A Portable Production Bandmill

[Brian_Bailey]

Here is what I meant in another post about what's a small production mill. This mill can swamp ya with lumber If'n your not careful  .

I had this mill custom made for me by Sanborn Machine of So. Waterford, Maine in 1985. I had been running a WM LT30 for a little over a year and yearned for a portable with higher production figures. This mill provided that.





This picture shows the reason for the higher production. The band is a 19 ga. 5" wide blade with sliver teeth on the back side. It cut a kerf approx. .090.  The teeth were swaged, 1.25 pitch. The blade next to it is a WM 1.25", 7/8 pitch.



The blade is rusty and has a few teeth missing, but I'm saving it as a momento from my past.  I sold the mill in 89 because my captive helpers (sons) wanted a better life in the Army. The mill was more than I could handle by myself, so I modified my business plan and returned back to the WM family.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it .

[D._Frederick]

B_B,
What kind of wood was you sawing and what kind of production did you get out of the Sanborn? How much of a problem was maintenance of the wide blade? How big a job was it to move and get set-up to saw?

[Brian_Bailey]

D_F,  

I sawed mostly Basswood, Butternut, Tulip, and E. Hemlock as I had buyers for as much as I could saw. I also sawed / KD quite a bit of Cherry, Maple, & Red Oak for the cabinet & trim boys. Plus whatever someone brought up to be custom sawed.

I never realized the full potential of the mill because it was powered by a 23hp khohler. The 23hp was standard and I intended to replace it with a 65hp Wisc. In softwoods, we avg. 2-3 mbf. in an afternoon of sawing.  Hardwoods, 1.5-2 mbf / afternoon was common. These numbers would of been a lot higher with the bigger engine and men instead of teenage boys as helpers  . Sanborn claimed 5mbf /day was easily attainable.

Sharpening the bands was no big deal as I sent them out to be done. Unless you have a filing room with all the right equipment your not going to maintain them yourself.

The weight of the mill was 5 tons and it needed to have the log loader unhooked and the headblocks removed to be road legal. So needless to say, you didn't move it to saw a half dozen logs . The small portables mills definately have the advantage here, but thats it.

This mill was not meant for the weekend sawyer, but rather for someone looking for a small production mill that could be portable.  Wavy cuts weren't an issue with this mill, also .

Hope this answers your ?'s

[D._Frederick]

B_B,
Thanks for the reply, the only question I have is what happens to the board when it is cut-off. Sawmilling & Woodlot had evaluated the slant Sanborn band mill a few years back. They showed a belt to carry the cut-off boards.

[Chet]

Jeff and I where checking out a video of that setup at the Lake States Logging Congress. It was an impressive looking mill. But one thing we where questioning was the abuse the head blocks would take when loading large logs or flipping big cants.

[Ron Wenrich]

I don't see where there would be anymore of a beating from turning cants than a conventional mill.  Especially if you are turning out.  Logs would probably roll onto the headblocks, due to the angle.

I think these would make a pretty good resaw for a circle mill.  Can be bought for about $30K, used.  

S & W also makes a pretty hefty mill.  Not sure of the production capacity, but runs a 2" band.

[Jeff]

I was more concerned with the trucks and wheel bearings and such, with the way the logs dropped on to the carriage rather then rolled on. Beefy Oak logs take their toll.

[Jeff]

One good point that I really liked was the way the cant or log was always tight to the knee because of gravity.

[Brian_Bailey]

D._F,  

I'd forgotten about Sawmill & Woodlot's review. Dug out my copy and reread the article. I remembered thinking when I first read it that the production figures were kinda low. I don't think those mills were being run too hard as I was getting those figures with my meager operation.
Here is how the boards came off the mill. At the end of the cut the board would drop down into the tray. When you gigged the head back the board came with it. The times, when I worked alone, I would keep sawing, letting the boards stack up on the tray until the saw carriage became tipsy. I then stopped and stacked the boards. Helpers were always appreciated .



Chet,  

That was one of my concerns when I ordered the mill. I was assured they were build to withstand the punishment and they were. I did notice in the mag. review mentioned above that the headblocks shown in the article appeared not as heavily built as mine were. There was one weak link though and that was the brass/bronze nut that moved the headblock back & forth. It was powered by a 11/2" acme threaded rod. One day I was in the middle of a cut when all of a sudden one of the headblocks slid all the way down . An unsettling experience at best.

Ron,  

That's funny you mention resaw, because every time I took the bands to the filer, he would remind me that these bands were for resawing, not for primary breakdown of logs. He recommended nothing less than an 8" band for sawing logs .

While digging out that back issue of Sawmill & Woodlot, I came across the 2001 Shoot Out issue and in it was a double cut bandmill, Heartwood Mod. 310. It cut 504 bf in 13 mins. www.heartwoodsaw.com  Now lets see,  

[Brian_Bailey]

Jeff,  

When I had a large log, I would slowly lower the loader so the log didn't slam against the knees. I then ran the headblocks back so the log was postioned for the first cut. I think this saved them from being pounded, but cost me in added wear to the brass nuts.

[Chet]

Seems like I remember that they had some sort of spring type cushion for the head blocks. But I don't remember anything special about the trucks, as Jeff said.

[D._Frederick]

B_B,
Nice photo's, glad that you posted them. Were the acme threads greaseable or did you just have to replace the nuts?

[Brian_Bailey]

You gots ta remember my mill was built in 1985. I'm sure Sanborn has made a lot of changes in their design just like Woodmizer has. Since I bought my 99 WM I haven't kept up to speed on whats out there. No need to   .

[Brian_Bailey]

D._F,  

Thanks, I like to post pictures. Saves ya from a lot of typing.  Besides, I have to recoup the $39 Tom & Jeff made me spend on the xat program so I could post pics here

The threads were easy to get to, all I did was wipe them with a rag that was soaked in gear oil a couple of times a day. I tried grease at first but it just gobbed up at the brass nut and made for a mess. The oil was much better.

[ScottAR]

   The Heartwood operation is impressive!!  This sawing thing is gonna get me in trouble, I can tell already...

[solidwoods]

$30,000 used?
5000bf day?
And were not even off the mill for edging yet.
Could someone go to a "fetch the log and bring it to a circle" operation" and come out better?
I kind of think above a certain amount going portable with a bandmill beats a dead horse. The production is just not there compared to non portable, circle, maybe even add a log truck.
I guess allot of it depends on the local economy where you work.  Many make it work somehow.  I tell my friends "it's no get rich quick scheme"
If you can craft some of your equip., you can really keep the overhead down.  
JIM

[Ron Wenrich]

I'm not sure what you're trying to come up with?  5 Mbf/day is pretty good production for a basically manual mill, either circle or band.  

Small bandmills are ideal for portable operations.  They are not ideal when you are sawing for wholesale operations, like most circle mills.  You either have to buy cheap logs or lower your production costs.

On any type of operation, profit=lumber value - log costs - production costs.

Niche marketing will get you a higher lumber value, especially if you are looking at small lots that bigger mills either ignore or overlook.

Log costs are dependent on competition in the area.  If competition is high for a certain species, you'll have to pay more.  

Production costs are a function of how much you can run through a given amount time.  Overhead has to be controlled, but the equipment must be bought that will satisfy the operation.  

If you only want to produce a couple Mbf/year, you don't need a bandmill with all the bells and whistles.  If you want to produce a trailerload of ties a day, a bandmill won't fit the ticket.  

Old, beat up equipment can cost more to operate than new equipment.  What you save in your initial investment, you lose in downtime or poorly manufactured product.  Our costs are about $2/minute.  So, a 15 minute breakdown due to some cheap chain costs a lot more than a better grade of chain, for example.  How many grade boards do you have to lose due to a poor setworks before you repair or replace it?   Sometimes you need a sharp pencil, and its usually before you invest in equipment.

[Brian_Bailey]

One of the reasons I stepped up to the Sanborn was because of its ability to saw hemlock and basswood fast without wavy miscut boards.

One of the reasons I sold it and went back to a WM was because of the expense of maintaining the bands. It was eating into profits big time.

Plus my filer was retiring and that meant either invest another 20 grand plus into the required equipment for a file room or start shipping the blades out of state, major expense.  

Another factor was the amish. They had recently started up several mills nearby and their paying cash for logs made it difficult to obtain quality logs at times.

I pushed the pencil pretty hard back then ( still do ) and decided to modify my business plan. I felt concentrating on niche markets ( not custom sawing either ) with a quality product rather than quanity would be my goal.

I4 years later, I'm still looking for that DanG goose  .

[Ron Wenrich]

The biggest reasons I've seen for mills going broke is the inability to buy sawlogs at an afforadable price.  The telltale signs are the quality of logs in the yard.  Small logs are expensive to mfg.  But, as supplies go down, so does the log size, along with profits.

Some mills will retool for the smaller logs, and survive.  Others will try to use older technology to lower costs, but usually lower productivity.  The new wave is to try to add as much value before it leaves your door.  That works as long as not everyone does it.  

We've been selling some hemlock logs to a guy who undercuts our price.  We would rather him saw at a lower price and slowly twist in the wind and go broke.  Those custom orders aren't real money makers for us.  Too much time for too little return.

I would rather eliminate unprofitable logs from the production stream.  A good mill analysis will tell you which logs you should and shouldn't be cutting.  It varies with each mill setup and with species and grade.  Too bad not many mills use it.

[Brian_Bailey]

Ron,  

I've found for my operation, it is more profitable for me to pay the bigger bucks up front and get the better logs. I have more customers wanting the upper grade lumber and are willing to pay for it.
Wholesaleing the lower grades is not an option for me because of the small amount that I have. Besides, the transport costs would eat up any ( if any ) profits. So value added is the the way for me on these grades.

Your last two posts are priceless and should be required reading for anyone contemplating getting into sawmilling as a business !!