Author Topic: After Thirty Seven Years (Read 2295 times)

Autocar · « **on:** May 09, 2011, 08:38:06 pm »

I bought some standing timber from a person that didn't own the woodlot. I bought these trees and paid for them figuring I would cut them this coming fall, nothing special just saw logs. I mentioned to a friend that I had bought some trees in his neighbohood and he aked where at. I told him and the name didn't ring a bell with him, a few days later he asked his brother about who owned the farm. Neather was sure but told me who farmed it so I went and talked to him only to find out these people didn't even own the farm. So I went to the real owners home and explained the whole deal, needless to say they were pretty wired. I told the owners that I was going to look these people back up, but a few trys I was stating to get fired up but did catch one of them at home a few days later. I told her to have him call me before Saturday or I was taking it to the sherrif. He ended up calling me but acted like nothing was wrong with the hole deal I explained to him it was against the law to do this plus the other two ladys were as guilty as him. It ended up he's suppose to pay me so much a week , will he come through ? Time will only tell I probably should of went right to the law but the one lady is probably close to 70 and just didn't want her in jail ,wondering if she reaily understude what he had gotten her into. The crazy thing about the whole deal right from the begainning it didn't feel right I should of walked, now I wish I would have

beenthere · « **Reply #1 on:** May 09, 2011, 08:55:34 pm »

If me, I'd be walking to the law first thing in the morning. And there would be some copies of a letter of explanation to the sherriff, the landowner, the guilty parties, and one cc to your lawyer. (unless the money didn't amount to much).

Minimum, the landowner deserves to know what you are doing about it. The sherriff needs to know, and the thieves need to know.

First you said you bought from "a person", and then mentioned going to contact "these people" of which you caught up with one of them. ?? Then you mention "the other two ladies". Sounds like you bought from many people. Puzzling just what did happen.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #2 on:** May 10, 2011, 05:36:55 am »

Contract? They protect the buyer as well as the seller. I explain that the seller guarantees the title to the trees at their expense. Something of this sort would warrant a trip to the courthouse to at least look at the deed. Then going to the folks that actually pay the taxes.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #3 on:** May 10, 2011, 05:53:16 am »

I always check ownership, it's so easy because it's all online and updated as land changes hands. Maybe it's not so easy in your state, but it's part of due diligence.

Raider Bill · « **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2011, 11:01:14 am »

Once you get a partial payment from them it may become a Civil matter as opposed to a Criminal matter taking any criminal recourse out of the picture. With that agreement between you and the thief the land deal is moot with the new agreement being mostly unenforceable without legal sanction. Go talk with your D.A. or State Attorney which ever

In my opinion, Call the Cops and get this on record! This guy took your money for something he didn't own. That's larceny by trick, fraud and a few other felonies.

Just being nosy how much we talking here? Bigger amounts get bigger criminal charges.

doctorb · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2011, 02:00:55 pm »

The people selling you the timber HAD to know it wasn't theirs to sell. Stop fooling with the crooks and get the law involved. You are only protecting yourself at this point. Forget about what money has already changed hands because the whole deal was illegal from the get go. "Back away from the skunky beer....."

Autocar · « **Reply #6 on:** May 10, 2011, 03:30:36 pm »

The three people involved from my understanding Grandma gave these trees to her grandson that has been laid off from work and was hurting. I took the contract to the grandmother, and asked if indead she gave these trees to her grandson and she remarked yes she did, she told me her eyes were so bad from sugar that she couldn't sign . So I asked her if it was ok that the other lady signed her name. She said that was fine so I had her sign her grandmas name then her name then I asked her to print her name plus date it which she did. I believe I have them dead to rights !

gunman63 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 10, 2011, 04:37:24 pm »

so Grandma owned the trees and land, or at one time?. if shes 70 and bad eyesight, and not all there mentally, shes not in trouble at all, dont have to worry about her going to jail. did she give the trees to grandson and then he sold them, or am i missing something?

Raider Bill · « **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2011, 05:11:59 pm »

Who is the owner of record for the property the Grandma or a yet to be named 4th party?
Any legal signing should be notarized.
Plus if Grandma is in fact in that bad shape she shouldn't be signing contracts. Nobody can sign anothers name without legal authority such as power of attorney.

If Grandma' does in fact own the trees you got a civil matter. If nobody named so far does and didn't know about the sale it's criminal.

Gary_C · « **Reply #9 on:** May 10, 2011, 05:23:07 pm »

Ya, good luck in holding a 70 yr old half blind grandma responsible for anything. Get back what you can and move on. Hopefully with your money back and a bit wiser.

Autocar · « **Reply #10 on:** May 10, 2011, 05:28:52 pm »

All three never owned the property, its in another family for two generations Ive found out in the last week. The fellow said grandma give him three trees [ walnut ] I told him they were to small I felt but did fine two swamp white, red oak and two white ash that has the borer in them. I gave him five hundred for the five after I talked with the grandma and she said she gave them to him to help him out. Maybe you guys are right maybe she's nuts but seemed ok to me. Its not about the five hundred bucks its about being a sure fired crock he knew it and I fell they did also.

Ron Scott · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2011, 08:01:54 pm »

Were the 3 living on the property and you thought that they owned it?

Autocar · « **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2011, 09:10:30 pm »

Yes the young man was, not sure if it's a rental or if he owns it.

Ron Scott · « **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2011, 09:39:18 pm »

We had a case here a couple years ago where an unscrupulous person was selling the timber on the lands of absentee owners. He was selling the timber under a formal contract and all. The only problem was that he didn't own the property.

This went on for a couple years before he was caught. I guess he is still in jail. The absentee owners weren't very happy when they visited their property and found that their timber was gone.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #14 on:** May 11, 2011, 05:00:31 am »

We had a case here where a daughter of an elderly lady was selling the old ladies wood off so she could buy a new car, while the old lady was living in a shack.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #15 on:** May 11, 2011, 05:51:43 am »

I had a case like that, as well. The logger bought timber off of someone without checking ownership. They logged it and they were sued. The landowner won the case and the logger was to try and get the money from who they bought the timber from. Expensive timber.

Kansas · « **Reply #16 on:** May 11, 2011, 08:23:14 am »

Had a couple of cases. One was an elderly pair calling me up danged near crying. They discovered someone had logged out their timber and wondered if I might have bought the logs. I didn't. Wasn't much you can do but sympathize with them.

Second was two guys show up with walnut logs. I buy the first two loads. About the time the third load is showing up,I get a call from a landowner, asking me if I was buying logs from these guys. Turns out one is his son-in-law, the other is his friend. They were given permission to cut dead trees into firewood. No permission whatsoever to log and sell. I unload the third load, and inform them I was calling to stop payment on the check for the second load. Things got a bit tense when I told them that. Payed the landowner for the two loads. I imagine family gatherings were a little rough for awhile after that.

Frickman · « **Reply #17 on:** May 12, 2011, 08:32:19 pm »

I have had alot of folks try to sell me timber that wasn't their's. It's a common thing around here. Most cases it is tenants or family trying to get some free money. It's pretty easy to find out who the owners really are online, which is alot easier than trudging to the courthouse like in the old days. Like Swampdonkey said, it'd just part of due diligence in buying timber.

In my contract the seller guarantees title to the timber. It doesn't replace me doing my due diligence, but it does help to add a layer of protection for me.

paul case · « **Reply #18 on:** May 13, 2011, 01:35:36 pm »

here is a real question for folks that know.

does a sawyer have to know that a seller owns the logs he cuts and delivers to your mill?

we got into one bad deal like this when we used to custom bale hay. we got caught up in the late summer and began baling some shares hay for a local business owner and dairy man. we were getting half the hay and we couldnt move our part till after we finished baling for the year. the guy we were baling for seemed to almost keep up with the baler getting his part moved home. everytime we would get finished with one field he would show up and ask ''do you want to bale some more?'' and of course we did, planning to sell it later that winter. we probably put up about 1200 bales this way before it frosted that year. we almost got all of it moved off and were down to the last place when the folks living in the house on one place locked us out. when we talked to them they said that the business man never had rights to that place. they were happy to let us move our hay off anyway. we came to find out that he didnt rent or own any of the ground that we had baled for him. didnt deal with him again.
it is a good idea to check people out whom you dont know to be honest. pc

Kansas · « **Reply #19 on:** May 13, 2011, 02:13:33 pm »

The problem is, how do you verify ownership for logs that show up to the mill. And as an addition to that, how do you know a logger paid for the logs to the landowner if he brings you logs. I have had a few instances of both over the years. In one case, one very upset landowner showed up about payment for his logs. The logger hadn't paid anything. All we got was some pallet oak logs from the logger. All the good logs went elsewhere. I told the guy that. He said he expected he could come after us. And for all I know, he could have tried. If you have your house shingled, at least in Kansas, and the roofing contractor doesn't pay for the shingles, even if you paid the contractor the lumberyard can come after you for payment. Same with other building materials. Of course, proving ownership would have been near impossible without a receipt or acknowledgment from the logger. This same logger once got thrown off another logging site. We hadn't bought any logs off of that job from him, but the landowners called. We wound up custom cutting about a semi load of logs for them that the logger left behind. We did put a reputable logger in touch with them to finish the job and we did buy a bunch of those.

Then throw in land that might be in trust among various family members, and one sells and pockets all the money, or trees secured by the bank mortgage, although I haven't heard of that in this area.

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Author Topic: After Thirty Seven Years (Read 2295 times)