Sycamore Flooring?

[Magicman]

I know that this is a very peculiar wood that generally has a mind of it's own, but.  It's abundant, hard, and shrinks very little when it dries.

Thinking outside of the box, how would it do for flooring?  QS or grade saw?  My thinking was grade saw and install with the "smile" up so that the edges would tend to cup downward, and surface nailed.  No T&G, just chamfered edges for a V groove effect.  The crack would not matter.

Beneath the Sycamore would be 1X6 SYP subflooring (no T&G) with house wrap between the subfloor and floor.

[Norm]

I would never trust it for flooring unless it was QS. I know T&G is a pain but it would really help to keep it flat.

I also think it would make a beautiful floor.

[Kansas]

When I built my house, I used sycamore in a few places. I used it for wall covering-that was flat sawn for the most part. For the master bedroom, I used a walnut border around the room and used qs sycamore for the floor. That is, about 2 foot on the outside of the floor is walnut.  I had a shiplap type edge put on it. I used random width. They nailed it right into the subflooring, which was  OSB. Looks gorgeous.

[LOGDOG]

I've had some quartersawn, spalted Sycamore here for several years that I've been watching. I milled it with my Peterson ASM. That's how long it's been. Some pieces have done real well, other's have gotten a wave through them where the lumber has moved. Wherever there's a knot, it seems to like to move, kink, ahead of or behind the knot. Not sure if it's all like that but it's what I see in this stuff. I love Sycamore though. It'll definitely have a place in our next house. I think what I'll personally do though is cut it into shorter length and chop all the knots out, then run it through my Logosol PH260 and then end match it on a shaper or something. I've gotten to where I like the plank flooring a lot, but for Sycamore I'd have to go with shorts like we use to up North with the hardwoods. It would certainly make for a very unique floor.

[scsmith42]

Whatever you do, I would definitely QS it.  It's one of the most spectacular woods when milled this way, and very stable.  Landon is spot-on regarding movement near knots, etc.

[Larry]

Wood flooring is rated for hardness on the Janka Hardness Scale.  Red oak is the standard or middle wood for flooring.  Sycamore is towards the soft end.

IMO QS sycamore is one of the most beautiful floors one can have.  Just maybe not in a high traffic area like a hall.

[LOGDOG]

Could you shore up the softness with some kind of hard epoxy finish by chance?

[Kansas]

While I think qs sycamore can't be beat, I got to looking here at the walls that are more flat sawn. They nailed that up with finish nails into the studs. That lays as flat as can be. I remember when I was looking at our lumber piles for wood for the house. No one ever bought flat sawn sycamore, simply because we never pushed it. I figured I may as well use some of that.Some boards were a bit twisted, but the majority were fine.The boards actually have a lot of character. There are some knots, and a bit of streaks from bugs similar to box elder, but without the red color. If you have smaller sycamore logs, it might be better to flat saw them. Figure you will have a percentage rendered unusable due to twisting and warping. It reminds me of cottonwood in that respect. Some boards will move, most will not on a good quality log. Where you would be nailing down into southern yellow pine, I think you would be fine. The advantage of smaller sycamore logs is they usually don't have shake. Seems like around here, once you get up to 2 ft diameter or more, you have a 50/50 chance of shake at best. If you have facebook or know someone who does, send me a message. I have some pics of that wall.

[Magicman]

I've used Sycamore in my cabinet shop for drawer sides and backs.  Also, jewelry boxes and other items.  Yes, it is as bad as Pecan regarding knots.  I'll just pick out some trees with straight, limbfree trunks.  I would really love to saw 20' so I could span the room without butt joints.

Anyway, I'll scout around next week and see what I can find that I can either skid out with my tractor or get the sawmill to.  Most of the Sycamores are along the creek, so they may not be a option anyway.  If that won't work, I'll look at Red Oaks or something other than Sweetgum  .

Kansas, Thanks for your input.  I know nothing about FB

LOGDOG, Hardness would not be an issue.  My her first choice was SYP

[LOGDOG]

SYP is awfully pretty too. I was looking at some of LJMathias's beams in his post the other day and that warm orange'ish and yellowish tone jumped out at me. It's a different look than Sycamore but beautiful in it's own right as well.

Didn't you say you had a "Sinker" sawing job coming up? Any chance you could saw on shares and put sinker pine in there? That would be FINE!

[Magicman]

That sinker job is Cypress, but he hasn't made any progress dragging them out of the pond.

The rest of our cabin is paneled with 1X6 old growth heart SYP.  It has that orange tint that you spoke of.
 



"She" is planning on using a white "pickleing" stain on whatever we finally use for our flooring.  I am leaning heavily on giving that Sycamore a try, but I really have to see if any are harvestable before I speak.

I'm also following that Red Oak Flooring thread.

[LOGDOG]

Love that pine Magicman. The Southern Pine just looks different than the Northern Pine I grew up with. Warmer I guess. I have to say, I thought about this thread this afternoon while I worked. That Sycamore would be a really special floor if you could put it together. If you quartersaw it, I'm thinking it would wear better. Not to mention really show out with the fleck. That said, I think the fleck would be lost maybe if you she uses the white pickling stain you mentioned. I've seen maple that looked nice with the white pickling stain though. Hickory could look nice with it as well. You have any hickory in your woods? Our place is packed with 'em.

[tyb525]

If you're gonna put the time and effort into making your own flooring, why not make it from something unique, like sycamore? Something you can't (easily) buy at a store. That's one of the major benefits of owning your own sawmill, right?

[WDH]

Lynn,

What I would do is cut twice as much as you need, sticker, and air dry it.  Then sort through the boards and pick out the good stuff, leaving the warped and twisted boards for another use.  If the board dries straight, and if planed and installed a short time after planing, it should go down nice.  If a board dries warped or twisted, accept it as reality, discard it for flooring, and move on to the next board.  You should be able to create a beautiful floor by using the boards that want to be flooring and by segregating out that boards that want to be devilish. 

You cannot rehabilitate a warped, twisted sycamore board.  Once such a criminal, always such a criminal.  Even if you joint and plane a warped, twisted sycamore board nice and flat, if it is not at the perfect equilibrium moisture content, it will re-twist and re-warp as it moves a little as it acclimates, driving you (me) crazy. 

Once you sort through the air dried lumber to select your floor, you can sticker inside to acclimate or get it kiln dried.  I would not hesitate to do it if I had a cabin and I could sort out the good stuff from the bad.  The key is having enough to select from to be able to high grade the stack.

[Magicman]

Great advice Danny, and too much is never enough, especially if it is my logs, and my sawmill.

I had some 20' butt log SYP 2X6's that crowned one way toward the butt end and the other way on the far end.  As luck would have it, I needed a 75" rafter, and a 14' rafter.  I cut them flipped one and got both.   

[Dave Shepard]

We had a beaded t&g panelling made out of the sycamore I q sawed. It is spectacular stuff. I'd say at least a 50 percent loss from the pile of rough sawn I started with to the final yield. We had a lot of shake, that went in the firewood pile straight away. Then there was all the really low grade stuff that was sound, but had very small, but very cool cuttings. We stickered that over the wood shop. might recover 20 % out of that pile. It might be soft for a hardwood, but it's still harder than EWP, and I've made a ton of flooring out of that.

[tyb525]

It's commonly used for butcher blocks (so I've heard)

[west penn]

 
  Most of the sycamore in my area that grow close to a stream have a "sweep" in the trunk in the first 8 or 10 feet.   They make for tough QS. The rays will run out on one end or the other because you can't center the heart full length. they also will move more in drying because you can't follow the grain.   Look for straight trees for Quatersawing sycamore.

[WDH]

Just another pothole in the Sycamore Road  .

[ljmathias]

MM, don't you have some pecans you were going to do away with?  They would make some incredibly hard flooring, and beautiful to boot.  Stuff I cut has air-dried well, but I cringe at running it through the planar.  There is some checking and twist but I don't think it'll amount to half the boards.  I would saw thick though so you have more to work with to get it flat and square.  Have fun!  and when you decide to get that Logosol molder, let me know so I can borrow it.

Lj

[Magicman]

Yes, I have an abundance of Pecan trees, but I have no plans to saw any of them.  I'm loaded up and will go over to the Cabin tomorrow for most of next week.  I plan to scout around for some easy Sycamore trees.  I know that I "red flagged" several before the last logging, but they were all close to the creek.  I'll just have to look and see.  If none are easily available, I'll go to plan "B", whatever that is.

I do still have 3 Cherry logs that I have not skidded out.

[Kansas]

I think with today's finishers and hardeners, you can use about anything. Being I wanted to have my house as a showcase for wood and a selling point, I did a different floor or steps in every room. About 9 varieties in all.  The softest I used was cottonwood. The hardest was either the hickory or the white oak. If I would have had time, looking back, I wish I had spiked the floor with some other species.

[Norm]

Ok Kansas enough teases! 

Let's see some pictures of those floors. 

[WDH]

I second that motion.

[metalspinner]

QS sycamore flooring...

A forest of sycamores to saw it from...

You're gonna need 'em.  Saw 3x's what you think you will need. 

My favorite feature of QS sycamore, aside from the ray fleck  , is your ability to combine it with other woods. There are so many colors in sycamore that it compliments many species. It would be really cool to lay a mixed floor of  a bit of cherry, a dash of walnut, just a pinch of maple, with Sycamore holding it all together.  What the heck!?!  That would be a sawyer's floor!

[LOGDOG]

I'm a big fan of those mixed floors myself. The contrast of the mixed woods actually seems to highlight the uniqueness of each individual species that much more.

[scsmith42]

The secret to minimizing degrade on sycamore is as follows:

1 - get a high quality end sealer on the ends of the logs the same day that they are felled.

2 - mill the logs ASAP after felling, quartersawing as much if not all of the wood.

3 - DO NOT AIR DRY!  Instead, get the boards into a low temperature kiln ASAP after milling.

When FF member Dad2nine and I have milled/dried QS Sycamore together, our degrade has been very low - probably less than 2%.

It helps if you do the felling and milling in the fall/winter/early spring too.

[Dodgy Loner]

It helps if you do the felling and milling in the fall/winter/early spring too.

But it's early summer and the Magicwoman is cracking the whip!

[Magicman]

I did a bit of looking     There is one 24"+ Sycamore that I can fairly easily harvest.  It has vines and I can't see what length logs will be available.  The other available Sycamores are in the 15" range which will not yield much QS.

After I get the roof on the Cabin Addition, I'll concentrate on the flooring logs.