A couple of Michigan forest management videos!

[Mooseherder]

Because we are not as smart as you are.
Just for the record, the only reason I didn't set you straight on your comments in the Store Produce thread is out of respect for fellow members here.
You don't have any condescending knowledge I would want to learn from.

[Jeff]

I would appreciate it if you sent correspondence in a private message or e-mail if you feel I should be reminded of this.

Its been sent.

You are so blind to your condescending ways of expressing yourself that you don't have a clue how you come off here. You don't get personal remarks directly from members about this because they do have social skills and care about trying to be part of the group and not some one hovering above it.

[Jamie_C]

Here in NS most foresters and forest companies rely on operator selection during thinnings in both softwood and hardwood stands. They will sometimes mark specific trees they want left standing but they leave the majority of the decisions up to the operators in the seat of the machines. The ground looks totally different in the seat of harvester than it does while walking and unless you have spent a fair amount of time in the seat of a machine then trying to lay out the most effective routes for machines is a crap shoot at best. The company i run a harvester for has flatly refused to do some hardwood thinnings after the boss and i walked the ground, the forester figured it should be able to be thinned with no problems .. cradle hills, rocky ground, steep banks, side hills and poor road layout made keeping machines right side up almost impossible.

It takes both parties working together to get a good outcome, forestry is not a perfect science and anybody who thinks they practice it as such is grasping at straws.

[Texas Ranger]

"That more than likely no other forum member would post on your forum."

Geoff, there are any number of foresters, biologists, engineers, teachers, loggers, mill owners, and yes, even business managers, doctors, lawyers and Indian Chiefs on this board.  A pretty good mix of a cross section of society.

Talking down, or the appearance of talking down, to the board is not beneficial.

This board is more a family, and we do back talk occasionally, but a friendly way works better than arrogance.  You, as every one else, have a unique view or your world.  We like the different views, but don't get carried away.

Stick around, you have friends here, and can make a contribution.

[Geoff Kegerreis]

Thanks TR.

Jeff and others - seriously - I don't mean to be condescending to anyone.  Really.  You're probably right, Jeff I haven't a clue that I come across that way. 

By the way I appreciate the private message.

A little over 3 years ago I made a decision just to stop visiting this forum because I was getting hammered for what I thought was essentially no reason.  I had really forgotten I made that decision quite frankly.

That really has not happened on any other forestry discussion venue I have taken part of on the internet, and I have been discussing forestry on the internet on venues before this forum was active (in fact, I remember when it was just the timber buyers network - though I wasn't very active on here back then either - yet I was active even before the timber buyers network began in Y2K).

I think part of the difference with the other discussion venues compared to this one is that previously when I have discussed forestry with others it has always been mostly with foresters and other natural resource experts.  I don't mean to imply anything negative by that, it's just completely different than discussing topics with other folks who are in other subgroups of the broader part of of the Forestry community.

I guess if anything, this will give me something additional to think about.

Again, I don't mean to offend anyone.  Please don't take anything I state as a personal insult, because it is not meant nor intended that way at all. 

I guess that's all I have at the moment.

Regards,
Geoff

[SwampDonkey]

Here in NS most foresters and forest companies rely on operator selection during thinnings in both softwood and hardwood stands. They will sometimes mark specific trees they want left standing but they leave the majority of the decisions up to the operators in the seat of the machines. The ground looks totally different in the seat of harvester than it does while walking and unless you have spent a fair amount of time in the seat of a machine then trying to lay out the most effective routes for machines is a crap shoot at best. The company i run a harvester for has flatly refused to do some hardwood thinnings after the boss and i walked the ground, the forester figured it should be able to be thinned with no problems .. cradle hills, rocky ground, steep banks, side hills and poor road layout made keeping machines right side up almost impossible.

It takes both parties working together to get a good outcome, forestry is not a perfect science and anybody who thinks they practice it as such is grasping at straws.

Here in New Brunswick the harvest blocks will often have trails flagged, but no trees are usually paint marked. The reason can be two fold. One is the forest license has limited time and resources dedicated and the product being harvested is mostly pulp grade. The second reason is the terrain:boulder fields down through the woods, steep ground, and pit and mound topography and in the majority of cases nothing is left behind to stand anyway.

I have marked both trail and trees for selection on woodlots. I never had a problem with my layout, with one exception. I did one time have trouble with a horse crew that figured I had to build roads every 200 feet all over thin soiled mountains. Their forest technician had not planned the road layout at all, steep >20 % grades, skidding all down hill but hauling all up steep roads. It was meant for a skidder or forwarder not a horse. Their technician could grow Christmas trees but new little about logging layout. The client had used these guys on another lot and figured the semi-retired forest technician from the local ranger office would be a good man for the job. They had been basically lying to the client that they were doing selection in reality they were high grading with select cutting and clearcutting and the horse crew didn't like the new arrangements.  Too bad.   Even though under my watch I was also paying them an extra $10/cord for aspen/hardwood pulp. The longest distance skidded was 300 feet except one tiny corner of the lot 550 feet downhill to a landing. The horses could barely skid the sticks. 30+dbh sugar maple, red spruce. It had never been logged out there and other sections with smaller wood was fire origin second growth. It was a town watershed protection area for their water source. Their water is now pumped from wells into towers. Not because of the logging, they had converted years before. That place was basically turned up side down before I arrived and no road layout plan whatsover. There was management plan, but was never followed except for the work I did. A third guy came in with his crew and flattened the place and stole most of the big wood. I learned that from a guy in charge that left the company and the marketing board that saw the aftermath. I heard a lot of tales and many not true because the observer was only there to see the aftermath of some very fly by the seaters.

Some of us do know a little something out there.

[Jamie_C]

Swamp ... the best Foresters and Forest Engineers i know all realise that on the ground Forestry is not an exact science ... (if i would have stayed at UNB i would now have the BSc FE designation but the Hilltop Pub did me in .. )