1/4 sawing on a band mill?

[flibob]

It all sounds complicated to us newbies.  I think I am going to scrounge 6-8 foot tops from a neighbor and try these different methods to see how it goes.  The tops won't make much but the price is right(free) and they are easy to handle.

[SwampDonkey]

During WWII, the pilots practicing with dropping "the bomb" said they couldn't hit the right target. The captain says, "We never tried it before. They say, practice makes perfect. We'll practice it until we get it right".

[Just Me]

 The octagon that Bibbyman discribes is what I had imagined as a way to reference the rest of the work.  Then I was  kind of stuck on how one could saw the rest but the 45 degree wedge someone mentioned rang a bell. I was thinking some sacrificial 45 degree Vee's that you could just saw through that were clamped to the bed. Could be any junk wood really, say old OSB or other plywood. Just thinking. Anyway I don't know how stable the wood sawn has to be as far as clamps but I was also wondering with the plywood holding the 1/4's why you could then not cut two at a time with double 45 degree knotches on one sacrificial piece. The pieces could be made in two minutes, two at a time, with a tablesaw and chop box.Just thinking out loud.

It does seem a bit more difficult with a band mill, but as you all have shown, do'able. I love to see peoples different solutions to the same problem, makes the mind churn.

Thanks again, Larry

[Bibbyman]

By making the log into an octagon first, you end up with flat services on the four odd corners that you can clamp properly to get more quarter sawn boards from them.

[WDH]

I wanted to add some thoughts on this thread.  I had a white oak that was in serious decline, so I harvested it before the bugs got to it.  The bucked logs ranged from 15" to 17" on the small end, so these were not large by any means when it comes to quartersawing.

 



I slabbed the log to give the octagon shape, and sliced about 3 or four wide quartersawn boards right from the middle of the log. 

 







You can see the top third of the cant laying off to the side of the mill on the right.   I left the pith in the wide boards (12" - 15" wide) because I have found that leaving the pith in helps the board dry straight.  It can be sliced out when the board is planed down from the rough for use.  The resulting quartersawn boards from the top and bottom third were very nice, but only 5 1/2" to 6" wide. 

 



I found that trying to cut perfect quartersawn boards from the the top and bottom wedges from the top and botton third of the cant was marginal.  The boards are really too narrow to be of much appeal as most woodworkers do not want to buy boards that are only 3 1/2" wide, even if quartersawn.  So, I found that the best approach was to skip the octagoning step and make a four sided cant.  Then saw out the wide quartersawn boards from the middle.  Then flip up the top and bottom thirds and saw down through.  You only get one flatsawn board from the top and bottom of each third and the rest of the boards are riftsawn or quartersawn.  That is very good in white oak as woodworkers like rift sawn grain to make legs for furniture.  This pic shows some of the more rift sawn 8/4 that is still a very valuable cut. 

 



One bigger logs, it makes sense to go the octagon route and produce the maximum amount of quartersawn as you have the width in the cant to get boards that are at least 5" wide from the wedges.  Otherwise, I find that the modified quartersawing method is more practical and still yields over 80% rift and quartersawn grain.  What I call rift grain in the above picture actually technically qualifies as quartersawn, but the ray fleck is not as pronounced unless the growth rings are perfectly perpendicular to the long face of the board.  You get more of a "speckled" effect than long ribbons of ray fleck.  However, I like that "speckled" ray fleck look too.  I got some real nice boards from these logs.

[customsawyer]

Well on our next pecan job you can run the mill and show me.

[SwampDonkey]

Look at that octagon post he ruined. 

Some of them wood workers are a fussy bunch. All they need is to be faced with a crisis, like no more wide boards available. Then they will come around. Trouble is, that won't work down there for some time to come because you grow'm a lot bigger than they do up here. 

Nice saw job on them quarters. 

[ljmathias]

Nice tutorial, WDH- made me rethink how I saw nice logs like those.  Don't get many that smooth and straight, but next time... 

Lj

[WDH]

Well on our next pecan job you can run the mill and show me.

I will just supervise .  That white oak that you cut last year for us still takes the cake.  And then some.

[taylorsmissbeehaven]

I have  been 1/4 sawing some white oak for a customer for the last few days. It has turned out to be very pretty wood. I am learning about  this method of sawing and was wondering about "boxing the heart". What is the best use of this part of the tree. Is it a structurally useful piece of wood at or just waste. I'm wondering about some of the lager ones as posts. Thanks for any advice, Brian 

[beenthere]

brian

Isn't it difficult to 1/4 saw a log and not be sawing through the heart (pith center), such that there is no heart (pith) to box?

[taylorsmissbeehaven]

you are right I am cutting the heart up, had to look at what I was doing when I got home to wrap my head around it. This is new to me and I jumped the gun overthinking it this morning. Moving forward, is the heart deadwood that should be trimmed away or can it be a part of the boards I cut? I may be making this harder than it needs to be but you don't know what you don't know.Thanks for the patients, Brian

[beenthere]

Not a problem Brian.
The heart center is usually much lower quality, but sometimes that is just really the character that someone wants in their board, furniture, frame, or panelling. So no clear cut answer whether to trim away or not.
Keep thinking and doing. Those answers will start becoming your experience and add to your knowledge. Keep firing questions back as well as answers.

[Brad_S.]

Quarter sawing and through and through sawing requires you to saw through the heart, grade sawing allows you to box the heart.
Generally speaking, the area around the heart (2" or so on either side) will crack and/or severly check on hardwood boards. (Softwoods and species in the walnut family are an exception.) For that reason, you usually don't want to include it in your finished lumber. Boards from near the hear will often kink along that line as well. Additionally, lumber near the heart will have small knots from back when the tree was a sapling.
When I quarter saw, I edge away any lumber that contains heart. It is a matter of do it now or do it later.

[Norm]

That's a good point Brad, I've been lazy in the past and didn't do that. Really affects the quality of the board drying.

[SwampDonkey]

That's what I would do to. Most custom sawing I had done on hardwood they never really sawed for grade and the heart was not boxed so the lumber with the heart and pith was warped and cupped so that you could only use it for frame material and if thick enough tool handle wood after cutting out the heart and juvenile wood around it. A lot of these local guys don't even know much about grade sawing hardwood and saw out lumber with the least effort for the footage. It's hard not to really, because the wood is not big.

[WDH]

Some perfectly quartersawn boards from the center of the tree at the widest point in the log will dry with a pronounced side bend if you slice out the middle pith area and make two boards.  I leave the pith in as that balances both sides of the the good wood on either side while drying.  Sure, it splits and cracks in the middle, but the wood on either side is the best in the whole log.  I agree it is prettier too to remove the pith on those center cut boards, making them more appealing.  If they dry straight, that is great.  If they dry like an elongated "C", then that makes them very unappealing and harder to sell.  When I sell a wide quartersawn board with the pith still in the middle of the board, I measure the good wood width on either side, add them together, and charge the customer for that width.  That leaves the pith section as just a drying aid and a carrier for the two good halves of the board.  Of course if you are not cutting the wood to sell and are using it for yourself, then it doesn't matter much. 

If you have a nice straight, flat board with knots and a clear board with a little bow, cup, or warp, some people will choose the flat, straight board because it looks better.  To an experienced woodworker, they see the project in the boards and it is not as big an issue.  As I cut a lot of wood to sell, the boards need to look good  . 

[Just Me]

When we sawed up my ash trees a bit ago we sawed around the heart and used that for skids to set stacks on. It was no good for my purposes.