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Author Topic: white pine stumpage value  (Read 6635 times)

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Offline panman

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white pine stumpage value
« on: December 10, 2010, 06:54:30 pm »
A small town has 10-15, 24"-30" in diameter at the base, white pine trees, they want to sell.
They are standing, they are hazard trees.
If I did the job, I'd have to fell the trees, then saw into lumber.
Just wondering what the going rate would be for white pine stumpage?
I realize I have a leg up on this one, because they need to remove the trees, but they still want something out of the deal.
Thought I'd see what you guys thought?
Thanks
Jim

Offline ladylake

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2010, 07:04:49 pm »
 $100 a thousand would be plenty.   Steve
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Offline Jasperfield

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2010, 07:10:42 pm »
I don't know whether I would pay them anything.

Remind them that the "clean-up" phase of the work is the major portion of the job, and that you will also be loading and removing their problem trees.

Offline pnyberg

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2010, 07:26:51 pm »
Things have different prices in different areas, but when I had some oak trees taken down on my property about a year and a half ago, it cost me about $500 a tree.  That was just to put the wood on the ground.  Helpers dragged branches only far enough to be out of the way.  That was the extent of the 'clean up'. 

How much are they willing to pay you?

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Offline barbender

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2010, 07:40:20 pm »
Yep, they should be paying you. I'd take the wood for just putting the trees on the ground, and let them do the clean up. I just finished a job where I  took down about 200 red pine around a parking lot, they were around 12-14" dbh and not real tall, kind of bushy. Anyhow, I made the deal that I would remove the trees and all slash would be hauled off, and I got the wood in return. By the time I was done I wished I had charged them $1000 on top of taking the wood, it was very time consuming and generated WAY more slash than I was anticipating because the trees were so bushy. I was thinking around 3 loads, it ended up being 13-14 loads, luckily I was close to a biomass facility and they hauled it all for $200. It could have cost me $800, thaty would have been a bummer :-[ Another way of looking at it, charge the city $20/hr for your labor, more for any equipment you use, and when you are done use that money to pay them $100 per mbf for the logs. I guarantee they would still owe you money when you get done. Up here red and white pine stumpage for sawtimber is around $85 mbf, out in the woods where the trees just hit the ground and you leave the branches and tops where they lay. The mills are only paying $205 mbf delivered. For your part, what kind of equipment are you using? What about insurance? What are the hazards around the trees? I don't think I've cut a free tree yet that was worth what I put into it ::)
Too many irons in the fire

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2010, 08:15:15 pm »
Tree services I have heard about in my area charge more for taking away the wood than leaving it.
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Offline laffs

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2010, 08:29:06 pm »
 if your buying stumpage from a a landowner for your own use then a $100 th.  but if someone wants a bid to remove some trees that size then they are going to pay you. i agree with pnyberg $500 a tree youl have to rent a chipper but you get the lumber plus $500 a tree
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Offline barbender

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2010, 08:31:24 pm »
 I agree- unless you are desperate for wood I would play hardball with them and let them see that no one is going to pay them for thier hazard trees.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline bill m

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2010, 09:48:05 pm »
Why are these trees considered a hazard? Are they close to power lines, public buildings, play grounds, or what? If they are truly hazard trees they need to pay you to remove them. What makes them think someone is going to pay them for those trees?
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Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2010, 11:19:18 am »
if everyone banned together and charged the going rate to have a tree cut down and extra for wood removal people would not be misled  to beleive that the value of the wood is worth more than the labor ,risk and equipment ,if they are posting an ad on craigslist offering 5 oak trees they want taken down please flag it or respond telling them youre equipment does not run on wood, youre workers dont feed thair familes wood and oh yea tell youre insurance co the cord of wood "s in the mail we realy need to turn the market
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2010, 11:43:30 am »
I would ask for a couple hundred for each stump and I'd keep all millable logs.

I would leave the cleanup to the town.  Most town highway departments have a good sized wood chipper that they could use to take care of the cleanup.
 
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Offline woodmills1

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2010, 06:55:39 pm »
yard trees are not stumpage

I take the good and the bad

I make a living and my tree service guys are very happy for my service


and did we say metal in the best yard logs yet :D
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Offline donny hochstetler

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2010, 10:23:31 pm »
The last pine job i did about six weeks ago i had 16 whitepine about 28 in. avg. i was able to fell them we had to pull about half of them we did the cleanup including stumps 2800.00 plus two loads of logs which i will use for chainsaw carving the customer thought he got a good deal long story short i would not pay these people for these trees JMO

Offline Kansas

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2010, 02:21:52 am »
Here is a different take on the subject. Bear in mind I really don't know anything about white pine.

I know a tree trimmer that took down a walnut tree on city property. It was a big walnut, and turned out a decent log. In the end, it had to get cut up for firewood and carted off. The reason is everyone became a tree expert and decided that he was going to make a killing on the log. City management got scared of public reaction. So the decision was  made not to let anyone salvage the log. I don't know if the tree trimmer had figured any value for the tree when he bid the job.

I would charge to remove the logs then offer to buy back the logs that were good. The city can take or leave the offer. All it takes is some politics for things to get messy in a hurry.

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2010, 05:57:47 am »
Last year, our local municipality decided to take some trees from around their park.  It was along a road, and they decided to take a 50 ft buffer.  The cost was $22,000.  We bought the logs for $4,000, since no one else was buying logs at the time. 

If you decide to cut these trees, make sure you have insurance.  Why don't they have their maintenance crew do the work?
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2010, 06:15:14 am »
If doing this work along power lines we get that done for nothing, but your on a waiting list. Meaning it could be several weeks before they come unless the trees are down on the lines. To me, for free means I can wait as long as it takes. ;) Then I get to keep the firewood and don't mind cleaning up the brush. There won't be much brush because I take limbs down to 2".

I to am baffled that the town can't take them down themselves. Another thing I don't know is if your a tree service company. Maybe the town hires out the tree service. ;D

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline panman

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2010, 07:11:08 am »
No I am not a tree service.
I'm a putz with a chainsaw, and a sawmill, that enjoys cutting wood.
The trees are around a city park, I can fell them any way I want, there is nothing to crush, except other trees.
From what I understand, some of the trees have some rot at the tops.
Don't know why the other trees are being taken out, they are not over buildings, etc.
My plan is to offer, cutting the trees down, sawing them right there, then bringing the lumber home. No money from me at all, and no clean-up!
Should be a pile of lumber.
I'm also a carpenter, so can turn that pile of lumber into a nice building, or two.
So if you guys can squeeze some coin out of your little villages great, I'm fine with just getting the trees.

Jim

Offline northwoods1

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2010, 08:25:45 am »
I think it would be pretty great if you could saw it all on spot and not have to deal with any of that mess from either taking the trees down or the milling. I don't know why your village would let you do that though, that doesn't sound too smart on there part. Probably wouldn't be to smart on there part either to let a putz with a chainsaw and no liability insurance cutting down danger trees in there local park, I'm sure you were just joking about that but a person does have to be careful. I don't know where you are but White pine is not worth much in a lot of places it can be had for free or very cheaply much of the time, and nice logs. I did a tree removal job this summer & removed 5 very large white pine from around a home, removed the brush and all the debris and ground the stumps but left all the wood piled up in the peoples back yard. I could have had the wood but didn't even want it except for I took 2 of the large clear butt logs, and I think it was around $1500 for 3 days work.
 

Online beenthere

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2010, 11:37:17 am »
.........Why don't they have their maintenance crew do the work?

If it is anything like our local village, the work crew will work on what they want to work on and not do anything beyond what they perceive is their job. As a Lion Club member, we took trees down in the Village park as a Lions project because the work crew refused to do it. However, we didn't plan on doing anything with the down material which was mostly willow and some box elder. The Village finally figured out they needed a grapple for their tractor so they could move the brush without having to manually handle it. :) 
There were prolly 50 tree stems in clumps like this pic.

   My partner in crime. The temps were just getting up to 0 deg F this day.

Our biggest hiccup came when the Village tree-huggers raised a ruckus, but not fast enough that all the willow trees were already down.  ;D 
But panman should consider that possibility so those people (every Village likely has them) won't shut down his operation partway into his tree removal. They won't like the mess, the new look, the time it takes, etc. and the Village elders won't likely have the back-bone to stand up to them. 
So panman, I'd approach this with extreme caution if I were in your shoes. :)
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: white pine stumpage value
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2010, 12:46:42 pm »
Maybe just take one down, saw it up, leave whatever, then let it rest a bit and see how you feel about it, and what happens.    A 30 inch pine by yourself is at least the better part of a day's work anyway.   Sounds like it's worth something also in publicizing your sawing.  I've read many times advice to sawyers of "Don't fell trees, leave that to professionals" (plus horror stories), so you should make sure you're exercising the best judgment about whether you are the one who should be felling these trees.   I did a some tree work early on after I first got my sawmill that I still have fond memories of , but would never repeat.   In fact it was volunteer felling of large pines.  Every year I make about a dozen or two birdhouses out of it and I'm not even close to running out of wood.  8) 8)
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