Nice Sticks

[northwoods1]

I don't know if we are confusing issues here or not, I am a little dense But, the point I was trying to make and I think Northwoods is too, is that if I put what will scale out as 5500' of Red Pine logs on a truck I'm going to be overweight. With a three axle trailer we can run approx. 94,000# in the summer and 102,500 in the winter if I remember right (I haven't hauled since last winter, I forget quick ) There is no way we can get 8000' on and be even close to legal weight any time of the year, with the scale you get at the local mills. I just brought 2 loads of red pine logs home because it was smaller wood, mostly 10" tops 10-18' lengths, and when I tallied up what I had using the Scribner C scale, I figured that I would have been way ahead cutting the stuff into 100" bolts and sending them to the potlatch stud mill. They weigh scale, and a roughly #100,000 load converts to 11 1/2 cords or so at $89 cord. $1000 give or take. I figured scribner would only get me about 2500', at $205 per mbf. $500 or so, unless I am figuring wrong. I don't think I am as one of this mills main suppliers is only sending them wood that is too big to make Potlatch's 17"max size. The lumber scales beat you up bad on anything under 14".

I have to say I am really envious of Ken out there I mean, a guy could make really great money with just a skidder and a chainsaw cutting loads like he pictured that scale out as they do, and the $400 per thousand... That is the kind of money a person should be making for doing that kind of work
Thanks for posting the pictures Ken. You have such a nice neat landing, nice wood, and your getting good money for it.
Barbender I think your figures are absoultey correct as are lumberjack 48s , over here it makes more sense to cut wood like that 8' long and sell it by the cord. That is what we have always been forced to do here there just is not a good market for pine logs. You would be lucky to get $200mbf here for that wood Ken is cutting and those loads  would scale out at a lot less wood. Like lumberjack48 and others have pointed out, the short stick scalers at the log mills are another factor. Here that is the norm rather than the exception, at least it you cut the stuff short and sell it by the cord you can eliminate that factor.
And like Ken said even if a person gets a fair scale you are not getting paid for the amount of bf being produced and delivered, not by a long shot! I always was aware of that, but never so much as after I got my own sawmill. I know for a fact I can saw 50% more wood out of some logs than what the log scale would indicate.
Lumberjack 48 , that is such a great pic of you with that new skidder in 1968 I bet you were the 1st in your neighborhood to have one of those!

[SwampDonkey]

The price is actually down on pine, not too long ago we were getting close to $600/mbf on the top grade.

[northwoods1]

The price is actually down on pine, not too long ago we were getting close to $600/mbf on the top grade.

The price seems to be down on pretty much everything here

Here where I live, this is pine country too. When it comes to nice w.& r. pine logs , we have lot of it here and of the highest quality.

[SwampDonkey]

That's the trouble, it ain't scarce enough.

[ga jones]

25 cents a foot around here for white pine 20 for hemlock.5800 bf on trailer puts you at 81000 plus pounds a little over weight...Its almost not worth my time.............

[lumberjack48]

Thank you Northwoods1, It was the second one, it was all new to the older loggers, they just couldn't get tracks out of there mind. I peeled pulp for a guy up at International Fall's one summer,[1966] he had a TJ , he took the time and showed me how to fell timber for it and work the landing, tricks to get wood out. I was used to cutting everything up in the woods and hand piling. [ strip cutting ]

Your right, everything under 14" should  be cut  100", it takes the hurt away a little bit.
I was logging Co. wood, and the Co. truck hauled the logs and bolts for me [ their rule ] the driver told me the scalier,  didn't even scale the small top logs, 10" to 8" top, i got the hint, the last logs always ended up 100" for some reason.
Than he told me on the bolts, the Co short stick every load about a cord, so he hauled my wood at night, [ scale shack closed ] the trucker scales the load, a gain of 1 to 2 cords a load. [ facts ]

Ken, I want to say you do real nice work!!!  my landings had to be neat and clean to.
Guys be care full and always take that extra step

[Ken]

(I have to say I am really envious of Ken out there  I mean, a guy could make really great money with just a skidder and a chainsaw cutting loads like he pictured that scale out as they do, and the $400 per thousand... That is the kind of money a person should be making for doing that kind of work )

As I mentioned very early on in this thread we don't often get the opportunity to cut timber like the pine shown in the pictures.  It does seem very odd that others who live in areas dominated by pine do not get a better price than $250/mfbm considering that our finished product ends up in many of the same retail outlets.   As SD mentioned when the American economy was in better shape we were getting considerably more for our SPF building materials. 

Thanks for mentioning the clean looking landing.  Our landing is in a gravel pit which makes it much easier considering the fact that we have had 6-8" of rain this month.  Anybody who has worked with a skidder knows that it is very hard to keep a landing looking neat especially if you rely on someone else to truck your wood.   We do however pride ourselves on doing quality work and that attitude has kept us in work when many others have had to pack it in due to the industry being in the dumper.   I am an optimist though and am patiently waiting for our American friends south of the border to begin building houses again so that our industry can recover. 

Hope everyone had a great Christmas season
Cheers
Ken

[barbender]

It is sad how little pine pays over here- I think it was only $305 mbf when things were good 5-6 years ago. I'll make a note, I've never even sold pine logs to these mills, all I've done is talked to them for prices. But it is a straight $205mbf right now, there is no #1 or #2 grade, only deducts for poor grade knots and what, that's the impression they gave me anyhow. With our extensive pine forests, there are only 2 mills in northern MN that buy it on a reliable commercial basis that I know of, other than the Potlatch lumber mill. Part of the problem is that the Chippewa National Forest really slumped in the amount of wood they were selling for quite awhile, and they have the majority of the large pine in my area. I don't think the mills have had a reliable supply. From what I hear, the Chippewa is putting up more wood these days, but I don't think that they have sales that are accessible to a hobby logger like me. I can't buy these 3000 cord monstrosities they put together. They have sales that are stretched through the woods for 5 miles bunched into one because there admin. costs are so high, I guess. It would take me and the Pettibone 20 years to cut all of that Back to the point though, it is a shame that all of our beautiful pine sells for really not much more than Aspen pulp. According to my handy Woodmizer log rule and lumber scale it would take about 45, 14"top x 16' long logs to make a 5000' load, which would pay you $1050.(Scribner decimal c) Once you get to 18" tops, things look better, than it only takes about 24 to make 5000'. I don't know what aspen is paying right now, but I would think it is in the area of $80-85 per cord. So a 10 cord load of aspen would pay $800 or so. It don't seem right that junky ol' aspen culverts should be worth nearly as much as majestic big pine, this is buggin me somethin fierce

[lumberjack48]

The Chippewa National Forest is my home ground, logged the area for 36 yrs. My farther and me  bid on these big sales until the big boys started biding the stumpage up. They bid it up higher then we got at the mill for it, how in the heck can you stay in business. I saw pine bids up to $300. + a thro, Aspen $50. a cord on the stump, and the same for hardwood , it was crazy. There had to be something going on under the table, my thoughts.

I had to go to work for Rajala Timber, one pine block i was on cost them $80,000.00 just to open it, this is 25 yrs ago.

[SwampDonkey]

Just 5 years ago before the big bust, some loggers paid as much as $2000/acre based on pulp specs. That included about any kind of tree on the lot. I've seen many lots around 50-60 acres go for $80,000-100,000 stumpage. You couldn't afford to buy a lot and manage it selectively, anybody buying cut the whole works. Loggers would pay more for the stumpage than you could offer for the land purchase, flatten it and move on. Some would get a cruise, most just walked the lot to see what kind of wood they had. Any softwood logs they could get was bonus, but some mills paid as much as $120/cord for aspen and hardwood pulp. Mature timber runs from 24-36 cord per acre on woodlots, mature cedar runs over 60 cord/acre.

[barbender]

I didn't realize you cut for the Rajala's, Lumberjack4. It's a small world

[lumberjack48]

Barbender, their like working for the company store, you'll never get head.

[SwampDonkey]

You sure they're not related to Jim Irving?

[Ed_K]

here's what took 4 days with the tractor.
 



landini 4x4 with tajfun winch.

 

[barbender]

Lumberjack4, that's pretty common knowledge around here I live right across the road from the legendary Dean R, he moved up 46 here about 15 years ago, he's been buying all the property around here ever since Oh- btw Ed, nice pile of wood there

[northwoods1]

here's what took 4 days with the tractor.
 

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

landini 4x4 with tajfun winch.
I'm giving up tried to put second pict here 8x I'll try later .

Nice piles your truckers must love you

[Ed_K]

My Trucker has 5 guys he trucks for,he does like mine best .
Thanks,