Logging Roads - Point source pollutent?

[woodtroll]

Has any one heard much on the 9th circut Court ruling on logging roads being a point source for pollution?
They are pushing for the EPA to start treating them as such under the Clean Water Act.
This would affect all roads used for logging and hauling, both public and private!

[woodtroll]

Here's some more info:
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2010/08/17/07-35266.pdf
http://www.stoel.com/showalert.aspx?Show=6993
and
http://www.wildlandscpr.org/legal-notes/logging-roads-stormwater-and-clean-water-act
with this last link be sure to read the "What it means " section at the bottom.

[SwampDonkey]

If our governments were half as serious as they profess, they would forbid imports from competition not following the same rules as you and I are forced to.  But oh no, fair trade doesn't mean being held to an equal environmental standard. 

[mad murdock]

I have heard of this ploy by the activist judges on the 9th Circus to further cut off the people from access to the public lands.  I hope that the general public can see through all of this junk, just llike the spotted owl issue, most of the stuff that has come out of the federal courts in the last 20 yeaars had been highly politically charged, and based on JUNK science.  Meanwhile, they continue to destroy rural america one piece at a time with the outrageous rulings that come from the bench.  Kind of like the USFWS take on the snail darter, using that as an excuse to cut the breadbasket of the west (the San Juaquin Valley), of irrigation water for the farms there, saying that the health and vitality of some almost unknown little fish is more important to the nation than feeding people?!?  I fail to understand the line of thinking that leads people to support such positions.  Logging roads ar no more a point source for pullution, than are the airways traveled by today's modern jet traffic, then again, who knows, maybe they will outlaw air travel in their infinite wisdom as well.

[Mark K]

They are pushing it pretty hard on state lands around here. I finished my certification up for Trained Logger Certified this summer and they told us as long as we follow the BMP handbook we will be fine. I work in alot of hilly, steep terrain where water bars, box culverts and sediment traps are required to put in. Takes a little preparation but is better than paying thousands of dollars in fines. DEC stops in almost weekly to check on haul roads for rutting and water quality. Im not pushing for the EPA to get involved but if it stops half these fly by night operators who don't follow the regulations and gives us a bad name then I'm for it.   

[captain_crunch]

Like here when we log they have a stream consern on permit State forester came to look one day and when he asked me about stream I had to elplaine to him he drove accross it about a 1/4 mile back Rule says if it runs water 1 more day than it is dry it is a stream

[woodtroll]

I think most of us want to do the best job we can. This just sounds like more agencies getting told to put their noses in our business. Pretty soon more people will be employed regulating forestry, then growing a forest or producing a log.
Foresters we need to do good planning, sale lay out and management.
Loggers need to do a good clean job.
I blame the truckers... it's always the truckers.
HaHa

[Clark]

I'm still trying to figure out how you could view a road as point source pollution.  Of course, the 9th circut Court tends to see reality much differently than I do.

Clark