Lifting & Moving logs

[Chilterns]

Hi,

I am seeking a way to lift and move logs without the need to buy / rent or use heavy mechanised powered machinery or horse dragging extraction in an eco sensitive area. Typical logs would be 16 - 18ft long x 35" - 60" girth.

Chilterns

[Buck]

Have you tried meditation?

[bigshow]

how far? how high?  for moving around at ground level, there is this:

http://www.futureforestry.com/

upon further inspection, it looks like those wont handle your log diameters...

[witterbound]

Can you get any kind of machinery in there?  atv, truck, tractor, etc, or are we talking strictly human power.

[Buck]

The size of the logs is why I found it amusing. Have you considered portable winches and milling them in place. An arch would be handy and least impact.

[Jeff]

I would think the simple fact that logs from trees that size that were no longer in that eco-sensitive area would be a major disturbance, even if they were "teleported" out.

[Jim_Rogers]

Well let's see, he doesn't want to buy anything. He doesn't want to rent anything. He doesn't want to use heavy equipment. He doesn't want to use horses. But he wants to move logs that weigh thousands of pounds.

If you don't want to buy or rent anything, then use what you've got.

What have you got that will lift 18' long logs that weigh thousands of pounds?

[Qweaver]

35 to 60" girth eguals 10 to 20" diameter.  So depending on the type of tree 1000 to 2500 lb logs.  My 32 HP Kubota moves this size logs with little problem.  An 18' x 20" dia. red oak may start to test it tho.  That would be my solution.  Buy, borrow or rent a 4 wheel drive tractor with front forks and chains to carry the logs without skidding

[Jeff]

It would be pretty tough to carry something 18 foot long (wide) through the woods with a tractor unless all the trees are cut down.

[isawlogs]

 There are, at times , impossibilities I beleive this  is one of them.    I would sudgest getting your wood from another site.

[icolquhoun]

i routinely move logs 18-20" in diameter using an atv and logging arch with ZERO impact to the ground. 
35-60" in diameter is a different story

[Jeff]

If when he says girth, he means girth, which means circumference and not diameter, then an arch is perfect for many situations. With the limited info at hand, he might even be talking a cypress swamp, which an arch would not be perfect for.

[Ianab]

Considered milling them on site with a swingblade mill?

Mill can be hauled in behind an ATV or other light vehicle, and boards and beams hauled out on a light trailer with minimal impact.

Ian

[bigshow]

ah yes i misread girth for diameter.

[tyb525]

Heck we don't even know that he's milling them. He did post in the TF forum.

What is the location like (terrain, etc), what are you doing with the logs, and what materials/equipment do you have available?

[WildDog]

I am thinking sky hooks or a shovel, the shovel will take a bit longer as you would need to wait untill the termites do their thing and then shovel up the dust. Welcome to the forum Chilterns...don't worry about me I've had a long day.

[Chris Burchfield]

Chilterns,  I built this contraption for dual purpose and use it in combination with a Waren 9500ti winch.  One way is with wheels, lifting the one end of the log and winching to the trailer.  The other way is to remove the wheels, use the ramp pins as a pivot point and with a snatch block, lift the log end and setting it back down on the trailer.  I can then take another bite and set the log the rest of the way up in the trailer.  I have the tools and skills for machining and welding.  I don't have heavy equipment or $$$$'s for the same.

[Thehardway]

You have several low impact solutions available at fairly low cost but your going to have to be willing to do your research and fail a few times in trial before you get it right.  The skills you seek have long disappeared and have to be rediscovered through trial and error.   The key to your future is found in the past.  Do a little research and then think on it a little.  I would be thinking a "Donkey engine" and a "Donkey sled" running on greased skids with a haul line. This was known as cable logging and it disappeared around the early 1900's. 

Convert this to modern day technology with a chainsaw powered winch replacing the steam powered donkey engine winch. A small log sled on wooden skid tracks staked in place will prevent damage like rutting and the log should skid along quite nicely.  It can all be removed after you are done and leave little trace.

Here is a website to get you started. http://www.vannattabros.com/histlog.html

You aren't stealing logs out of the national forest or something are you?

[Bill Gaiche]

Chilterns, welcome to the FF. You asked a good question in general. To get the best answers or soultions to your task IMO is to state where you are located, type of terrain, how far are you transportion logs, what are you doing with logs, How high are you planning on lifting them. Good luck, bg

[Chilterns]

Hi,

Wow - 18 replies - I am ovewhelmed.

I think that the strength of this group is clearly demonstrated in that an optimal solution to the question posed will likely emerge through combining a number of the recommendations received. In particular, I like the Future Forests timber arch and this should be capable of lifting and facilitating the towing / winching out of the log to rideside with minimal damage to the ground and other trees. I suppose that Chris's contraption operates in a similar way to the log arch i.e. using the law of the lever to lift and wheels to allow movement with less drag. I like the design feature that allows this device to be used in combination with a pick up to raise and tow the log

The sled idea has merit in that it is easy to make and the log could simply be rolled / levered onto same and then winched along the ground avoiding the possibility of a whole load of dirt and stones becoming embeded in the trunk. This could also be used in part combination with Chris's contraption with the skid being fitted at the tail end of the log

I have and am considering the purchase of a mobile saw but at some point the logs will still have to be brought to a collection point to avoid the likelihood of vehicular and setting up damage being done by taking the saw to the log.

Having received such good ideas I concurr that it is quite likely very important to try out some of these options or a combination of same to establish what works the best however if the level of capital investment is greater than the potential return then that has to be recognised from the outset. 

Some clarifications :-

Yes girth = circumference at breast height.

The trees to be removed are mainly Larch and Douglas Fir with some western red cedar. I can provide a photo if that helps ?

The ground is good, fairly level, dry (at least in in summer) without any surface rocks / boulders / depressions to navigate.

Logs would need to be pulled a maximum of say 200 - 300 yards to a centralised stack / sawmill / pick up point.

The logs will be used to produce planks and boxed heart beams.

Some concerns exist about damaging rare ground flora and so I have to be able to establish and demonstrate a sensitive working method to keep the naturalists happy.

Chilterns

[Ianab]

I have and am considering the purchase of a mobile saw but at some point the logs will still have to be brought to a collection point to avoid the likelihood of vehicular and setting up damage being done by taking the saw to the log.

Not necessarily the case.

The swing blade mills are VERY light, as in get them to the logs with a quad bike and trailer. Mill the log where it falls. You don't get less impact than that unless you lift them out with a Skyhook (Helicopter?) Any machinery that's going to move heavy logs is going to create more impact, but of course if you can get the logs off the ground and rolling on wheels it's going to be less. You want to lessen the impact then you need to go lighter, and that means less logs per day.

I guess it depends on what scale you are planning? I can spend a couple of days on one decent tree, but if that recovers $1000 of timber for minimal expenses, it works.

Wow - 18 replies - I am ovewhelmed.

The folks here are ones that are actually doing this sort of thing, be it on a commercial or hobby scale. How to recover logs, without spending a fortune, or making a heck of a mess.

Ian

[Raphael]

Here was my earliest solution to the problem.
 


It's an old front axle assembly with the tie rods welded so the wheels don't flop around.
If you can pick up and drag from the far end of the log then impact is near zero.  But I'd suggest something a bit more massive than a twelve horse garden tractor if you want to go down hill that way.

Another cheap alternative is build a couple of rigs like my timber cart, all it costs is the price of a couple solid wheelbarrow tire/wheel assemblies and an axle.

[losttheplot]

Same sort of thing.
If you made 2 or put 1 in the center you could push or pull it your self.
Or just lay some short logs on the ground and use them as rollers.

[Chilterns]

Hi R & LTP,

I like the cheap, cheerfull and by all accounts effective approach that you demonstrate.

The DF log is about the same size that I have in mind to move though probably a bit longer. How do you lift the log onto the bogey ?

I have in the past used short logs as rollers to manually tow bigger logs to a stack but following an operation to correct a hernia I will now need to take much more care not to repeat this type of injury.

Chilterns

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

Hi R & LTP,

I like the cheap, cheerfull and by all accounts effective approach that you demonstrate.

The DF log is about the same size that I have in mind to move though probably a bit longer. How do you lift the log onto the bogey ?

I have in the past used short logs as rollers to manually tow bigger logs to a stack but following an operation to correct a hernia I will now need to take much more care not to repeat this type of injury.

Chilterns

How about using a small portable ramp and a Logrite cant hook?

[Raphael]

Hi R & LTP,

I like the cheap, cheerfull and by all accounts effective approach that you demonstrate.

The DF log is about the same size that I have in mind to move though probably a bit longer. How do you lift the log onto the bogey ?

I have in the past used short logs as rollers to manually tow bigger logs to a stack but following an operation to correct a hernia I will now need to take much more care not to repeat this type of injury.

Chilterns

How about using a small portable ramp and a Logrite cant hook?

  That was my approach, a couple of wedge like cut offs and a 6' cant hook.  Work at a point about 1/3 of the way down the log and roll it onto one wedge then kick the other under from the opposite side to keep it from rolling back.  Repeat as necessary until the end is high enough to slip the axle under it.  If I've got someone handy to shove wedges for me I'll use a good long crowbar and lift closer to the end.

  I've also made use of a bottle jack and a chunk of fire wood to do roughly the same thing, the trick there is getting enough support under the jack so that the log goes up vs. the jack going down. 

  But ever since buying my Kubota L39 I've been 'ambitiously lazy' and use the backhoe sometimes in combination with a stout piece of chain when the diameter gets beyond the grip of the thumb.

[losttheplot]

Hi R & LTP,


The DF log is about the same size that I have in mind to move though probably a bit longer. How do you lift the log onto the bogey ?



Chilterns

Roll the log over a length of chain then hang it from a high lift jack.
The end hanging from the truck has a wire "come along" around the log and back to its self.

It sounds like you need an Alaskan saw mill.

Where are you located?

[Raphael]

It sounds like you need an Alaskan saw mill.

Where are you located?

Or a Logosol M7, just light enough to carry in by hand and turns out really nice precise beams.

[Chilterns]

Hi Raphael & LTP,

I like the Logrite for picking up and moving the logs and have arranged to see and try one this weekend I also like the Alaskan sawmill attachment which is an excellent idea as both it and the Logosol saw bench both employ a regular heavy duty chainsaw plus ripping chain thereby helping to minimse unecesary investment and maximising the use of existing equipment.

I have also now gone through the Forestry Forum gallery and was pleased to find that this contains much good information on affordable simple ways to deal with and maneouvre logs with out the need for either the investment or use of big heavy equipment.

I came across the Clark Log jack [ http://www.clarkforest.com/shop/chainsaw/log-jack-and-saw-horses/log-jack ] and this appears to be a simple hand held device that can be used to raise the log off the ground for cutting to length.

Chilterns

[Raphael]

  I spent several months reading here (and elsewhere) before deciding to invest in the Logosol M7 and haven't regretted it for a minute, I've since extended the original mill out to 25+ feet.  Its so amazingly precise and versatile that I consider it one of my most essential timber framing tools.  Its ripped all the tapered rafters, 5 sided peak purlins and 3 sided fill timbers for my house.
  The Logosol guarantee saved me big time when my first 066 scored the cylinder after ~15hrs operation.  I told them what was going on with the saw and Logosol sent out a replacement no hassles and no shipping charges either direction.  I love my Stihl saws but they do seem to be prone to the occasional assembly defect.

  That log jack seems like a handy tool, I added the optional (removable) foot to my 6' Logrite peavy so it does the same thing.

[Ironwood]

You know one other yarding "centralizing option" may be the use of a "Gin Pole", using an exsisting tree and a pole in the area where you will work. If this is done well you will NOT damage the tree you are anchored to, and it could be a VERY effective handling method especially if you are already using some sort of winch option.

 Ironwood