Author Topic: sawdust run engine (Read 6820 times)

JimMartin9999 · « **on:** December 08, 2010, 08:26:33 pm »

I was at a workshop on biofuels held at the Big Flats, NY plant experiment station in September. A guy showed up with an engine which ran on very finely ground sawdust. He got it running and it ran for about a half an hour. My guess is that it was about five horse power.
Dumb me. I didn`t get his name or contact information and didn`t realize the potential of that motor for off net power production.
I have tried to reach him through Cornell Extension and have written to the head of the station but so far no contact.
Have any of you ever seen such an engine?
Does anybody know who this guy is?

fuzzybear · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2010, 10:36:43 pm »

search through the FEMA website for wood gasification. They have the complete instructions/diagrams for building these units. This is not a new technology. Wood burning engines were the norm on farms in North America during WWII. There is already a thread about a wood burning truck here.

Mother Earth News has articles on a wood fired gen set they built as well as a truck. I'm sure there will be a few members along soon that have built these already. It is one thing I have on the to do list for myself. The FEMA site is extremely helpful.

pineywoods · « **Reply #2 on:** December 09, 2010, 10:47:06 am »

As far as I know Wood gasifiers don't work on sawdust. They need fist sized chunks of dry wood. I would be very interested in any kind of engine that runs on sawdust. Keep looking, inquiring minds need to know..

doctorb · « **Reply #3 on:** December 09, 2010, 11:11:24 am »

I might suggest writing PM to Bioman. He knows lots about alternative fuels and energy production, and he may have some good insight into sawdust as a fuel. Doctorb

trim4u2nv · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2010, 12:40:51 pm »

Diesel, the inventor of the high compression injected engine, intended to run his engine on coal dust. The ruhr valley was piled high with waste coal dust at the time. He tried peanut oil which worked better and then kerosene even better. The first version that ran on coal dust blew the cylinder head off. He was also nearly killed with a steam engine that ran on ammonia exploded also. Maybe you want to step back a few paces from an experimental engine while its running.

JimMartin9999 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2010, 07:45:13 pm »

I am still waiting for replys and will pass on info if I get some.
But I want to make clear that this engine was not a gasification type: it ran on sawdust and I watched it do so, at a respectable distance till it had run for a few minutes.

barbender · « **Reply #6 on:** December 10, 2010, 10:33:34 am »

Dry airborne sawdust is definately explosive, I've read of explosions in mills around here back in the day. I suppose they didn't have any air filtration back then, probably dust off of a planer I suppose for it to be dry.

JSNH · « **Reply #7 on:** December 10, 2010, 01:24:13 pm »

About two years ago I took a tour of a pellet plant in Jaffrey, NH. They had a gas turbine generator they were about to run on sawdust. They had already done a few test runs but were in the process of finishing the automation. Anyhow the sawdust was really dry and ground to a powder. The dry ground sawdust was put into a pipe the pipe was closed and 120 psi of compressed air was added. The dust and air mixture was injected directly into the gas turbine engine. It turned a generator and the waste heat helped dry the sawdust for the whole plant. It started on diesel than ran on the dust.

Ianab · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2010, 01:50:54 pm »

Really fine dust can certainly be explosive. Think belt sander type dust. Throw a handful of that on a rubbish fire, it's like a cup of petrol. (if you do try - start with a small amount - a bucket full will remove your eyebrows.)

Here's some guys with a barrel of sawdust, too much time on their hands, and now, no eyebrows.

So a sawdust powered engine doesn't seem impossible, and I can see how it could work in a gas turbine setup. I'm sure there are some engineering problems that would need to be worked though, but it's not impossible.

Ian

JimMartin9999 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2010, 06:15:46 pm »

OK, I got an answer From Big Flats, NY.
Here is the company contact;

http://www.summerhillbiomass.com/about-us

SUMMERHILL BIOMASS SYSTEMS, INC.; 4641 Brookhill Drive., North, Manilus, NY 13104 (US) (All Except US).

I also found a patent application:
Patent application title: POWDERED FUELS, DISPERSIONS THEREOF, AND COMBUSTION DEVICES RELATED THERETO
Inventors: James K. McKnight James T. McKnight
Agents: EDWARDS ANGELL PALMER & DODGE LLP
Assignees: SUMMERHILL BIOMASS SYSTEMS, INC.
Origin: BOSTON, MA US
IPC8 Class: AF23N100FI
USPC Class: 431 12
Patent application number: 20100055629

http://www.summerhillbiomass.com/about-us

SUMMERHILL BIOMASS SYSTEMS, INC.; 4641 Brookhill Drive., North, Manilus, NY 13104 (US) (All Except US).

Usenet FAQ Index

Patent application title: POWDERED FUELS, DISPERSIONS THEREOF, AND COMBUSTION DEVICES RELATED THERETO
Inventors: James K. McKnight James T. McKnight
Agents: EDWARDS ANGELL PALMER & DODGE LLP
Assignees: SUMMERHILL BIOMASS SYSTEMS, INC.
Origin: BOSTON, MA US
IPC8 Class: AF23N100FI
USPC Class: 431 12
Patent application number: 20100055629

Another link:
Read more: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100055629#ixzz17kh3Rg4x

I think some of you "dirty hands" tinkerers will appreciate what potential this kind of an engine has, This is the first direct wood to power system I have seen. Gasification has lots of problems involved. This kind of fuel can be blown into a motor with no initial fire building. It won´t stack/bridge? If you can grind the wood fine enough and dry it, I calculate you should be able to drive about 5000 miles. I plan on using one for an off the grid power generator.

fishpharmer · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2010, 06:57:24 pm »

Jim, that's some exciting news. Should be interesting to watch this develop. So what would you say about a sawdust car "miles per cord?"

beenthere · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2010, 07:54:06 pm »

Great!!

When/where are you going to buy the engine?

We'll be interested to see the rigors of preparing the fuel and keeping the gen plant running.

Soon?

jpgreen · « **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2010, 08:36:52 pm »

Ever heard of "Brown Powder", gun powder? That's what it is, fine sawdust.

jpgreen · « **Reply #13 on:** December 11, 2010, 09:34:42 pm »

The big question with wood gassification is how much cost, time, and work will be involved in processing fuel for your particular situation?

That has been a big question of mine, and right now it has not panned out to be very practical it seems for an off grid home and small business situation.

You have to spend countless hours producing fuel the correct shape. There is no commercial chipper that I'm aware of in the US that will produce a good shape wood chip or chunk for woodgas. Drum chippers produce slivers, that bridge and don't work well at all. The Chinese import disk chippers are being used by folks over in Berkeley are small, and they have to classify off the small stuff- an extra step.

The only machine I see up to the task, where you could process a sizeable amount of chunk wood is the large Laimet- screw auger type chippers, that are available overseas for $20,000 plus USD not counting shipping.

Now if these folks with their "Wood Flour" system, have an idea on how the small home and business operation could use an (affordable) machine to process the fuel in large enough quantities, quickly enough where you're not spending all your days making fuel- to run an engine to generate off grid power, then maybe this may be a solution.

For now I sit off grid with PV panels and engines generating power for our home and my shop/business surrounded by forest with an abundance of wood bio mass, looking for a solution to get off of petrol fuels.

pineywoods · « **Reply #14 on:** December 11, 2010, 10:30:55 pm »

I took the time to wade through all the information. From what I see, it can be done, but not likely be practical. Unless you have a source of very fine dust at little or no cost, The time and effort to make your own would exceed the energy created. Sorta like making your own alky. Still interesting tho.

JimMartin9999 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 12, 2010, 10:05:36 pm »

Jpgreen, This is not a gasification system.

I grind my grain at home. Wheat berries are harder than rough saw dust. So a simple grain mill should do. It can`t be that hard to grind rough wood ships or sawdust fine enough. From reading the Forum for a few years, I have seen that some of the members are very inventive at solving mechanical problems. A rough estimate is that a cord of wood has about the same BTU energy as 160 gallons of oil. Certainly there is enough energy in a cord to grind that cord and have plenty of surplus energy left over for other uses.

jpgreen · « **Reply #16 on:** December 12, 2010, 10:12:46 pm »

Yes- I realize it's not a gassifier system but the the question of processing fuel, or the practicality thereof is key for either of these systems.

36 coupe · « **Reply #17 on:** December 28, 2010, 08:19:47 am »

There are plenty of books on wood gas.When I sold books I got a few copies of a book that showed how build a gas plant that could run a 5hp engine.

Jeff · « **Reply #18 on:** December 28, 2010, 08:46:56 am »

I spent about 10 years a couple winters ago trying to dry sawdust for a burner.

jpgreen · « **Reply #19 on:** December 28, 2010, 09:41:37 am »

Plenty of time.

You're still young yet Jeff. You haven't past that 50 hump yet ...

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Author Topic: sawdust run engine (Read 6820 times)