Author Topic: Cankered beech (Read 1910 times)

woodlotter · « **on:** June 03, 2011, 09:58:48 pm »

Hi all from southern NB Canada here. Have a small woodlot (83 acres) with a small amount of beech most of which is cankered. I have always left the cankered beech for wildlife trees when cutting firewood. Was looking around tonight and thinking there arent really anything using them. No woodpeckers or anything. Am i better of to use these trees as firewood and leave a couple aspen because everything seems to use dead aspen(popple). Is it because they are a softer tree?

thecfarm · « **Reply #1 on:** June 04, 2011, 06:39:02 am »

Woodlotter,welcome to the forum. I suppose you mean the bumps all over the tree. I was walking my lot and found a few,and I mean a few,with smooth bark. I really did not know what it was until I looked up. I would and have cut them down for firewood. Just splits hard,by hand. If I was sell them for logs,I suppose pallet wood would do it. I really don't know the market for them in my area.I have some big ones and it's very common for the middle to be hollow in them for a ways into the tree.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #2 on:** June 04, 2011, 08:19:10 am »

The only beech I would leave for wildlife would be a smooth barked one. Taking all the best beech out is just high grading the stand. There are always a few smooth ones, but very few are smooth in these parts. The cankered stuff should be removed or knocked down if too small. If you were ever thinking of thinning the stand under a pre-commercial treatment those junk beech could hinder the project. I have seen them so bad that they will never be anything useful and their presence was so abundant that it was over taking space where a nice sugar maple and yellow birch could be growing. Too much usually means a site will not qualify for pre-commercial thinning. Thinning is more than spacing trees it's the selection of quality trees to leave. Firewood lots around here are usually a haven of junk beech and because it's a slow paced thinning of the canopy, the beech will thrive and take over if not taken down. And the sugar maple seedlings get choked out by beech shade and the yellow birch has a hard time to germinate in beech canopy. Those old narley diseased beech, we call apple trees.

Ron Scott · « **Reply #3 on:** June 04, 2011, 12:08:06 pm »

Leave 1-5 selected wildlife trees per acre. These should include selected beech for mast and den trees along with any oak, black cheery, white ash etc if you have any. Some selected aspen trees can also be left for diversity, but they are usually short lived as wildlife trees.

KBforester · « **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2011, 07:47:47 pm »

I wouldn't leave badly diseased beech for wildlife unless they were of significant diameter (14" +). Small "wildlife" trees are pretty useless. If their clean and smooth, leave them.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #5 on:** June 07, 2011, 04:46:37 am »

The trouble with the firewood lots is the mature beech is scattered in the maple, and only small hole in the canopy get created. The suppressed understory beech growing don't grow all that straight and there about 6-8" with a top that flattened out and the limbs sprawl like an apple tree. They seem to respond well to the opening and produce a lot of seed because of the stress from the disease and they will produce a thicket of beech regen. They may have some nuts for the bears and grouse, but they won't be den trees. Those understory suppressed and diseased ones will die a very slow death and get no size and never seem to grow up straight. They will kill out the maple regen.

Other than the white birch here, the overstory is sugar maple, the beech has been removed slowly for firewood for years. The canopy was suppressing the development of the maple regen, while the new beech germinates thrived.

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech has taken over as regeneration.

Okrafarmer · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2012, 12:28:29 am »

The canker hasn't taken over here. We have a lot of smooth-skinned ones, that look like beech are supposed to. Nice big ones, too, often to 24 inches or more. One day I would like to work on developing the market for it, as it sees little practical use in these parts. Any foresters or others know how far south the canker has progressed-- is it in my area, is it likely to reach us? Are there any specific markets for beech lumber?

ahlkey · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2012, 09:47:07 am »

On one property that I own jointly we have a large number of straight Beech trees. We cut the poorer ones mostly for firewood but I do use the higher quality logs for flooring and some furniture applications. It is as dense and strong as Hard Maple & Oak, easily turned and bends well. It can also be sold for pallet wood or railroad ties but that is not something I do. I am on the outer edge of their range in Wisconsin. I have a decent market for it with speciality products. The deer and turkeys also seem to like the nuts so for wildlife it is plus. My biggest concern today is Beech bark disease but nothing so far. Attached is picture of one straight tree but 20% of the stand are large Beech trees.

Okrafarmer · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2012, 11:23:19 am »

Does the lumber have a problem with splitting?

tyb525 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2012, 01:04:09 pm »

I wouldn't let a good beech log go to firewood. They make some pretty good lumber, I've never had a problem with splitting. It's some pretty hard stuff.

Okrafarmer · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2012, 03:43:01 pm »

Good to know. Two friends have quite a whack of it down here, and maybe one day I'll buy some from them, or get some from other sources. No cankering here, that I've noticed.

tyb525 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2012, 05:24:18 pm »

It might have a tendancy to warp, but not much worse than any other species. If it is stacked good it should be fine

WDH · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2012, 10:46:30 pm »

In the South, most of the big beech are hollow. The hardwood timber cruisers always banged on them with their cruising stick to check and see if they were hollow.

Okrafarmer · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2012, 10:57:26 pm »

Good to know.

ahlkey · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2012, 08:06:52 am »

We have a lot in the 20" - 26" range at breast level. I would agree you do find some of the larger trees to be hollow in the center of the butt log. I also put the lumber on the bottom of the stack (weight helps). They are normally not very straight but we have managed them for many years and have a lot of solid straight stock. The logs that I have milled made some very nice lumber and splitting wasn't a problem.

Okrafarmer · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2012, 01:55:48 pm »

That's encouraging, it's some nice looking stuff.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #16 on:** February 05, 2012, 06:26:40 pm »

I did a management plan on a 50 acre lot that was surrounded by potato fields. The site was top notch for growing anything. There were a number of really old beech that were close to 40" as well as rock maple. The beech were all smooth barked and straight. The trees probably reached close to 80 feet. Sadly, as with many plans, the cruise data was picked from the plan and used to sell his timber to the highest bidder. The land was then turned over in farm field for more taters. That was the only grove of hardwood with smooth beech I ever saw around here.

A lot of fellas got a wake up call when McCain cut everyone's contracts by 30 % after clearing all there best woods and building new sheds. I remember that old McCain, who was a little tight from the booze, stood in a crowd at his annual picnic for employees and stated that DNR can keep all there trees in Fredericton. That's what they think of the woods.

tyb525 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 05, 2012, 06:32:14 pm »

We don't have any beech canker here that I've seen, yet. They're all pretty smooth

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #18 on:** February 05, 2012, 06:34:26 pm »

I do see individual ones that are smooth and then the rest around it will all be diseased and crooked

thecfarm · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2012, 07:37:02 am »

How right you are SD. I was walking my lot and came to a Beech tree that was not diseased,I did not know what it was at first. Good thing it had leaves on it,or I would of had a picture on it here and be asking what it was.

Only one I have on 150 acres,I think. But the ones that do have the Cankers grow tall and straight here.

Okrafarmer · « **Reply #20 on:** February 06, 2012, 08:46:02 am »

Fifty years from now people will be making $10,000 exquisite tables out of cankered beech, and talking about how they have a great source that gets it for them out of Maine.....

ahlkey · « **Reply #21 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:04:14 am »

I think you are right that rarity within species can drive high prices in specific markets. I found that the larger Beech trees can lose their smoothness on the butt log. Did a fair amount of cutting this weekend and the larger butt log in the pile below is 30" inches. Attached are two photos - one of the sawlogs I set aside for cutting on the sawmill and the other of beech firewood stacked. Before the old farm was sold it was called Beechburg Farms so even though Beech is not always consider top shelf lumber it does have a special spot in our family history.

thecfarm · « **Reply #22 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:17:53 am »

My beech that size I can run my arm right up the butt log in the center of it. It has a special spot in our family too,right up the chimney.

I split alot of that stuff in 4 foot length with a sledge hammer and about 4 iron wedges. Would have all 4 into the stick at times. That stuff splits hard. Finally told my Father be easier to haul it out in whatever length and split it stove size. Much easier.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #23 on:** February 06, 2012, 12:38:03 pm »

It always seemed to split easy when frozen in March and April in the longer daylight and warmer sunshine.

thecfarm · « **Reply #24 on:** February 06, 2012, 06:20:29 pm »

Yes it does,but a NAA ford don't go through 4 feet of snow too well.

Clark · « **Reply #25 on:** February 06, 2012, 06:25:22 pm »

Quote from: ahlkey on February 06, 2012, 09:04:14 am

...even though Beech is not always consider top shelf lumber it does have a special spot in our family history.

I've wondered about that. European beech is used quite often in furniture and it looks pretty nice. IKEA makes a lot of their nicer stuff out of it. From what I've seen of beech in eastern WI it looks like it grows to be a pretty nice tree with respectable form. If we didn't have the canker here would there be more of a market for it or would we treat it like other "undesirable" hardwoods?

Clark

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #26 on:** February 06, 2012, 06:56:51 pm »

That's because it's suppose to be already brought in from the woods and piled in the back yard so you can hit it before the flies arrive.

thecfarm · « **Reply #27 on:** February 06, 2012, 07:00:14 pm »

Now the rest of the story.We are talking about beech at least 2 feet across. You pile,I'll watch.

That's why I was splitting it in the woods in four feet. We use to bring all of our wood out on a trailer.A beech at least 2 feet across is still heavy even if the middle is hollow.
One of the beech trees I was cutting down sprung a leak! I put my notch in it and started on the other side and water started to pour out of the stump. I shut my saw off and pulled it out. I thought my saw was leaking gas at first. Felt pretty dumb when I figured out it was water. Guess there was a rotten limb and it had been filling up with water for years.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #28 on:** February 06, 2012, 07:09:13 pm »

I was talking up to 18" max but ends and tops. Not back breakers.

Most hardwood that size has been cut down around here.

thecfarm · « **Reply #29 on:** February 06, 2012, 07:12:50 pm »

My Father wouldn't cut those small ones.

He said we'll let that one grow a while longer. Back breakers is a good word for a family forum. But the memories of working in the woods with him. Makes me smile just to think about it now. But I was not smilling much than. Did not hurt me one bit. Oh to be 25 again.

ahlkey · « **Reply #30 on:** February 07, 2012, 10:27:03 am »

Clark-- I have seen some of the IKEA Beech furniture and it is impressive. The key I believe is marketing a design that is unique and not just a "me too" product. I am going to saw up these logs this spring and will try to market one or two newer designs using Beech. On this woodlot we are fortunate to have high quality Beech. Most of the time Beech sawlogs are sold just as misc. hardwood given the lack of a market. In general I understand that, as it is typically hard to find a lot of reasonably straight trees or ones that are not hollow in the butt log.

The firewood pile above is just one stack and Beech is the only species of firewood that is sold in split form (do get a preminum). The rest of the species (white ash, oak, hard maple) is sold as firewood logs.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #31 on:** February 07, 2012, 11:23:49 am »

Years ago, someone was hot after beech in Nova Scotia. They called the marketing board and I told the guy that most all our beech is diseased and that the only corner of NB that might have significant quantities of smooth stuff would be in Madawaska county. I never heard from the guy since. One time there was a shop not far away that made bowling pins from beech. It didn't operated for too long, and before I even knew about it years ago, it had closed up.

ahlkey · « **Reply #32 on:** February 07, 2012, 12:29:00 pm »

For me when it involves marketing bad news can be an opportunity. I have used successfully the old Sam Walton approach to marketing namely - "swim upstream"! If your design is unique, simple, and affordable then you might have something. It is very easy to make things complicated but really hard to keep it simple. You also have to work with what you have available and having the Beech quality on the woodlot is a positive for me not a minus.

John Mc · « **Reply #33 on:** February 08, 2012, 10:11:24 pm »

Link to a good article on Beech Bark Disease (and actually quite readable)

ahlkey · « **Reply #34 on:** February 09, 2012, 08:06:01 am »

I have read a number of articles on this subject but this one is one of the best ones out there. Thanks for posting.

John Mc · « **Reply #35 on:** February 09, 2012, 04:02:08 pm »

Quote from: ahlkey on February 09, 2012, 08:06:01 am

I have read a number of articles on this subject but this one is one of the best ones out there. Thanks for posting.

Thanks. The article appeared in the newsletter of Vermont Coverts:Woodlands for Wildlife. They are a non-profit dedicated to educating Vermont's woodland owners and managers about practical approaches to forest management to enhance wildlife habitat and promote healthy forest ecosystems.

One of the things that first attracted me to this organization is their understanding that managing for wildlife and having a "working forest" do not have to be mutually exclusive. In fact, in a lot of Vermont's forests, they are complementary: the habitat diversity a well managed timber harvest can provide can be one of the best things you can do for wildlife.

I've got hooked, and have been fairly deeply involved in the organization for almost 10 years now.

Okrafarmer · « **Reply #36 on:** February 23, 2012, 11:01:08 pm »

Here is a picture I took yesterday of some pristeen, uncankered beech in somebody's yard down here. Typical of what we see. The largest of this stand was around 14" ABH but beech often grow to 24" or more around here.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #37 on:** February 24, 2012, 06:15:27 am »

My yard beech is still smooth, but it's only about 25 years old. They make a nice shade tree and are very strong in the winds.

WDH · « **Reply #38 on:** February 24, 2012, 08:39:30 pm »

We don't get the disease that they do in the North. The beech gets hollow, but not cankered, at least not yet.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #39 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:38:36 pm »

Hard to believe the scale would not be spreading south already because in the far NW of NB it's too cold for the bug to survive and carry the disease.

WDH · « **Reply #40 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:44:29 pm »

All our beech here in Georgia are smooth as a baby's bottom.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #41 on:** February 24, 2012, 11:03:03 pm »

Being wingless the progression is slow I guess.

WDH · « **Reply #42 on:** February 24, 2012, 11:08:30 pm »

That is a good thing.

Okrafarmer · « **Reply #43 on:** February 24, 2012, 11:49:19 pm »

It could arrive eventually. Have the fire-ants made their way up to New Brunswick yet, SD? How about the kudzu?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #44 on:** February 25, 2012, 05:33:11 am »

Fire ants are here in some areas yes. I have not seen any. But we have a native species of red ant, it is very small compared to the black ant. Some invasive plants cannot survive the native woods here, too much shade. We do have purple loosestrife in about any wetland along the river valley. Escaped from gardens, kills out native wetland plants.

I hope you guys don't think I wish the plague on ya or anything. Just because I'm surprised doesn't mean I'm disappointed.

Okrafarmer · « **Reply #45 on:** February 25, 2012, 03:28:31 pm »

Sorry about the fire ants. They came here about

15-16 years ago. Seems like they came in like a conquering army and just tore the whole place up for a few years, then ebbed down to a quieter occupational force that is now being treated with chemicals and so on, and doesn't just go ape all over the place. But for a while there it seemed like the world would end.

As for the kudzu, it is a "highly renewable natural resource"

that takes over everything and will not stop. Deep frost seems to keep it from spreading northward past a certain line, but boy, if it weren't for people keeping it at bay it would probably destroy everything in its path. It can strangle trees, envelop buildings, and almost grow across the road before another car comes along to squash it

Seems to thrive on carbon emissions from tailpipes.... One of the best antidotes is large numbers of goats, so the goat population is thriving down here. We actually rent out goats to control kudzu.

John Mc · « **Reply #46 on:** February 25, 2012, 05:37:37 pm »

Ever notice how none of the highly invasive plants seems to be good for anything?

News:

Author Topic: Cankered beech (Read 1910 times)