-30 F for

[trev]

tomorrow  and tomorrow night. I have everything ready ie propane blow torch, 5' of flex pipe, generator and 2 sets of booster cables, oh ya and two cans of ether, to get 2 cranes and carriers started up, they stay in the woods. I will eat breakfast then head out. When I get them running they will stay running until midnight when I start loading.
Wish me luck.

[Autocar]

Trev your the man at -30  but becareful using all that ether 

[JDeere]

Where are you located? We are logging where the mountains of Western Maine and the Great North Woods of New Hampshire meet and we expect the same tomorrow and Monday.

[lumberjack48]

  I had a propane circulating heater on my S8, every night I'd  hook it up, light it, tarp the front of the skidder so the wind wouldn't blow it out.
  It didn't make any difference how cold it got -30 or -50, I'd pull on the job, reach under the tarp and push the starter button.
I got so sick of the spit swappers, antifreeze on your gloves, i had a ball stick and spray antifreeze all over many times, man that sounds like fun.
  You have to keep things clean, i used mine 16 yrs never had a fire issue, it took the fight out of it.
  
In Nov. we used to pray for this kind of weather, so we could get in the big Spruce & Cedar swamps early.

[tyb525]

And I thought it was cold loading logs on my trailer at -5 yesterday morning

[Ironwood]

Slept outside in -20 in the Adirondacks once, exhale and your breath vapor crystallizes and falls back in your face as ice, REAL adventure. Was reasonably warm but dont want to do that too often. Little Subaru was not too interesting in starting, had to hike out to the end of the raod and flag down a guy w/ a BIG truck to drive the 2 miles back the ski trail/ road to give a jump (two feet of fresh snow to boot), never a dull moment and real survival up north.

 Ironwood

[CX3]

We are not prepared for -30 temps around here.  If it got that cold, everything would shut down.  Including me.  Good luck. 

[PAFaller]

JDeere, whats the nearest town to where you are working in northern NH. I finally took the time to drive all over that area when I was up there this summer to be the best man in my buddies wedding. His in-laws are mostly from Milan, but some hail from Errol, Colebrook, Lancaster etc. They also have small camp on Lake Umbagog. Was gorgeous in August, but I'm betting its some cold now. I took some pictures of moose while I was up there just to show friends I have here in PA what they look like. Still can't really comprehend the size compared to a whitetail until you actually see one, especially if its in the headlights!!

[JDeere]

PAFaller,  The nearest NH town to where we are working is Wentworths Location. It is about 15 miles north of Errol on the Maine state line. The parcel we are on is 27,000 acres and is a grant. Who is your buddy? We have 2 skidders on the job from Milan and I know lots of people in Colebrook, Milan and Lancaster. As for the moose, I wish we could ship them all south. I don't mind seeing them in the headlights but I hate it when they are on the hood. A lot of the trucks up here run moose bumpers. One of the haulers in our yard yesterday said he has hit 3 over the past 2 years. Umbagog is a beautiful lake and there are not many camps on it considering how large a lake it is. The govt. is buying up all the land they can on and around it.

[SPIKER]

Watching the news last night they said -48 someplace on the Montana Canadian border      I had seen temps around there once or twice myself but been a while.   Last real cold one was back in 88 or 89 when I changed the rad fluid & set it for -50 or better and froze the rad up going to work a few days later.   car overheated and boiled out anti-freeze that froze into a little green slush volcano under the car.   Luckly I was out front of a gas station & ran inside to get a extra gallon for the car & popped the cap & poured in straight antifreeze to make up the difference the old mercury fired back up and I managed to make it rest of the way to work.  that day you could take a hot cup of coffee (styro foam cup type) set it out in the wind/weather on the post outside our shop door and it would freeze solid in less than 5 min.  burrr  I was in Wichita KS McConnell AFB  was a fun place to work if you could get out of the wind.  (like 12 feet down inside  enclosed bunker) would get you out of the wind on the average windy day.

I worked Hydraulics and every thing leaked worse at low temps so it was  abusy day.   I had to replace a filter in wing of  a KC135 oval port hole that I could get into waste deep without my coat on.   and yes it was only way yo get into there was to remove the coat with those winds & temps it is wonder I didnt get frost bite. :( 
Mark

Mark

[PAFaller]

JDeere, PM sent

[tjdub]

tomorrow  and tomorrow night. I have everything ready ie propane blow torch, 5' of flex pipe, generator and 2 sets of booster cables, oh ya and two cans of ether, to get 2 cranes and carriers started up, they stay in the woods. I will eat breakfast then head out. When I get them running they will stay running until midnight when I start loading.
Wish me luck.

I hope you got them all running trev.

I started out this morning with a similar plan.  I had the generator, battery charger, and flex duct in my pickup and started heading for my dozer which is out in the woods pulling oak tops for firewood.  I got stuck in a snow drift about 1/2 mile from it.  I got out with a shovel after about 40 minutes, then got stuck again not much further down the road.  There was no way I was going to hump that generator down the road that far, so I decided to just walk out there and try go get it going on ether.  The batteries just didn't have the juice, so I walk back to find my dad stuck in a snow drift about 100ft past where my truck was stuck.  I had to walk another mile to get my tractor.  I get back with the tractor and pull both trucks out.  My dad says "screw this", and he heads home.  I load the generator and battery charger into the tractor and bust a trail to the dozer.  After about 30 minutes of the generator on the batteries and the flex pipe from the tractor muffler to the dozer.  I finally got that old dog running and head back with it to clear the snow drifts off the road.  I get about halfway back to where we were getting stuck and the fuel filters jell up and it wouldn't run much past idle.  I park it off the road and walk back for the tractor, I hopped on and headed home.

Four hours of hard work and lots of fuel burned with nothing to show for it but some dandy icicles on my face.  Some days it just doesn't pay to battle sub-zero weather!

[Just Me]

Slept outside in -20 in the Adirondacks once, exhale and your breath vapor crystallizes and falls back in your face as ice, REAL adventure. Was reasonably warm but dont want to do that too often. Little Subaru was not too interesting in starting, had to hike out to the end of the raod and flag down a guy w/ a BIG truck to drive the 2 miles back the ski trail/ road to give a jump (two feet of fresh snow to boot), never a dull moment and real survival up north.

 Ironwood

Used to sleep in the back of my truck when I worked for Western Geophysical to save the perdiem. Had a little aluminum topper on the truck and a board bench to sleep on. [Remember those days?] We moved from Lubock Tx. to Portales NM and I did my usual, crawled in the back and went to sleep. Woke up cold, wind coming through the crack between the box and camper was like a knife. Had a new sleeping bag, very expensive, good for thirty below , and I was cussing those people out all night long as I shivvered my butt off.

 When I got up in the morning I found out it was -50. Being from up north the thought never entered my mind that I would be so cold so close to Mexico. Diesel was frozen in the tank, had to get tank heaters.

 Thing was by 11 AM it was 70 degrees, but by about 4 PM you had better be finding some jackets and such. Portales is up around 8OOO feet, but looks flat, so the thought just never crossed my mind. I slept in a motel for the rest of that job.

I've cut off four fingers and had three sown back on, so these days me and the cold are not one.

[northwoods1]

I like reading these stories

It has warmed up to -19.8 f at the moment.

So cold my internet is about frozen up I don't know why but when it gets this cold my connection is sloowwww or non - existent .

I got pretty good at figuring out how to get the engines running on the equipment , but how do you warm up the rest of the machine? You can't! Gear oil is not even liquid at these temps it is solid and hard. A hydrostatic machine... forget it. I can't hardly rationalize the additional problems and wear and tear on the equipment any more. There were days when a I had no choice , but it is just so much simpler to stay inside and find something else that needs to be done. Like working in the shop , anything.

Like justme says about his fingers , I have never had any cut off but I can imagine real well exactly what he is talking about. Every old injury you ever had particularly if you have frozen parts of your body before , that shows up real fast again when the temps drop!

Stay warm somehow

[Just Me]

Northwoods

 How close are you to Crandon? We don't race anymore but still go up there for the races. Saw some of your woodwork in another thread, impressive,wouldn't mind a cup of coffee with ya when I am up there.

[Ironwood]

Justme,

 I was in the back of my Subaru, and like you those temps make a vehical into a freezer. We slept there out of convienence, but a tent would be MUCH warmer. We were ice climbing outside of Lake Placid, and both are pretty serious folks about outdoor pursuits. But that day, it got to -5F, too cold to climb, ice is too brittle, and you "lose" your fingers and have to stop too often to warm them.  Here is a pic after a multi pitch climb, some things are more important than knocking off the pound of ice from your face (like being focused) This is my mentor and friend, Dennis.

 



Ironwood

[northwoods1]

Northwoods

 How close are you to Crandon? We don't race anymore but still go up there for the races. Saw some of your woodwork in another thread, impressive,wouldn't mind a cup of coffee with ya when I am up there.

About 40 minutes from Crandon to the east. I've been to the races up there a couple times. I was in to performance engines for a while, but mostly cars

I used to work at a chevy dealership as a mechanic, both auto and in the big truck shop, when I was a lot younger and before I started in the woods. I lived right in Green Bay. I was working on my car out in the drive one day and a neighbor walks over who I had never met, a young guy. He starts asking me questions and says do I have any extra carbs? I says what are you looking for? He says oh, about a 1050cfm holley would work. I'm thinking , yah right... what is he gonna do with that? So I asked him , he says oh, we race up in crandon. We need the holley to put on the engine when it is in the pits, they would swap that out and take off the the real carb they were running so no one else could see it. They were running predator variable venturi carbs which was a new thing at that time. Then he tells me all these other stories about the sponsorships they had and all these other unbelievable stories. I was very dubious. Said his name was "Flannery" . Well if you have raced up there you have probably heard the name... I can remember he was real proud of the fact that one time he had beaten Walker Evans

[northwoods1]

Justme,

 I was in the back of my Subaru, and like you those temps make a vehical into a freezer. We slept there out of convienence, but a tent would be MUCH warmer. We were ice climbing outside of Lake Placid, and both are pretty serious folks about outdoor pursuits. But that day, it got to -5F, too cold to climb, ice is too brittle, and you "lose" your fingers and have to stop too often to warm them.  Here is a pic after a multi pitch climb, some things are more important than knocking off the pound of ice from your face (like being focused) This is my mentor and friend, Dennis.

 

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Ironwood

Boy I know some guys that climb... what stories they can tell when they get going. A person has to be real calm cool and collected and a thinker under pressure to be able to do that stuff!

[Ironwood]

I have followed a few CRAZY routes, or should I say climbers.  Crappy/ thin ice, long runouts, marginal protection. Always good to reach a safe spot (trees or rock). Climbed a few after dark by headlamp, WAYYYY cool.

 Ironwood   

[Just Me]

Northwoods

 I come into Crandon from the east. Got caught in a storm once riding my GSXR up there and spent a couple of hours hiding in a bar about that far from Crandon.

 Jack and Jamie went on to beat Walker many many time before they fell into bad fortune, self inflicted. Jack lost everthing to the IRS, and Jamie had a go with a 16 year old that made it so no sponsor would touch him. They were bad to the bone though. Jack died a couple of years ago.

Walker was always everyones goal. He helped us set up our Dodge after he switched to Chevys as we were the only Dodge in the circuit at that time. We used his old number on our truck,820, and won the sportsman stock championship in 2000.

Switched to Supertruck, took 2nd place to our buddy Keith Steele in 2009. Ironically we put Keiths truck together in our shop here in Indian River, but his chassis was far better than ours, and he can drive. My brother wrecked his Supertruck in an 80 mph mid air crash in front of the barn, and although the truck went back together and he finished the season in second, he was never the same. Lost the drive, or all of a sudden knew what fear is, but the truck was sold either way. Good thing, it costs well over 100K to run one of those a year.

Ironwood

Ice climbing? And they say I am crazy.........

[Bobus2003]

tomorrow  and tomorrow night. I have everything ready ie propane blow torch, 5' of flex pipe, generator and 2 sets of booster cables, oh ya and two cans of ether, to get 2 cranes and carriers started up, they stay in the woods. I will eat breakfast then head out. When I get them running they will stay running until midnight when I start loading.
Wish me luck.

I hope you got them all running trev.

I started out this morning with a similar plan.  I had the generator, battery charger, and flex duct in my pickup and started heading for my dozer which is out in the woods pulling oak tops for firewood.  I got stuck in a snow drift about 1/2 mile from it.  I got out with a shovel after about 40 minutes, then got stuck again not much further down the road.  There was no way I was going to hump that generator down the road that far, so I decided to just walk out there and try go get it going on ether.  The batteries just didn't have the juice, so I walk back to find my dad stuck in a snow drift about 100ft past where my truck was stuck.  I had to walk another mile to get my tractor.  I get back with the tractor and pull both trucks out.  My dad says "screw this", and he heads home.  I load the generator and battery charger into the tractor and bust a trail to the dozer.  After about 30 minutes of the generator on the batteries and the flex pipe from the tractor muffler to the dozer.  I finally got that old dog running and head back with it to clear the snow drifts off the road.  I get about halfway back to where we were getting stuck and the fuel filters jell up and it wouldn't run much past idle.  I park it off the road and walk back for the tractor, I hopped on and headed home.

Four hours of hard work and lots of fuel burned with nothing to show for it but some dandy icicles on my face.  Some days it just doesn't pay to battle sub-zero weather!

When its cold like that you have to ask.. Is it worth the Hell and abuse your putting the machine through?

[lumberjack48]

Your equipment was to be ready for cold weather, all the right fluids for -50, fuel blended right with de gel in it, real good or new batteries, a Hot box, propane heater or spit swappers. [4x4 pickup with plow]

I had x amount of wood to get out by march, i could not wait for warm weather, never lost a day because of cold or snowy days, [ bad wind, yes] you only have so many days in the bog.

[fuzzybear]

we just got done with a week and a half of -40 temps.  Not to bad working in it if you keep moving and have a fire. 
  The worst I've ever worked at was -58. It was not fun.  Coldest I've ever seen was -72. but that was way back in the bush in a small river valley. 

Longest was 2 winters ago when it dropped to -50 and stayed for a little over 1 1/2 months.  Then it warmed up to -30 and dumped 2' of snow on us.    The joys of hibernating in the great white north.   
   Summer is almost here.  the sun is days away from cresting the mountain, then I will get direct sun light for almost 20 min. then I  gain 7 min each day until it never sets in june.
Summers are a good trade off for dealing with the winter.  but of course I've got to love winter to live here.

[lumberjack48]

The coldest day i worked -52, coldest wind chill -57, we always had a fire on the landing. No cabs on the skidders, i made a windshield out of Plexiglas, something to break the wind, worked good, then i put carpet on the floor boards   to get your feet off the bear steel.

[indiaxman1]

Out with two other cutters working on oak/hickory tops today...was +20..which seems downright balmy compared to some prior posts....can't seem to keep feet warm....double wool socks/boots....glad to haul out of there afternoon

[lumberjack48]

indixman1 i showed my wife what you posted, she said your not working hard enough.

This will happen, your feet got sweaty and once they get cold you have to take your boots off to get'em warm again or do what i did, i would run down the road about 1/4 mile and back, worked for me, the crew thought i was crazy.

[JDeere]

indiaxman1,  I have the same problem keeping my feet warm because I wear the Viking caulked boots, safe but not the warmest boots to work in. Even with wool sox and a liner my feet would get cold. My solution is to use a package of toe warmers each day. They are a small pad that stick to your sox and produce heat via a chemical reaction. They generally will last me all day and cost about $1.50. I figure that is a small price for warm feet.

[trev]

Was out there most of the day 2 cranes and one carrier started but my carrier with a 550 cat refused. Propane torch with flexpipe on the oilpan 2 sets of booster cables,one from the crane and one from the pickup and generator plugged to the block heater, still 4 hrs to start this pig. this thing has new batteries,starter,  cables and synthetic oil to boot.
 It would be good to stay home in the cold but up here we only have 8 months to work and only 3 of these are real good money making months and they are now.
 I work in the tip of northern maine 1 mile from the Quebec border town of Estcourt Station. I am from a small town not far from there called Allagash Me.

[trev]

Calling for -25 to -35 tonight with wind chills to a -55 tonight. I'm glad everything is running, or so it was when I left there at 5:00 pm.

[beenthere]

trev
So you left them running?

[trev]

Oh ya they are still running.

[lumberjack48]

trev if that 550 turned over good it must be lack of fuel, wich i'm sure you know.

I had a 353 do this to me , it had fuel, the temp gauge showed 160, it turned over like summer time.  I fought this skidder 2 days,just puff black smoke, call the best Detroit men i new, nobody had a answer.
The third night i got a phone call at 2 AM, from John Pane the best Detroit man i know, he said all of a sudden it came to him what was wrong, its flooded.
He told me to hold the shut off all the way out on till white smoke started coming out, then push the shut off in real slow, it popped right off,

[HolmenTree]

In -30 or colder keep your skidder covered overnight with a army surplus parachute. Back in the day when I was on cut and skid here in northern Manitoba we found those thin nylon parachutes worked amazing to keep the chill off the machine. Of course we also had "hockey stick" propane heaters to keep the engines warm and I think the parachute helped trap some of that heat also.

Willard.

[tjdub]

When its cold like that you have to ask.. Is it worth the Hell and abuse your putting the machine through?

I was more asking if it was worth the Hell and abuse I was putting myself through that day.  I don't think the bulldozer suffered nearly as much as I did.

[barbender]

John Payne is northern Minnesota's master of the Detroit diesel. I didn't realize you could flood one, I'll have to remember that.

[northwoods1]

The sweaty feet thing can make it hard to keep them warm , I find if you keep the felt liners washed once in a while to get the perspiration out and also have clean dry wool socks every day that really helps. I also got these felt insoles that are about 3/4" thick that will fit in the bottom the felt liner and that really helps to absorb moisture you don't need a really heavy pair of socks if the rest of the arrangement is nice and clean. Another thing that really works is cut out some newspaper and put that in to the bottom of your boot it will absorb a lot of moisture just try it and you will see how well that works, every day just throw it away. Boot dryers are nice

I quit trying to run the equipment when it is brutally cold , because after a while of doing it I found that it was a money losing proposition. It is a lot of wear and tear on the equipment. And the brutally cold temps don't seem to stick around for that long... like for example I had almost -20 yesterday , but right now , +8 f .... 
It would not have made any sense to go out yesterday and put the wear and tear on the equipment and myself. Now I can go out this morning and enjoy the balmy weather

Certain operations have no choice you absolutely need to keep things moving , make hay when the sun is shining so to speak.

[Norm]

Why do you do this, because the payments and bills need paid no matter what the temp is. Sure made me quit whining about the -7F I did chores in yesterday.

[grassfed]

Well we hit an honest -30F this am but Barton Vt about 10 miles south of us and 500-600 ft lower than us hit -46F. The low spots get killed when we get these cold clear nights.

[lumberjack48]

 My wife couldn't keep her feet warm running skidder, with Sorel  boots with felt liners. So she tried new Sorel's with the Thinsulate liners, never had a problem after that.
 Like northwoods1 said everything was to be dry, and if you do it the Jipo way you don't put your work boots on, on till you get to the job site.
 On the way to work do not put your heater on floor, it blows right on your feet.
 I cut a lot of newspaper out, i think it worked 100% better than the felt insole, i put about 3/8 " thick newspaper, and changed it every night, and hung my boots and liners, up side down over a stove or put them up side down over a heat vent.
 Clean dry socks every day, i put a thin nylon like dress sock, with i pair of 100% wool sock on.
 If your boots fit to tight your in trouble, your foot should move back in forth a little, if you can't wiggle your toes there to tight. 

[Mark K]

Well it was -24 here this morning. I went out and started my cummin's at 5:30 to go to the woods. She started, walked in the house and she froze up. I've been running power-service additive and cut with kerosene. Fuel lines are froze, think I got some bad fuel because my old F350 is jelled to. Got heaters on my Dodge warming tank and lines up now. Pulled the filter and dumped 911 in. Not looking to good to get to the woods today.

[HolmenTree]

 Not trying to put a bee in anyones bonnet, but from all the trouble you loggers are having south of the line I now can see why 90% of Canadian produced softwood lumber goes to the US.

Willard

[Mark K]

The first real cold snap(-20 or more) of year always tells how good fuel is. I think I just got a bad tank of fuel. Just got the cummin's going, moved everything over to my f350 to heat that up. hopefully skidder won't be gelled. Better move to Canada, things must not gel up up there  .

[lumberjack48]

You have to be care full where you buy your fuel, the first thing i ask, is how is the fuel is blended, 40/60, 50/50 or what.
Get some De-Gel, like Gunk 7532 or any good product for diesel fuel, i always had a few gts on hand just in case.
Always take all preconditions when running diesel in cold weather and you won't have any problems.

[Mark K]

I must have had water in my tank. Both trucks had frozen fuel filters. Just the way it goes sometimes. At least my wet holes ought to be frozen up good tomorrow. I opened them up yesterday. I got both of them running out there now. This is the first time in about three years I've gelled up. I have a case of Power service and 911 in the shop just in case. Glad I did, would of been a cold ride to town with my Farmall M. That was my means of transportation to get to the barn to feed my beefer's this morning.

[lumberjack48]

I got so I'd pull the plug on my fuel tanks in the fall just to make sure. But with all the preconditions i still ran in to problems once in awhile, diesel fuel can be on predicable. 

[sandhills]

Have you guys ever tried Howes treatment?  We run it year around in our farm equipment, but add it a little heavier in the winter and have not had any problems with jelling #2 as long as the filters are good (they get changed just before winter) but we also don't have the cold as bad, usually 0 to negative teens is about it.  I've tried 911 before and can't say it did any good, lumberjack 48 is right, if you're ready for it, the cold shouldn't bother much.  I talked to a trucker that used to haul up into northern Canada during the winter and he claimed they would run as high as a 50/50 blend of #1 and gas in the trucks, sounded kind of scary to me.

[lumberjack48]

I've heard that to, but like sandhills said, sounds scary to me, a guy should mix up a batch and see what it looks like, may be they new something that we don't.

[fuzzybear]

jet fuel is basicly what we run here for equipment in the winter.  It's called -50 fuel or Jet A at -50 it still  flows like gasoline, but you will burn about 10% more of it in this form.  It is a refined version on diesel.
  If I tried to run the fuel they sell in the south here it would be ok until about November. After that it would be a ball of jelly.   Every winter we get truckers from down south that bring the load of a lifetime here to the north.
   The problem is that they are not prepared.  Southern trucks will not survive here. One story in point happened 3 winters ago. We had a snap where the temp dropped to -58 for 6 days straight. There were 8 truck loads of spf pads for a winter road project at Eagle Plains, wich is just north of the Arctic Circle.  These boys were doomed from the begining.
   Now most of you that drive or have ever driven a truck can relate.  There first mistake was that when they arived at the start of the Dempster Highway into the Arctic, they had been traveling at around 80-90 kmh and pulled into the truck stop without properly cooling down their tires. The next morning half were frozen to the ground.  One driver in a desperate try to unstick his truck managed to break both axels. The 2nd driver managed to get free leaving 6 tire caps sticking to the ground. all of the other trailers were frozen by their brakes.  so they got a little smart and decided to pull the pin and just try to get the rig unstuck. Well plastic gladhands are NEVER seen on a northern truck, because they shatter at -50.
   By the time I had arived they had 1 truck unstuck. And they had to have the loads 375 km that day. Now the Dempster Highway is every much and more dangerous a road than what you see these driver on tv driving.  so 375 km in the winter is an all day affair.  by the time the day was over in cost the poor company almost $10000 for my services getting their trucks unstuck from the parking lot of a plowed truck stop. 3 trucks went out on wreckers almost 600km to the nearest dealership. I've never seen any of them back since.
   Mother nature will chew you up and spit you out without any mercy if you are not prepared.

[g_man]

We had -26 this morning. Since I'm a hobby logger, with plenty of cold weather experiences behind me, and lucky enough to be able to, I stayed in today. The only wood I handled was the wood I shoved up the chimney. Seems like a cord.

[nhlogga]

Skidder started with a couple sniffs. Slasher started with a couple sniffs and jumper cables. Chipper started with a sniff. Blew about 2 wheelbarrows of chips, change filters. Chipped another 15 min or so, changed filters again then finished the load. Feller buncher plain out said sscrew you it's too cold. Called it a day about 10am. Fuel was milky looking in everything even in the L-tank in the truck. Heck fuel even gelled in the torpedo heater. Tomorrow will be a better day. IIt's days like this I am glad I just an employee.

[lumberjack48]

nhlogga your fuel is way to heavy, to bad to louse a days work because wrong fuel mixture, not your fault, your employers fault, i would bring some number ! fuel and de-gel in the morning.   

[nhlogga]

nhlogga your fuel is way to heavy, to bad to louse a days work because wrong fuel mixture, not your fault, your employers fault, i would bring some number ! fuel and de-gel in the morning.   

That's the plan. When I ran my old Clark I used only on road fuel and used the quart bottles that say to mix with 100gal and put the whole bottle in my 50gal L tank. I also fueled my skidder up at the end of the day every day with no execptions and never had a problem. I also used  "spit swappers" and rarely ever used either. I hate using that stuff. Day's like today I would have stayed home. But you know the saying  "the boss is always right".

[trev]

Norm, always bills to pay but the way things work here is land owners pay us good money to get the product to the mills in a timely fasion and before breakup. If this does not happen while we are the contractors next season another contractor will have the chance to try.

[northwoods1]

I listen to all these stories and laugh.

the most important thing I learned over the years is don't plan on production when it is deathly cold , as in -20 or more. It is crazy to work at those temps in regions where that is the extreme.

Now if all you have to do is get your machine running and turn the heater on , well that might be a workable situation.

But falling timber , or cutting on the ground , that is dangerous work when the conditions are perfect.

Stay home and prepare for the temps to moderate.

Got to pay the bills you say? Well I can remember going out and snapping an axle on the 540 D when it was cold , and that is why it happened. Even steel has different characteristics in those temps. I can remember going out and pulling up a load behind the 540 , and having it bump in to the fender and big piece of the fender just broke right off! Not on the weld or a bend , just broke right out where the tree hit it! How long does a guy have to work to pay the bills when steel starts snapping when you just going about normal business? Work all day and freeze you DAN G. off and come home deeper in debt then when you left? That is not a good feeling.

There is no  way to prepare fully for those kinds of conditions.

Most equipment , and I mean everything , skidders , chainsaws, and even people ... are not designed to work in those conditions.

The worst I ever hurt myself was falling timber in those conditions . A February job, so cold...I was skidding across a blueberry bog. Had to get them loads out. Didn't feel so good when a tree didn't behave normally as I was falling it , and particularly after it landed on me after the butt flew up in the air because the very small sapling that was in the way did not bend over like normal but stood there and made a tree length teeter totter. I had an epiphany that day. It was this: some days a guy should just ... stay home. Get killed for a piece of wood.. no thanks.

There is no point in going out and breaking equipment , and like I said , you can not fully prepare for the way equipment will behave in extreme conditions like that. Freaky things happen. Your not paying the bills when your breaking things. And working on the ground falling timber in particular. To dangerous!

You might need to try it ... just to prove your a real man but when you do that a time or too, and figure out you are one. Then it isn't that important to push yourself like that. I could write a list a mile long of all the mishaps and breakdowns that have occurred when working in the extreme cold. Now I think back and try to learn from all that. It ain't worth it sometimes

But that is just me...

[JDeere]

Not trying to put a bee in anyones bonnet, but from all the trouble you loggers are having south of the line I now can see why 90% of Canadian produced softwood lumber goes to the US.

Willard

HolmenTree,   I have read your post 3 times and laughed out loud each time. Thats just funny

[Tom_Averwater]

At what temperature do you guys change from #2 to # 1 diesel?

[snowstorm]

i maine we just let em run all nite. since most fuel up here is irving i was told they take the wax out of it. that takes care of the problem. yrs ago used to cut it 50%kero

[HolmenTree]

Not trying to put a bee in anyones bonnet, but from all the trouble you loggers are having south of the line I now can see why 90% of Canadian produced softwood lumber goes to the US.

Willard

HolmenTree,   I have read your post 3 times and laughed out loud each time. Thats just funny

JDeere I too have been laughing reading this thread. I see your next door to Quebec and maybe you can relate to me. Alot of those French Canadians from Quebec have logged all over and I have learned many a logging trick working alongside those guys. When its 20 below or colder thats the best conditions for high production in piecework softwood logging as the boys from  Quebec are used to. When it turns colder then -40 below then its time to shut er down for a while ,save a planetary or walking beam.
But to miss out on some good going when its only -20-30  below is a real loss especially when wet areas etc are froze solid and access to good stands is available and the time you save on limbing and skidding on hard pack snow.
 In our operations we built ice roads across lakes and logged beautiful timber on islands and swampy areas.Roads were good for B train hauling  almost 6 mths of the year.

Our forestry company operated Tanguay roadside slashers [built in Quebec] for years, excellent machine. Tanguay still makes excellent machines, check out their website and see the worlds largest grapple skidder they build. www.tanguay.cc

Willard.

[Reddog]

At what temperature do you guys change from #2 to # 1 diesel?

Here the suppliers start blending in Nov for -35F rating. So the only time I run straight #1 is if I head into and area where it may be below -30F. You lose a fair amount of power running #1, a lot less BTU's per gallon. You will consume 10-15% more fuel than on #2.

[barbender]

Another thing to watch for, in MN at least, is whether your fuel has any bio-diesel blended into it. I'm normally all for some bio, but not in the winter. It doesn't behave very well in the cold. In fact, the state had mandated that all on road diesel had to have 5% (I think) bio diesel blend, this fall they suspended part of that so that #1 sold in the winter doesn't have to run any. I believe that was mostly due to loggers throwing a fit, they knew all their trucks would be gelled up. When the state first mandated the bio diesel several years back, I think about half the trucks in the state were parked on the shoulder gelled up of the road on the first cold day of the winter It was a bit of a mess.

[nhlogga]

Another thing to watch for, in MN at least, is whether your fuel has any bio-diesel blended into it. I'm normally all for some bio, but not in the winter. It doesn't behave very well in the cold. In fact, the state had mandated that all on road diesel had to have 5% (I think) bio diesel blend, this fall they suspended part of that so that #1 sold in the winter doesn't have to run any. I believe that was mostly due to loggers throwing a fit, they knew all their trucks would be gelled up. When the state first mandated the bio diesel several years back, I think about half the trucks in the state were parked on the shoulder gelled up of the road on the first cold day of the winter It was a bit of a mess.

Bio+Cold weather = Bad headaches. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

[tjdub]

At what temperature do you guys change from #2 to # 1 diesel?

I think that the general rule of thumb is that #2 fuel will gel at around -10F (or even a whole lot warmer if your fuel filter is adding resistance from ice or dirt).  Once you get colder that -10F, you need to blend some #1 into the #2.  In my area, the fuel distributor will usually recommend a 70/30 mix of #2/#1 in the winter which I think is targeted at the -30F range?  Fuel additives like Powerservice say right on the bottle that they can be used in straight #2 fuel to achieve the same properties, but I'm not convinced.

One of my tractors has a fuel filter with the element completely visible through the glass.  This is a nice feature to have when you're trying to diagnose your filter and fuel condition in cold temps.  You can see it struggling when it's pulling air bubbles through the injection pump side of the filter element.  One time at around -20F that tractor started to gel up.  I saw this happening and couldn't figure out why because the fuel should have been fine and the filter was pretty new and looked clean.  I popped on a new filter and all was good (except my fingers).   I would have just blamed the fuel if it had a canister filter.

Anyway, around here it doesn't get cold enough that we have to burn straight #1 fuel.  There's nothing wrong with doing this except it hurts your wallet and limits your power.  #1 fuel has a lot less energy per volume so you burn a lot more of it than #2 or a #2/#1 blend.  Plus you have less power from your engine.  But hey, you still have a lot more power than an engine that won't run past idle!   Loading your blend up with #1 can be good insurance (especially this year).

[HolmenTree]

I recommend anyone who have bulk fuel on hand save it for the warmer months and buy your fuel fresh where the fleet trucking companies buy their fuel.
I get my fuel from a Petro Canada cardlock station were all the truckers fuel up and I'm always guarenteed its the right fuel for the season. I remember 30 yrs ago problems we had with the transition of summer fuel to winter fuel up here in northern Canada when logging but I can't remember any problems since.

Willard.

[JDeere]

Fuel additives like Powerservice say right on the bottle that they can be used in straight #2 fuel to achieve the same properties, but I'm not convinced.

tjdub,  Up here where I live and work everybody uses Powerservice in addition to our fuel being treated by the distributor for -30*F. I learned the hard way a number of years back, use it religiously or you will gel up if you get a bad batch of fuel.