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Author Topic: Taxes on Timber sales  (Read 9684 times)

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Offline Fast Randy

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Taxes on Timber sales
« on: March 16, 2011, 07:09:27 pm »
I've only been a member for a couple of days and I'm well on my way to logging and selling my Douglas Fir. (unless I wait for the market to improve)Thanks again BeenThere. And that brings me to the Tax consequences of what I'm going to do. In my browsing around I ran onto a thread about taxes that said something on the order of it was better tax ways to have your land registerd as timber land with the IRS first than to just log it. Does that make sense to any of you land owners. This is just recreational land right now. Is there anything like tree depreciation or something like that. How can I use the IRS rules to my advantage?
Thanks All

Online beenthere

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 07:36:36 pm »
I think it is very important to establish the business, and has to do with basis to get the depreciation maybe. Without that, all the income will likely be taxed, and it might be at a pretty high rate.

Others may will know much better about this.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 07:43:03 pm »
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Offline Gary_C

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2011, 08:43:49 pm »
Jeff gave you the good reference for tax information.

But I would caution you, if you know little about the tax implications of your timber sale right now, you better be a fast learner or seek professional help or you could learn a costly lesson in favor of the IRS.

And it would require very specific and personal information about your financial situation to give you good advice.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline WDH

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2011, 08:52:39 pm »
Timber is depleted through a Depletion Rate that is established when the land and timber is purchased or when you spend capital to reforest a tract.  It is pretty complicated, so you have some reading and research to do.  However, post any specific questions that you may have.

How did you come about owning this property?  Did you buy it recently, or has it been in the family a long time?  A Forester may be able to help you establish a Depletion Basis for your timber depending on when and how you acquired it.
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Offline Fast Randy

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 10:36:07 pm »
This land (46 acers) is part of a recreational development. With lots from 5 acers to 50+. Out of all the lots there is only Douglas Fir on two. Mine and my neibors. I was one of the first buyers in 1992 when I realilzed right off that it was Douglas Fir. The surounding land won't sell for $1000 an acer. I have only been there twice sence I bought it. Thanks for your reply.

Offline WDH

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2011, 11:17:09 pm »
A Forester should be able to calculate a reasonable estimate of the fair market value of the timber when you purchased the property by subtracting growth determined through a series of increment borings and estimating a volume of timber at the time of purchase.  From past records, the Forester can determine the market price at that time for the estimated timber products and calculate a fair market value of the timber.  This will serve as the cost basis to use to deduct your cost from the sale of any of the timber that you may choose to cut, thereby reducing you tax liability.
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Offline Fast Randy

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2011, 01:26:37 pm »
Thanks Guys. Greate info.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2011, 04:19:11 am »
In Canada you pretty much have to be a farmer or logger that uses the land for his living and followed a management plan. And even then, you have to be managing the land for timber and not simply liquidating the place and moving on. If it is clearcut, it has to be taken to the next phase with either planting or thinning. Thus, there is input costs into it's management. There also has to be a reasonable expectation of profit.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2012, 03:22:15 pm »
TWO TIMBER TAX WEBINARS

http://www.forestrywebinars.net/upcoming-webinars-1

Presenters/Authors:
Dr. Linda Wang, National Timber Tax Specialist, USDA Forest Service
Dr. John Greene, Research Forester, Southern Research Station, USDA Forest Service

1.  Timber Tax Update for 2011 Tax Filing Season
Date:  1 February at 12:00
Duration: 1.5 hours 

2.  Timber Basis
Date:  22 February at 12:00
Duration: 1.5 hours   

~Ron

Offline WDH

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2012, 09:45:11 pm »
In the US, timber is taxed as a Capital Gain if you have owned it more than one year, and the tax rate on Capital Gains has been lower than the ordinary income tax. 
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

'If she wants to play lumberjack, she's going to have to learn to handle her end of the log.'
Dirty Harry

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 05:44:52 pm »
Tax Tips for Forest Landowners for the 2012 Tax Year
by Linda Wang, National Timber Tax Specialist
and John Greene, Research Forester, Southern Research Station

http://www.timbertax.org/developments/TaxTips2012-Final.pdf
~Ron

Offline loggah

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2013, 05:28:32 pm »
Capital gains here in N.H. ,but we also have a state timber tax also. If you can show a high cost of harvest you wont have to pay much tax. It all comes down to the loggers chance , terrain,distance , work involved in getting the wood out.
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Online clearcut

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2013, 11:08:26 pm »
You have two important considerations, state taxes and federal taxes. Not knowing which state I cannot comment on those - they vary too much.

Federal tax law does not make much distinction between types of land where the timber is cut, while state law may. To qualify for capital gains treatment of income, the feds do care about when economic interested is transferred (IRC Section 631b). Under some cases, lump sum sales can qualify. For most landowners you must retain economic interest until the timber is first accurately scaled, and you must be paid on a per unit basis, otherwise the sale will be considered ordinary income, taxed at a higher rate, and subject to Social Security deductions. 

The timbertax.org site does a great job at explaining much of the federal rules and regulations. Your state's landowner association or Cooperative Extension office may have non-technical explanations of state taxes.

Taxation of income derived from forestry investments is a complex topic at both the federal and state levels. Tax laws, regulations, and guidelines are many, detailed, and technical. Tax legislation is subject to frequent change and judicial interpretation.

General Rules
Assuming that you want to pay the least amount of taxes that you legally can, and you are willing to spend some time learning about tax law, doing some bookkeeping, and possibly hiring a qualified accountant to help you out, the following suggestions hold for most people. Your situation will vary, and you are advised to consult with a tax professional for specific advice.

• Keep excellent and detailed records
• Keep your records well organized
• The costs of owning land should be expensed
(deducted in the year they occur), depreciated if they cannot be expensed, and added to the basis (capitalized) when they can be neither expensed nor depreciated.
• Treat your property like a business.
• Spread income over tax years if possible.
• Learn more about timber taxation.
• Hire a tax professional knowledgeable about resource based taxation.
• Plan for the future, especially your estate.

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 04:15:10 pm »
Upcoming Free Webinar:  Income Tax on Timber

For Your 2012 Tax Return Filing 
 
1.5 Hour CFE for Foresters
 
Date: Feb. 13, 2013 (Wednesday)
Time: 12:00 Noon – 1:30 pm Eastern Time
Who Should Attend: Woodland owners, foresters, loggers, tax preparers, and land managers
Presenters:   Dr. Linda Wang, National Timber Tax Specialist, US Forest Service
                          Dr. John Greene, Retired Research Forester, US Forest Service
Contact: Brandon Hatchett, hatchett@uga.edu

Topics include:  Tax reporting on timber transactions as well as the latest sweeping tax law changes from the “fiscal cliff” package
                               
To access to the webinar: http://forestrywebinar.net
Detailed access instructions: http://www.forestrywebinars.net/faq                                                           

This event will be archived for later viewing.
                                               
Sponsored by: US Forest Service, NC State University Extension Forest Resources, Southern Regional Extension Forestry Office, Texas A&M AgriLife Extension

Linda Wang
National Timber Tax Specialist
USDA Forest Service
 
~Ron

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2013, 04:57:14 pm »
TIMBER SALE INCOME TAX PROGRAMS

http://michigansaf.org/Calendar/calendar.htm
http://miforestpathways.net/1-Calendar.htm

Otsego Conservation District
Presenter:  Susan Metcalfe
20 February, Gaylord

Conservation District Programs - U.P.
Presenter:  Dr. Karen Potter-Witter, MSU Professor of Forestry
5 March, Sault
6 March, Escanaba
7 March, Crystal Falls



~Ron

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2013, 11:01:18 am »
News Release

Release Date:       February 28th – March 15, 2013

Contact Person:   Kama Ross, District Forester
         Missaukee and Wexford Conservation Districts
         231-775-7681, ext. 3
         kama.ross@macd.org



LOCAL CONSERVATION DISTRICTS TO HOST TIMBER AND TAXES WORKSHOP
The second of many education workshops to be provided by the Forestry Assistance Program

Cadillac, MI – The Wexford and Missaukee Conservation Districts’ Forestry Assistance Program has announced it will organize a workshop concerning federal tax provisions related to forestland management and timber sale income for forestland owners, natural resource professionals, tax preparers, and other interested citizens.   The workshop will be held on Tuesday, March 19 from 6:30 to 9:00 pm in the Student Center at Baker College, 9600 E. 13th Street, Cadillac.

The workshop will feature the expertise of Karen Potter-Witter, Ph.D. of Michigan State University.  Dr. Potter-Witter holds over 30 years of professional experience in investment and financial analysis and economics.  This 2.5 hour workshop will cover the basics that most forest landowners and the professionals working with them, need to be aware of in order to make good decisions related to the income taxes on timber sales.  The workshop will help landowners learn how to minimize the amount of federal income tax paid on timber sale revenue.  There will also be a discussion about Michigan’s Commercial Forest Act (CFA) and the Qualified Forest Property Act (QFP).

Cost is $20 per family if paid by March 15, or $25 per family at the door.  For more information or to register, contact Kama Ross, District Forester, Wexford Conservation District at 231-775-7681, ext. 3 or kama.ross@macd.org.

The Timber and Taxes Workshop is jointly sponsored by:  Michigan Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, Michigan Department of Natural Resources, Michigan State University Extension, and Michigan Association of Conservation Districts. 







~Ron

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2013, 06:53:48 pm »
TIMBER TAX PROGRAMS - SAF CFE CREDITS

The tax programs have been assigned 2.5 category 1 SAF CFE credits.

Conservation Districts and Dr. Karen Potter-Witter, MSU Forestry Professor
http://michigansaf.org/Calendar/calendar.htm

March 5, Sault Ste. Marie, Soo Township Hall  6-9 pm
March 6, Escanaba, Bay DeNoc Community College  7-10 pm
March 7, Crystal Falls, Iron County Court House  6-9 pm
March 19, Cadillac, Baker College Student Center  6:30-9:30 pm
March 20, West Branch, Forwards Conference Center  6:30-9:30 pm                     
March 21, Rogers City,  County Courthouse  6:30-9:30 pm
~Ron

Offline lumberjack48

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2013, 07:21:25 pm »
We used to hind our stock piled wood in the spring. If the State tax man found our piles we had to pay tax on it, he'd run all over the county looking for stock piled wood. I can see him plan as day a little guy, this was back in the 70's.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2014, 04:03:21 pm »
For Immediate Release: February, 2014
 
Workshop on Managing your Timber and Taxes
What:   Timber and Taxes
When:      26, February, 2014. 4:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.   
Where:      Whiting Forest – 2303 Eastman Ave, Midland, MI
Cost:      $20.00/person (includes a light dinner)
Information:   Call Joelle Ferguson at 989.835.4886 or email jferguson@littleforks.org
MIDLAND – The Little Forks Conservancy, Saginaw Conservation District and Michigan Forestry Assistance Program are pleased to present a Timber Tax workshop featuring Dr. Karen Potter-Witter.

Dr. Potter- Witter is a faculty member of Michigan State University, Department of Forestry, and affiliated with the MSU Extension. Serving as a professor of forest economics she has over 30 years of experience in this field.  And she has published numerous journals and reports in this area.

The workshop will cover federal income tax provisions related to forestland management and timber sales. This will include deductibility of forest management expenses, reporting timber sale income, and important IRS forms to file. There will also be information about Michigan’s forest property tax acts. The Qualified Forest Program, revised last year, as a state tax incentive program designed to encourage sustainable and economically viable management of Michigan’s private forest resources.

Additionally, bring your smart phone and learn about the MISIN (Mid-West Invasive Species Network) phone app. and how to report locations with invasive species.  You can assist with an important mapping effort throughout the Saginaw Bay Watershed.

For more details, contact your local conservation district or download a reservation form at www.saginaw.org.  For additional questions you can reach the Saginaw Conservation District at 989.781.4077 extension 5. Registration deadline is Friday, February 21st.  Fee is $20.00/ person.

The Little Forks Conservancy works with landowners to permanently protect land with natural and cultural resources that add to the quality of life in our community. The Conservancy has helped private landowners protect over 3,000 acres in Mid-Michigan, including over 18 miles of waterways and shoreline.

The Michigan Forestry Assistance Program aims to provide support and education to non-industrial private owners of forestland to help with planning and management questions.  MI-FAP foresters can be contacted through county conservation districts, and currently cover 39 counties in the Upper and Lower Peninsulas.

Contact:
Joelle Ferguson
105 Post Street
Midland, MI 48640
jferguson@littleforks.org
p: 989.835.4886
f:  989.835.4895
www.littleforks.org
~Ron

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2014, 06:59:14 pm »
RE:  TIMBER TAX WORKSHOPS

24 February, Tomahawk (WI), Susan Metcalfe
26 February, Midland (MI), Karen Potter-Witter
9 March, Tomahawk (WI), Susan Metcalfe

More information at:  http://michigansaf.org/Calendar/calendar.htm
~Ron

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2015, 03:10:25 pm »
REVISED:
2014 Tax Tips Bulletin


Linda Wang, National Timber Tax Specialist with the U.S. Forest Service, has revised Tax Tips for Forest Landowners for the 2014 Tax Year. The revisions reflect changes in law as of December 2014.

This publication reviews the major Federal income tax laws to help you file your 2014 income tax
return. Although tax laws on timber transactions are not common knowledge, they are an important part of the ongoing cost of owning and managing timber, engaging in forest stewardship activities, and complying with tax law.

http://www.timbertax.org/developments/TaxTips2014.pdf
~Ron

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2015, 02:14:34 pm »
Timber Tax Workshop “Keep More $$$ From Your Timber Harvests”

Susan Metcalfe from Metcalfe Forestry LLC & Burns Timber Tax Service

When:
Monday Evening February 9th
5:30pm-8pm

Where:
Clare County Building Room A
Harrison, MI
In the basement

Cost:
$FREE
Workshop Sponsored by the Clare Conservation District

With Questions and Registration call or email Kylee, Clare/ Gladwin District Forester, at (989) 539-6401 or kylee.berger@macd.org

You may also register in person in the office at
225 W Main Street Harrison, MI 48625
Registration is not required but it’s nice to have a head count prior
~Ron

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2015, 12:53:35 pm »
2015 Tax Tips Bulletin Available

Dr. Linda Wang, National Timber Tax Specialist with the U.S. Forest Service, has finalized Tax Tips for Forest Landowners for the 2015 Tax Year. This publication reviews the major Federal income tax laws to help you file your 2015 income tax return. Although tax laws on timber transactions are not common knowledge, they are an important part of the ongoing cost of owning and managing timber, engaging in forest stewardship activities, and complying with tax law.
~Ron

Online beenthere

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2015, 01:40:49 pm »
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline pine

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2015, 02:20:32 pm »
No I think he is referring to this one.  That one was 2014.

2015 Tax Tips for Forest Land Owners

Online beenthere

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2015, 02:46:41 pm »
smiley_thumbsup

thanks pine
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2015, 04:34:28 pm »
Yes, the 2015 information is now available.
~Ron

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2016, 05:23:01 pm »
Timber Tax Filing for the 2015 Tax Year
Time: 1:00 – 2:00 Eastern Time, 22 January 2016, Friday

Timber tax laws have changed due to the new tax law that was passed by Congress in December 2015. Brand new tax provisions on capital gains for timber corporations will affect timber businesses and owners. Business deductions on equipment costs have been increased significantly. Special charitable donation deduction on qualified conservation easement was extended.

To help the 2015 tax return filing, this one-hour webinar will cover the rules for timber tax reporting, including the latest law changes. It will cover the 1099 filing that the foresters must know. Bring your tax questions to get answers from the presenter.

Credits: One hour of SAF CFE Category I credits have been applied for.

Who will benefit: landowners, foresters, loggers, timber companies, extension agents, natural resource agency program staff and directors, CPAs, Tax Enrolled Agents, attorneys, and other tax preparers

Presenter: Dr. Linda Wang, National Timber Tax Specialist, USDA Forest Service

~Ron

Offline pine

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2016, 07:48:58 pm »
Any link to the source and more specifically how to register for the webinar?

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~Ron

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Re: Taxes on Timber sales
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2016, 01:32:05 pm »
2016 Tax Tips Bulletin Available

Dr. Linda Wang, National Timber Tax Specialist with the U.S. Forest Service, has finalized Tax Tips for Forest Landowners for the 2016 Tax Year. This publication reviews the major Federal income tax laws to help you file your 2016 income tax return. Although tax laws on timber transactions are not common knowledge, they are an important part of the ongoing cost of owning and managing timber, engaging in forest stewardship activities, and complying with tax law.

http://www.fs.fed.us/spf/coop/library/taxtips2016.pdf
~Ron