Metal Detection In Logs

[Papa Dave]

Help is needed in determining the best method to detect metal in logs before you saw them.  One person recommended a Fisher 1212x model for $160.00 and said it would detect metal 4" deep.

If anyone has experience with the above Fisher detector or another idea, I would appreciate your ideas.

[Tom]

Papa Dave,
Fisher makes some pretty good detectors and so does white, who has 3 models of about the same caliber in the 130-200 dollar range.  Garrett also makes a good detector, I have one.  It doesn't take a lot of money to get a detector that will work pretty good on logs.  Most of the money over 150 dollars is spent on fancy do-dads.  my Garrett will detect about 8 inches to the end of a 16 penny nail but sometimes it won't go off in less than that.  It was explained to me by the fellow at the metal detector shop that I use that detectors work by noteing the difference in density of metal to soil or wood or rock.  That's why a detector works best when you sweep the area as opposed to just pointing the coil at something.

Wet wood, he says, like some mineralized soils, fakes the detector out by providing a fake similarity in density to the object you are trying to detect.  That's why a metal detector may not find the nail that you can see with your bare eye.

My detector cost over 600 dollars in the early 1980's and the reason was because it has depth registering capabilities, identification capabilities, discrimination and a brand name.

In the case of metal detectors I think the brand name is important.  

I was awarded a Little Wizard metal detector the other day and have found it to useful on boards, dropped screws and parts, and to a lesser degree it helps to clear an area  of nails in a cant after I have already found them with my blade.  It is handy because of its size but until I feel more comfortable with its capabilities I will still depend on my Garrett.  

Now, regardless of the hand held machine you use, it is easier and more productive if you can search a tree while it is still on the stump.  most tramp metal is within 8 feet of the ground and when the tree is standing you can walk around it.

One other thing.  If you talk to a knowledgeable coin shooter or treasure hunter, he will tell you that out of the major brands one will be better on a site than the other.  That is why you find Fisher, Garrett, White and a few of the others to be more popular in one section of the country than the other. There are different types of soil at the beach than in the Appalachians and different yet in the Rockies.

My suggestion is to get a good detector with discrimination because you will find that there is more to it than finding nails in logs and you will open up a whole new arena of entertainment.   I look forward to spending my lunch breaks and evenings detecting around old sites where I saw.  Most of the old folks didn't throw pennies in the yard but they lost a lot of axe heads, hammers, hand tools and other items I find interesting.

http://www.tesoroworld.com/Choosing.htm
http://www.fisherlab.com/1_Hobby/hobby.htm
http://www.garrett.com/hobby/hob-pro-gti.asp
http://www.whitemetaldetectors.com/hobby.html

[woodmills1]

i use an older whites detector and it does a good job if i carefully sweep ever square inch of surface.  after you get a detector the next step is to figure a way to remove the tramp metal.  have fun!  the whites company sent me free operating manuals for their machine even thought i got it used.  thats pretty good service.

[Jeff]

I have found that new saw teeth in a circular is the best metal detector there is. Not only detector but attractant.

[Tom]

But they cost so much, long term.  I only get one use from a band that I've used to find a nail. :-/

[Jeff]

You can figure a buck a tooth for insert bits.  One nail usually will take out 3 to 5 teeth, problem is, nobody uses just one nail in a tree for anything.  

I am starting to see more short aluminum nails used for posting signs. thing is, usually the signs from previous years were attached with whatever was available including big ole fence staples.

[Ron Wenrich]

Posted signs are generally put up with roofing nails.  They are usually layered.  

I only replace teeth that are brand new, to keep the set matched.  Otherwise I'll repair the teeth with a swage or put in an old tooth until the next change.

A box of teeth are running me about $75.  I can get a little more that 2 changes from 1 box.  Depending on species, I can get 150-300 Mbf/box.  Its been a long time since I have run a set of teeth without hitting nails.

[Papa Dave]

OK, looks like ya'll are chasing a lot of rabbits.  Is there anyone out there that has used the fisher 1212x...  I would like to know how deep it will penetrate in the log.  

P.S.  Tom, what about breakfast?

[Tom]

And you guys are supposed to be cutting woods trees.  I saw yard trees and cringe when I drive up in the driveway.  The hausfrau won't use a nail.......if 6 will work and Pa uses spikes to hang a garage sale sign.  Both are familiar only with the driving side of the head and have never been introduced to the claw.  "It's just an aluminum nail" I've been told as I remove the blade that has several teeth set at 120 thou.
Or one remark that always puzzles me is "been in there a long time...galvanized". ? ?    Or..."nothing in that tree, I've lived here 30 years and nobody touches my trees" as I put the blade into his 150 year old oak.  

I cut a pine the other day for a tree surgeon that, once upon a time, somebody put an eye bolt completely through the tree.  It was about a 5/8's bolt and had a nut on each end, one up against the eye and the other on the back side of the tree.  The tree had overgrown the whole thing by about 6 inches.

Cedar is  notorious for small nails.  I guess they hang flower pots and yard ornaments on them.  I've run my metal detector over them to find areas with "thousands" of small nails.  Well, maybe hundreds.

Pecan in the south is usually loaded with nails.  I've been told that there was the day when nails were driven into them to provide iron so that they would bear better. ? ? ?

Then you have the big game hunter who must think it very macho to drive a large caliber, jacketed bullet into the heart of a tree.  I've seen what looks like 30-06 rounds come out of a log that was 40 feet in the air and wonder who was shooting squirrels with an M-1. :-/

[Ron Scott]

I recently got a White IDX Pro and look forward to searches with it. Fisher, Garrett, and White seem to be the popular makes from what I know about them.

[CHARLIE]

Is there anyone out there that has used the fisher 1212x...   I would like to know how deep it will penetrate in the log.  

Is anyone gonna answer Papa Dave's question? :-/

[Papa Dave]

Charlie, I bought a fisher 1212x today.  So, we will know how well it works before long.

Dave

[CHARLIE]

Well.....at least ya found out a lot about what you didn't ask

[woodmills1]

if you really want penetration spring for a rens.  one of my log truckers has one and it will spot metal from the cab of his truck.  really though it will find almost any metal.  but as i said earlier, how do you get the stuff out once you find it.

[Tom]

Tools:

Straight Claw (rip) Hammer with the claw sharpened from the inside so the outside will lay flat with the wood.  It is used for a digging tool.

Axe: for really digging when you need to.

Chisels: about 3/4 inch for getting an exposed nail or piece of one clear of wood enough to pull out with a claw hammer.

Vice Grips:  to pull nails
Pump pliers: to pull nails

Wooden maul:  works best on chisels so you don't get steel splinters in your hands and eyes

There is an old device for removing nails that works good and can be found in some hardware stores.  A picture is needed because words fail me.

Chainsaw: for plunge cutting to metal or for bucking the log to a shorter length.  (sometimes the only alternative.)
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Pass the metal detector over the log and find the metal.  Remember that the mill is steel and that there may be metal in the ground beneath the log.  Make sure you are searching only the log.

Start with the hammer or chisel and dig a hole about 3-4 inches in diameter until the metal is exposed.

Grip with vise grips or water pump pliers or hammer claw and remove.

Check again till clean.

If you hit a nail with the mill then remember that there is not only metal in the cant that needs to be removed but metal in the board that was just cut.  If you leave it then someone will destroy a planer blade.

I have removed so much metal from a "valuable" log that the board looked like swiss cheese.  Remove as little wood as possible and go till the customer says stop. $$$

[Papa Dave]

Great advice Tom.  By the way my new fisher 1212x will be here today.. Any tips on how to use it and scan with it. I am not really sure that when it goes off I will really know exactly where the metal is since the hoop is 8 inches in diameter.

P.S. The cheese grits were real good this morning.

[Tom]

wave the coil side to side, keeping it an equal distance from the surface.  If you detect a target, focus your eyes on the area where the detector beeped.  As you pass back and forth your mind will focus on the spot.  Then move the coil at a 90 degree to the first pass and do the same thing.  You will be surprised at how close to the target you well be.
Practice on a dime or nail or whatever thrown on the ground.  You don't have to hide it, just go through the regimen.

You can get an idea how deep you are detecting by lifting the detector higher and higher off of the dime until it no longe beeps.  It usually detects about the same distance in ground or wood as in air.

The first thing to search for fun is the area around the entry to your house where you might have pulled a coin from your pocket when you were getting your keys.  Where you get in and out of your car.  Where your kids hung upside down on the swing.  Just remember that you will find metal where you forgot it was put, like the reinforcing in the concrete etc.

I didn't have any cheese in mine this morning but I did have a about 8 inches of really spicey country sausage link, as big as 3 thumbs, made by a friend.  A bite of that and a bite of grits'll make you slap your mamma.  

[woodmills1]

tom, i sure can tell you have harvested your share of tramp metal.  stack of pancakes with sunnyside eggs inbetween and sausage on the side.

[Jeff_Green]

  Tom,  That Garratt (spelling?) of yours is probably a Groundhog isn't it?? - What a great machine!! ... I have owned 'em all and now I have a Whites Eagle 2 with loops up to 3' in diameter (for them really deep nails!) ...... Just returned from Arizona looking for buried Spanish gold - Found a real nice Mountain Dew can ...... Still wondering if I will ever be able to sucessfully down a grit!! ....

[Tom]

Hey Jeff,

I had thought you were lost.

My Garrett is a Master Hunter 7 ADS and has done me admirably.  It is so banged up that I am almost embarrassed to send it back for repair.  It has loose connections inside somewhere and won't settle down.  Every time I move it it goes off.  I have gotten to where I can read in between the lines enough to find stuff but it gives me a headache.

My first detector, is in the barn somewhere, was a White's goldmaster BFO.  I don't think anybody uses Beat Frequency Ocillation anymore and I can't find the "huge" batteries that it uses so I just stored it with the rest of my antiquities.

I would like to make a trip like you describe. Dreams are always gold mines and reality is Mountain Dew cans.

I don't care what I find, it's always exciting to find "something".
I take that back...I'm not fond of Pop Tops.  Putting the downside of finding tramp metal in logs because of sawmill damage aside, I even get a kick out of digging an old screwdriver, bullet or nail out of the log.  It's way down my list of fun things to do though.