Tree Farmer

[woodtroll]

I have heard rumors that Tree Farmer is going to start charging money.
Has anyone else heard this?
Have your local markets started paying more for certified forests products?
The market here has not.
Certification is the big selling point, but our markets are so low it is hard to sell any wood, let alone certified wood.

[beenthere]

Who is Tree Farmer ?

[woodtroll]

http://www.treefarmsystem.org/

If you do not know, it shows how well know they are.

It is an organization set up to help private forest owners.  They offer a magazine, which gives info on taxes, estate planning, wildlife management and forestry. They promote good quality forest management.

[beenthere]

I'm with you now.

The Tree Farm Association has been taking money for a few years.

(Tree Farmer is the name of their publication )

I bailed out on them when they got wrapped up in the certification game.

[Phorester]

The first year a property becomes a certified Tree Farm the Tree Farmer magazine is free.  After that, if the landowner still wants to get the magazine, he has to pay for the subscription.   The landowner is still a certified Tree Farm whether he gets the magazine or not.  Each Tree Farm has to be re-certified every 5 years.  Some may be re-certified sooner if they are one of the subset of Tree Farms chosen every year in a State for audit purposes. As long as the criteria are met, he remains a certified Tree Farm for another 5 years unless he chooses to leave the program.

In my part of VA, certified wood is sought after by the local pulpwood buyer, and they will pay more for it.  So if you are a certified Tree Farm, you get paid more money for your pulpwood.

Like it or not,  and personally I don't, certified wood is here to stay.  

The American Tree Farm system (ATF) was started in 1941, so they are the oldest program for recognizing a landowner who practices good forest management.  It originally started just as that - a way to recognize and reward landowners who practiced good forest management - and has now morphed into a forest certification system as well. It is also the only certified forest system that does not limit the landowner from doing any and every forest management practice that is recommended by a professional forester. And it is free for the landowner.

[John Mc]

It is also the only certified forest system that does not limit the landowner from doing any and every forest management practice that is recommended by a professional forester.

I wondered how they handle states like mine that have no forester licensing or certification? Anyone who wants to can say they're a forester, regardless of education or experience. You just hang out your shingle, and start charging. (Fortunately, there are some very good foresters and loggers here as well... you just need to know where to look. I feel sorry for landowners without any "connections" and little background in the subject who don't have someone to ask for a good referral.)

And it is free for the landowner.

Funded in large part by our friends to the North...

Here's the story I heard. Maybe one of you can tell me how badly it's been twisted as it was passed along: The US had some bogus duties on imports of Canadian forest products. This was either overturned by whatever court hears these international trade issues (or the US "powers that be" knew it was about to be overturned -- I forget which). The ruling had little teeth, since there was no mechanism to force the US pay back the duties collected. It could have dragged on for years, with the US leaving the duties in place as the argument dragged on. Apparently a deal was struck whereby the US would remove the duty, return the funds already paid, if Canada (or some industry group in Canada??) would make a "donation" to some sort of sustainable forestry fund in the US. (The donation was a fraction of the total duties, but still a very significant pile of money.) A good chunk of those funds went into funding the Tree Farm expansion into a Sustainable Certification program.

Anyone else heard much about this?

[Phorester]

JOHN Mc, VA has no licensing or registration for foresters either.  As in your State anybody can call themselves a forester.

Even is States like ours though, The ATS requires a Tree Farm inspector to be either a graduate professional forester or a graduate forest technician from  Society of American Foresters (SAF) accredited school.  

To qualify as a Tree Farm, the landowner has to have at least 10 contiguous acres of woods, have a written forest management plan prepared by a professional forester, and has to have carried out a few management practices.

[beenthere]

............................
To qualify as a Tree Farm, the landowner has to have at least 10 contiguous acres of woods, have a written forest management plan prepared by a professional forester, and has to have carried out a few management practices.

What would the ballpark cost be to the landowner of those 10+ acres?

[Magicman]

It cost me nothing.  I sat down with the Tree Farm Inspector, who is also our County Forester and filled it out.  We then drove out and make a walk through.  I ended up with a a management plan and the Tree Farm Sign.

I didn't do it because I thought that I needed any help deciding what to do, but it was helpful hearing suggestions from a professional.

[chain]

We've been certified since '97, our local state resource forester recommended our forest farm to a certifying consulting forester. The forester spent alot of time cruising our timber and told me one day that, he thought 'he had seen every tree in our property'. I've no doubts about that because the cruise estimated not only the standing volume of timber, but also indicated the types of stands of trees and species with volume estimates for each, growth rates, conditions of the stand and recommendations of each compartment of timber to manage.

Even today, I can reference each stand, and try to follow management instructions for quality timber management. There was no cost to us.

For whatever the reason, we never received a Tree Farmer sign. Yet most importantly to our family we did receive a "Centennial Forest" stewardship sign, in commemoration of 100 years of ownership...1900-2000....and hopfully, beyond!
 

[Ron Scott]

Remind your certifying forester that you want one of the new Tree Farm signs.

[Phorester]

BEENTHERE, as everybody says, it's free.

[SwampDonkey]

Most woodlot owners here have not certified. The only thing a woodlot owner gets for a management plan subsidy (to write it and walk the woods by a forestry professional) is $100. Well it costs a minimum of $600 these days on a 100 acre woodlot. And that is cheap, but no one is interested mostly because of out of pocket cost and no guaranteed market access and no premium of the wood under certification, and no tax relief for "doing the right thing". Even Time Warner who was behind a lot of it up here has not ponied up a dime. And has said it will buy certified only, no choice about it, their is no premium commitment and no real obligation to buy. So the woodlot owner takes on all risks so someone else benefits and an improve corporate image because they are so top heavy with too many people with a Messiah complex.

[beenthere]

BEENTHERE, as everybody says, it's free.

And from an earlier quote

To qualify as a Tree Farm, the landowner has to have at least 10 contiguous acres of woods, have a written forest management plan prepared by a professional forester, and has to have carried out a few management practices.

Who is paying for the written forest management plan by a professional forester?  

I'm hearing about $2000 in WI to get a plan written.  They used to be "free" to the landowner when the State district foresters wrote or approved a management plan. But lately, in recent years, the State foresters have been told (instructed) to not write them. For awhile, the State was paying private foresters to write plans for the forests in Managed Forest Lands. I am reading that they do not now.  To keep landowners from dropping out of the MFI program, the State has raised the forest land assessment from $1000/A to $3000/A.  A pretty hefty jump IMO.

My State District Forester planted the Tree Farm sign on my land first around 1971. Replaced it around 1990. I removed it when the deer hunters read that sign as an open invitation to go deer hunting on that land without asking permission.

But I'm still curious about the "its free" comments.

Maybe that means to the landowner there is no up-front cost ??

[SwampDonkey]

I forgot to make mention, that the $600 + management plan does not certify the woodlot. The certification can be several thousand dollars from what I recall, like at least $5,000 if memory serves. And that can vary depending on what the certifier wants to charge. They are usually firms that are contracted to certify and I suspect the government puts money in their hands, not the woodlot owner's. I'm not sure on that. But we have a couple outfits here and I can't imagine there being enough business to be profitable long term because no one on woodlots is being certified (<1%) and audits on crown are years apart. I think some outfits are actually engineering firms. So maybe that aspect pays the bills long term.

[Ron Wenrich]

When I did inspections many years ago, I would do those inspection plans for free.  They weren't as detailed as you would get if you were paying money.  But, many consultants used to offer the service.  It was more of a promotional thing where you got face time with an interested landowner and a good marketing tool.

We also offered to make landowners Tree Farmers when we did harvesting.  We already had some sort of management already started, and it didn't take much.  Very few landowners were interested. 

[Texas Ranger]

What Ron said, and I would add that after a couple of decades the requests stopped in Texas.  State did/does all of them now.

[woodtroll]

We do plans here (in WY) for free. Our Stewardship plans meets all the Tree Farmer Plan requirements. So that part is an easy fit. But the forest owner  has to follow the plan and all state BMP's to be in Tree Farm.
Our stewardship plans are for information only.
Few plans get paid for because of cost and poor timber prices, and we do them for free.
There is no tax incentive, forest ground is already low.
Both programs supply a sign that seem to make good targets.
I know some states give a healthy property tax incentive if a plan is written and followed.

So here the Tree Farm Certification may start out being free, But I do not see it staying if our forest owners have to pay.
I would rather they put their money into forest management anyway.

[Phorester]

There are different things being discussed here.  Forest Certification is different than Tree Farm designation, although the 2 can be had together.  Since SWAMPDONKEY is in Canada, obviously he's not talking about the American Tree Farm System.  [DONK, is there a similiar organization in Canada?]  Remember too that each State is different as you can tell from other posters here from different States.  Also, the ATF is different now than it was even 5 years ago.  

BEENTHERE, what I mean by "it's free" is that the ATF does not charge a landowner to become a certified Tree Farm. Other Forest Certification programs charge to belong. It costs a landowner no more to become a Tree Farmer than he has already paid for his land and a management plan. The cost of a management plan can't be considered as a cost of the Tree Farm program since that's a stand alone cost. You can have a plan and still not be in the Tree Farm program.   In some States, management plans are free from the State forestry agency.  In VA they were until last year; now the VDOF charges for these plans just as consultant foresters always have. VDOF cost is $1.50/acre with a minimum charge of $200. But there is at least one forest industry in VA that does management plans for free, but you have to join their program for a multi-year commitment to them.  And some consulting foresters in VA will do a management plan at no charge to a landowner who has hired them to do a timber sale. (So you can argue that that plan really isn't "free")  So it's the famous forester answer....., it depends...., on where you're at, what services and resources are available in your locality, what you're looking to do with your property.

[SwampDonkey]

I was wondering what the benefit was to tree farm if it's not a certification. Is it a tax shelter scheme?


We actually looked at Tree Farm as a "certification" system for woodlots here in Canada. But we have adapted a pretty straight forward approach, without all the legal gobly gook language of the industrial certifications, employing the Pan-Canadian Certification (8 page doc), here is additional information.

"David Refkin, Director of Sustainable Development for Time Inc. has made the following statement:

"Time Inc. would like to congratulate the Canadian Federation of Woodlot Owners on the development of the Pan-Canadian Woodlot Certification Program. This program, which incorporates third party certification, represents a major advance in the effort to broaden forestry certification programs to smaller private landowners, a key part of the fiber supply chain. Time Inc., the worlds largest magazine publishing company, is a member of the Paper Working Group, 21 companies focused on increasing the availability of environmentally preferable paper."

[woodtroll]

Donk, That is kind of my question. If I need to promote the program, (and I have been floating around Tree Farmer for some years without being 100% sold on it) I would like to be able to tell it's benefits. It seemed to be a good magazine, then with certification, that had possibility. I worry about hooks, once you are in and the program changes and charges $ to be in.
There are no tax benefits to Tree Farm. It is separate from state stewardship programs. Some of which reduce property taxes.

[SwampDonkey]

We only get tax breaks here on woodlots if it is part of a business with expectation of profits, like part of the farm or owned by a silviculture contractor type business who harvests wood for income. To qualify it has to have a management plan. If it's a hobby or sitting idly by to be later liquidated or heirship property it will be taxed as income or capital gains respectively.

We get government assistance for PCT thinning and planting, but not for activities that generates revenues.

[Magicman]

I would think that the Tree Farm program was in place long before anyone dreamed up "Certification".

I was wondering what the benefit was to tree farm if it's not a certification.

Have you ever thought about Pride.  I am very proud of the fact that I have taken enough interest in the family property that I now own to try to improve it and leave it in much better condition than it was in when I bought it.   Having a Registered Forester to guide me and give advice was worthwhile.  I am very confidant of the forestry practices that I am following.

Plus I like my Sign.

[SwampDonkey]

We have something similar , now that I know what Tree Farm represents. You see we looked at it as a certification up here because I almost think Maine now does.

We call it Woodlot Owner of The Year, plaques are given and signage (sometimes). It is usually awarded by forestry companies in NB and Woodlot Owner Groups. DNR does not give awards and recognition. They used to help with field days on woodlots awarded through Forest Extension. There has been no Forest Extension for 15 years. So Woodlot Owner Groups plan field days now with a new group called INFOR that was created to catalog information from old DNR programs and put on information sessions.

I am surprised Time Warner in targeting the north with certification, and states to the south are not even being targeted at all apparently. Interesting, maybe they just buy northern pulp sourced paper? Shrug. Maybe we should tell Time Warner where they can stuff it.

[Magicman]

   We have a county Tree Farmer of the Year Award, which is awarded by our Lincoln County Forestry Association.  It's based on his/her conservation practices and betterment of their tree farm.  These are then submitted to a panel and an ultimate State Tree Farmer is awarded.

My hope is that one day to be recognized by our County Ass'n.  But if not, that effort is already recognized my me and my family.  

As I said earlier, this has absolutely nothing to do with "certification".

[Phorester]

Being designated as a Tree Farm, becoming a member of the ATF, started out as a reward program.  It recognized private and industrial forest landowners who did better forest management than other landowners.    There were no "benefits" - it was a reward.  

With the advent of the forest certification trend, it finally became a forest certification program too.  Any sawtimber, veneer, or pulpwood sold from a Tree Farm-certified property is considered certified wood.  A lot of 2nd and 3rd level wood product manufacturers are looking to have that designation on their products.  As I have said, another benefit of being a certified Tree Farm in my area is that you will be paid more for your pulpwood.

It used to be a informal system that was not applied properly in many places.  All you needed was 10 acres of woods and a forester to fill out the very simple one page form.  The required management plan was a few check boxes on the form and a few short blank lines where you could put things like "sawtimber sale - 50 Ac. 1990". The 5-year re-certification requirement often was simply the forester filling out about half of the same certification form that got you the designation in the first place and turning it in.  No required visit to the property, no required update of the management plan. Now standards are higher.  As Tree Farms come up for their required 5 year re-certification, they require an on-site visit, the property owner has to sign the form, a separate written forest management plan that addresses Best Management Practices, herbicide use, scenic value, and several other things has to be in place, you have to be actively following the management plan.  The older Tree Farms that don't meet these new requirements are de-certified.  Tree Farm Inspectors now have to go through a training program and become a certifed inspector.  Yes, all those can be abused and all those can be questioned as to their benefit.

So the benefits that I see of being a Tree Farm: it's a reward that recognizes that you are doing a good job managing your property; pride, as Magicman says; your pulpwood and sawtimber are now Certified Wood which might get you higher prices when you sell your trees; the magazine; networking with other Tree Farms at conventions, workshops, etc.  If you don't feel that some of these are real benefits, then they are not benefits for you. The only direct monetary benefit; a possible increase in the money you get from a timber sale. No tax breaks, nothing else.



Newly Re-certified Tree Farm in Virginia with new sign.

[woodtroll]

Tree Farmer was in place way before certification. It was started by Weyerhaeuser, to help the non industry land. In other words not mill ground but ground like Magicman has.
And yes, we should all take pride in our land. I take a great deal of pride in the advise I give to the landowners I help and the management I do on our ground.
I want forest owners to achieve the best their forest can do. I do not want to waste their time or money with something that may not benefit them.
I want to know it is worth while before I get put in a position to promote something (and if it costs, that mean I will have to sell it).

[Phorester]

WOODTROLL, as a service forester dealing with private landowners for over 30 years, here's some of the things I like about the Tree Farm System;

It's another way to promote good forest management.  Occasionally somebody will come into my office and want "one of those Tree Farm signs".  I then have the opportunity to talk to him about managing his woods.

The magazine has good info for a private forestland landowner on forestry, forest tax, wildlife, timber theft, and other property management issues.

With the advent of Forest Certification, the ATF is now recognized as one of those.  It is about the only one that doesn't put restrictions on a landowner for doing the more "controversial" practices like clearcutting, herbicide applications.  So it allows the landowner to use every tool in his forestry toolbox for proper management and still qualify as a Certified Forest.  

In my area, the landowner gets paid more for his pulpwood if he is a Tree Farmer.  It's considered Certified Wood.

No extra cost to become a certified Tree Farm.  It's a very simple and quick process. Some other certified systems can cost thousands of dollars and take a long time to put into place.

Costs:  Depends on how these are intrepeted; the cost of the land, which one person who came into my office wanting one of "those signs" and only had 5 acres; "you mean I gotta buy another 5 acres of land just to get a sign?"    To me this is not really a cost that applies to becoming a Tree Farm, but he thought it was.

A landowner needs a written forest management plan to qualify as a Tree Farm, and rarely are these free today. So if he doesn't already have one, he has to pay. But to me this is like buying the land; can it really be considered a cost of becoming a Tree Farmer, since you can have a management plan and not be a Tree Farmer.

The "cost" of having to do a few management practices to qualify.  But if commercial sales are done; pulpwood, sawtimber, this is of course income.
 

Just my 2 cents.  Some foresters like it, some don't.  

[SwampDonkey]

Even if the owner doesn't pay for the plan, I assume the government is doing them. So it's not free. Or, the consulting forester  is using it as a tool where there is a trade off. Maybe a plan is written for free, but the forester can offset his costs for an additional service. Then that leads to the idea of the fox sleeping with the chickens. But, then again he doesn't have to be the logger, so that could nullify that concern. I can see a another way, maybe the mill pays for it, but you sell some product to that mill on some type of arrangement. But, how long does the mill have to wait? I think in Nova Scotia some mills contribute some funds in a pot held by an association (it has been done here in NB also). It is based on volume of wood sales to their mill. Then maybe if you want the woodlot certified the association does it as a third party.