a foot of snow on them.

I started fresh every morning, while the skidders were warming up I'd go start laying them down.

Four of us working, 2 drivers, one topper and one feller, this is when the markets were taking a lot of wood.
When the markets tightened up i had to lay off one driver and the topper, the wife and me worked.

Most of Mn is flat, i've ran in to some steep ground, not that many days of it, expect when i logged up on the Voyage National Park, on Lake Kabetogama, that is rough ground, steep and lots of rock.
I logged the winter of 1970 on Locater Lake trail, i stayed in logging camp with the wife and 3 kids. I barged my skidder across  Kabetogama in Sept, beautiful country.
There were two other couples, and 4 French Canadians staying in camp, they were strip cutting.
I brought a logger friend of mine to work with me.
You can't buy these kind of times

 

[bill m]

I guess if putting them right where you wanted them means somewhere on the ground than you don't need wedges. But if you want to put them where it makes the skidder operators job easier and not destroy all of the understory regeneration it's a good idea to learn directional felling and use wedges.

[Paul_H]

I agree Bill.If you're falling a face on a side hill,one log in the wrong spot will make it miserable for the lay.

[John Mc]

A tree will fall three directions with out a using a wedge.

If it's got any lean to it, I'd buy up to 180˚ of choices (up to 90˚ on either side of the direction of lean). I wouldn't buy 270˚, which is what I think you may be getting at with your "three directions". Once you get past 90˚ from the lean, you are trying to go against the lean. You're going to need something to give it a push (or pull) in that case. Could be a wedge, could be a felling lever (if you feel like carrying one around), could be a skidder, come-along, etc.

Disadvantage using a wedge, i can't imagine playing with a wedge when theres a skidder at my heals wanting trees on the ground.
 I can't see where i could save time using a wedge, if i had a tree that i could not pull with a hinge, i would notch it, have it ready to tip, and keep on felling other trees. When i saw the skidder coming back I'd wave her over, i'd run over to the tree, a little push over it goes.

And this is where I come back to my statement that wedges "can save a lot of time when you consider the whole logging operation, not just the process of getting trees on the ground." I'd have the feller doing the felling, rather than tying up an expensive piece of equipment doing the job the feller should be doing. I'd also want the feller to be able to put the tree down in the direction that minimizes residual stand damage, and is the most efficient direction for skidding... even if this direction is against the lean.

[Ianab]

I was thinking the same thing, using a $50,000 skidder to do the job a $5 wedge could do, in the same time?

It's not like you even need to wedge every tree, the ones you do, it takes maybe 30secs to set the wedge, complete the cuts normally, and give the wedge a few whacks to tip the tree. It's over before you could get the skidder turned around and lined up behind the tree.

Ian

[thecfarm]

I use wedges,just because I don't have a skidder in my back pocket. For alot of guys on here we are just small scale loggers or just cut firewood.

[lumberjack48]

 I'm talking about a clear cut operation.

 My trees all layed the same why, i worked on finding the best method to get timber out with a pole skidder and a free hand feller 30 years, i did not want to see a skidder tied up because of poor felling methods or broken trees, broken chokers or mainline, because a feller layed the timber cross ways in the stumps, he would be down the road.

I wanted those Detroit's screaming, not setting trying to hook up a messed up drag, i made money when the trees were on the landing not laying in the woods.
I set goals every day, in a good solid stand of timber, i wanted 80 turns, sounds crazy, i was a die-hard logger, the wife was worse then me.

After i got hurt the wife kept the job going, she would load me up everyday , i sat in the pickup all day.
She had my brother falling for her, he came out of the woods and gased up the 044, than poured a cup of coffee and got in the pickup with me, we were Bs'ing , this is about 9am, we didn't break on till 10. Then all of a sudden the pickup door flies open, she grabs his cup, throws it out on the ground, she yells this isn't break time, i need you in the woods, then she looks over at me, she yells at me, what the H___ or you doing, you know better.
Dam i thought, i sure taught her well.

We hired a couple guys after i got hurt, the first night they came in i asked how much they got out, they said, they fell all day, didn't skid a thing, in other words nobody made a dime, a 0 day.
We learned real quick, that all the real loggers were all ready working, and if we could't be on the job, we were better off to park the equipment.


 

[Piston]

I use wedges,just because I don't have a skidder in my back pocket. For alot of guys on here we are just small scale loggers or just cut firewood.

 

Not only funny, but also a great point. 

[captain_crunch]

Here in Oregon we generaly carry 2 wedges at all times. The old steel wedges used flat 1/8 in steel plates and wedges were from 18-20 in long but they kinda went away like the hand saw. But you could tip over a big one with them

[Dave VH]

I wonder how many bent bars are out there because people refuse to use wedges.

I'm not a professional feller, I need my wedges!  I'm yet to get a skidder.  Maybe if I had the bigger equipment, I'd use it.

[54Dutchman]

No experiance - but wedges sound like a good idea.  Where can they be purchased

[beenthere]

Chainsaw shop, farm stores, box stores that sell chainsaws....among a few.

Or click on sponsor Bailey's (left column Lucas Mill Bailey's) for some wedges (plus much more).

[John Mc]

Here's a link to a search on Bailey's site for "wedges". Lots to choose from.

I use 10 or 12" long wedges, even on smaller trees. The little "mini" wedges sold at some hardware stores are just about worthless.

Basic uses for wedges are fairly obvious, IMO, but learning to make the most of them can take some practice and training.

[thecfarm]

Some use a about a 2 pound hammer to tap them in,others just use a small piece of wood. I use the wood,about 2 feet long,and about what ever feels right in my hand for roundness,maybe 3 inches. Remember these are made just to tap kinda hard,not made to use all you got. On some problem trees,if it's bigger enough 2-3 can be used to make it fall. Just go from one to the other,just by tapping them in.

[John Mc]

I use the back of an axe with about a 2+ foot handle. I'm not giving it all I've got, but found a short-handled two pound hammer was just too much work for me - especially when working on larger trees or those with a lot of back lean. The longer handle lets you get more into it without straining, and lets you stand more upright when driving the wedge.

The axe is a nice size for me, since the handle fits in my "job box" that carries spare chains, tools, sharpening file & guide, stump vise, helmet, wedges, web sling to use for an anchor point, log tongs, spare mix oil, bar oil, first aid kit (quite a bit more complete than the pouch on my belt), etc. If I grab that box, a chainsaw, and some fuel, I've got just about everything I need for some felling and bucking firewood.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Also if you carry an axe to pound wedges with, then you also have a tool for chopping out a pinched bar, knocking small limbs off to get to the base of a tree, knocking the "wooden wedge" out of and cleaning up your face cut, etc.