Sharpening Chains.. by > File, Rotary Files and Grinding Machines.. Trying All 3

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

Did a Search and Read the Different Post's.

I bought two saws about 3 weeks ago and have about 8 to 10 hours on them both. They are still cutting Ok but could use a touch up. Really, just  a couple runs of the file across them was all that was needed.

I've always sharpened by hand and a good quality file is the Right Answer to hand filing. I think it's easy to touch a new chain up. However, pay attention to what your doing & look at the tooth angle & match it with the file, and put your glasses on before you mess up (old timer comment).

I read the different posts about hitting some rocks or metal and having heavy damage to your teeth & filing a chain that's nearly wore out. It's a chore for some of us... to repair hvy. tooth damage. It's good to measure the shortest side teeth if someone got them out of wack. Match up the long side to the shortest  teeth... to keep from pulling (cutting) to one side. Buy & use a cheapy caliper to match the teeth up in length (if your lazer eye's are put of calibration  , if need be  ).

I read here..  that one of the folks has a good technique, he just takes a little off ... per tooth when he does them with a Rotary or Machine type grinder & avoid's tooth burn this way. The most that is taken off in one pass is about >> .005" per pass.  I realize that >> .005" per pass is just kiss of the wheel to the tooth with the stone. Also and/ or >>> apply a touch of side pressure to the machine grinder handle to  get what you want (.005 or so) and No Blue Tooth Burn.

I sharpened my Efco 251 and Solo 681 with new machine type grinder tonight. I just (lightly) kissed the teeth with the machine wheel. The proof of this 1st run with the machine sharper will the wood chips tomorrow. I remember how long they were and the cutting speed with the new chains on the saws.

I bought a 12 Volt Oregon rotary file grinder too. I have a friend that love's his grinder & has used it for some time. My next sharpening job will be with it.. so I'll let you  know my finding's. I like the rotary file deal already and think the tooth (round) radius profile will be better than the one from the machine grinder. The micro finish (round profile) will be most likely cut a little better too. It's just an educated guess at this point, we we see in a few days and I'm interested to see how the Oregon Grinder works out.

Ok All, just sharing some info. and open for feed back & your finding's too.

Thank Ya,

Avery

[dellwas]

I've got a Timbre Tuff grinder and just "kiss" the chains with it after a day's cutting.  I touch them up prior to this if needed by hand filing.  Chains stay nice and sharp for me this way.

[Kevin]

Avery, sharpen your chains after every couple of fuel fillings.
It will keep the saw performing and wear on the bar to a minimum.
The only time I would use a grinder on a chain is on a rocked out chain.

[HolmenTree]

If the only grinder you own is a 4 1/2'' angle grinder that will fix a rocked out chain real quick too. Saw clamped in a bench vise , with a thin grinding disc gently grind back the cutters  and not to low into the gullets. Then finish off with a file. Good idea to wear a mask and safety glasses.
Willard

[Jasperfield]

I have found that using the "Save-Edge" brand files has improved my sharpening more than anything else. A stump vise set at an easy working height helps a lot, too.

In my opinion the rotary, or dremel-type, sharpeners are not consistent and will wear down a chain in a short period. The stones used in these grinders will wear away pretty fast resulting in tooth profile loss.

I have a USG sharpener that I rarely use, but it works very well after you've read the instructions.

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

I Hand Filed the two saws today and things went fine. When it's all said & done...(advice above too)  think that hand filing is the way to go, unless serious chain damage has occurred.

I bought two german made files today and they cut good. What about these Sav-Edge files, what are they like & where do you buy them ?

These german files cut fine but seemed a litte harsh (perhaps). I thought the finish on the filed tooth seemed a little course (just eye balling).

What other files are out there that .. that cut good and leave a good finish ?


Avery 

[Skiddah]

I've had excellent luck with Frost Bite files.  They seem to last longer than the average file and hold up well pretty much until they're worn out, meaning they don't seem to tail off as quickly as some other brands I've used over the years.
I used to be a golf course superintendent and my mechanic had an Oregon chain grinder in the shop.  This was when I was only cutting wood part time and I used to bring my chains in for him to grind.  I could do just as good a job I felt with a hand file when I put them back to work.  Even with extensive chain damage.  
When it comes to extensive chain damage, with a few extra minutes and a lot of extra strokes, I can bring even the gnarliest chain back to life.  Not to toot my own horn (or maybe to toot my own horn  ), I pride myself on my hand filing ability.  It's just something I've got very good at over the years.  Nobody likes to hit a rock, or metal, or anything foreign with their saw, but it's not the end of the world.  To professionals who do it day in and day out, it just seems like it's not that big of a deal to get it back to where it needs to be.  To the average homeowner or hobbyist, it could be a question of ability or benefit.  They may not have the ability to return the chain to an adequate sharpness, or it just might be worth it to them to replace it.  Essentially there's no magic bullet here when it comes to sharpening chain, it's all based on ability and comfort level.

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

Skiddah,

I Read You 100%.

I machine filed both chains a couple days ago, just touched them (very light kiss of the stone). I bought this chain saw sharpner brand new as open box buy and has a full selection of stones (Oregon Brand). I did not like the radius result from the machine touch up. Forgot to mention that I have worked machine shop and was taught to grind my own cutter's and not completely lost when it comes to sharpening tools, drill bits, etc. .

I used the saws about four hours each the next day and touched them up with a hand file and used them again today and they cut very good.

Yesterday, I set myself up right to get a good job. I have not file a chain for 40 years and needed to get back in the grove.  I vised the bar and had a good light to see the tooth & glasses cleaned off. My hands were at the right height and took nice even strokes and consistent with each other. Watching the file run along the tooth and make sure it's straight & true to tooth profile, holding slight pressure back into the tooth. To some of you, filing a chain is no big thing (you've filed 100" of chains) and do not give it a 2nd thought.

However, when I  read that guys are have a rough time.... the saw does not cut or cuts to one side... most of the problem comes from screwing up from the beginning. So, like any job pay attention to detail, (most common} use the right file for (5/52 or 7/32) the chain, correct angle } (30 or 25 deg.) and tilt angle } (10 deg.). With a new chain, it's All in Front of Your Face, just follow the tooth profile & marker angle on the tooth face.

Thanks for the input, it's good to share ones acquired knowledge & individual experiences.   

Avery

[Holmes]

Hawk Pilot  That is a great summary on filing a chain, with your description most people should be able to at least give it a try.

[Reddog]

What about these Sav-Edge files, what are they like & where do you buy them ?

http://www.baileysonline.com/search.asp?SKW=save%20round&catID=10158

[Dan_Shade]

maybe it's because I don't know any better, but...

I used to worry about having my chains "perfect".  I never really had to "learn" how to use a file, it comes natural to me,  I don't worry too much about the length of the cutters, I figure my "randomness" makes it pretty well average out. 

I suppose if I had a problem with a chain cutting curves, I'd try to figure out which side cutter was causing the curve, and compensate for that.

My method is to always more or less hit each tooth with the same number of strokes, each time I sharpen.  If I get a seriously rocked out chain, i'll try to stick to the magic number (normally 3 strokes), and if I can't get the tooth sharp on 3 strokes, I'll give it a few more.

I guess I'm a hack, I'd do surgury with a cleaver.

[HolmenTree]

A good cutting sawchain does not need all its cutters perfectly even sized. One side of cutters being alot different in size from the other side will be a problem though. Random size differences throughout both left and right cutters is not a big concern. As long as the cutters are sharp at their cutting edges and depth gauges are not too low or too high is the major concern. Also not too much hook in the side plates [ file too low in gullet] or file too high in gullet [backslope in side plate].
 Look down at the front of the cutters top plate cutting edges. If light reflects off that cutting edge then the edge is dull and needs to be sharpened. When all light along the edge is no longer seen your cutter is sharp to go.

Willard.

[Al_Smith]

The Dremel types are an option to repair a damaged chain .They aren't a good choice in my opinion for everyday chain maintainance .

Hand filing is an acquired skill which some pick up easily,some take longer and some never do get the hang of it .With that in mind it's a lead pipe cinch you'll never get good at it if you don't do it .

[HolmenTree]

I remember  learning to file as a young man, filing with 2 hands steadies the file but with practice and stronger hand strength I found filing with 1 hand is much more accurate and quicker in stroke movement. Plus you have 1 spare hand to steady the cutter [wear gloves]. And yes that quick full stroke is the key to good filing. Full file stroke optimizes the effientcy of the files built in spiral cut.

Willard.

[Skiddah]

Avery,

I agree with your assessment.  To a new guy starting out and learning to hand file, just following "directions" and trying to follow them accurately will really enhance their skill.  Like you mentioned, if you don't take your time and learn your angles, etc. you're not going to do it correctly.

Hand filing is an acquired skill which some pick up easily,some take longer and some never do get the hang of it .With that in mind it's a lead pipe cinch you'll never get good at it if you don't do it .

Bingo!!

Willard - I agree that you don't need to get the cutters prefectly even from both the left and right hand sides.  I think as long as your raker depths are set to each tooth using a raker gauge, you make up for some discrepancies in length.  Being right handed, in the field I always get a better purchase on the cutters from the right hand side.  My left hand side cutters are always a tad longer due to that.  I'll often add and extra stroke from the left side to compensate.  Now if your sides are grossly out of whack, that's a different story.

[Al_Smith]

There's all kinds of trick to salvage a damaged chain .Like for instance a badly damaged cutter you have to take back much further than the rest .You take that depth gauge down a tad more not much though  .Now depending who made the chain in might have some side relief angle though  which because the side of the chain does the cutting it won't matter that much .

[HolmenTree]

Willard - I agree that you don't need to get the cutters prefectly even from both the left and right hand sides.  I think as long as your raker depths are set to each tooth using a raker gauge, you make up for some discrepancies in length.  Being right handed, in the field I always get a better purchase on the cutters from the right hand side.  My left hand side cutters are always a tad longer due to that.  I'll often add and extra stroke from the left side to compensate.  Now if your sides are grossly out of whack, that's a different story.

If in a rush some saw filers file the right hand cutters with less top plate angle because of the saws top handle being in the way interferring with the right arm. Also harder to put down pressure on the file on the right hand cutters too, causing a less aggressive backslope in the side plate.
 I worked with a Swiss logger once who filed both left and right cutters from one side of the bar , looked weird but upon trying it myself it worked good. File your left hand cutters the normal way and then from the same side of the bar file against the right hand cutters top and side plate corner. Kind of like filing chisel bit chain.
I file my Stihl 090AV- 36" on my Alaskan sawmill this same way because you can't file the right hand cutters normally without taking the mill off the saw.

Willard.

[Al_Smith]

Everyone has their favorite method .Mine is right over the back of the saw looking down on the chain, left right left all the way around .

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

Good Comment's Above.

I learned a few tricks of the trade from your post's. Learned that when a chain hit's something and is damaged.... it's not necessary or smart >> to file other teeth to equal size; along with other methods of filing .. from different sides of the bar & from the rear. I'm going to try filing from the rear of the saw in the near future.

Also, on U Tube, I saw a guy make a filing stand from a tree stump (cut 3 ft. high or so).  It was pretty slick, it took about 5 minutes to make it. He cut a slot for the saw like a long vise jaw, slotted out about two feet up.. I'd say.  He used a wedge at the bottom to tap in to apply pressure on the wood jaw at the top. It looked good and just something I'd like to do for the heck of it.


Avery

[joe_indi]

If the chain is fairly new or has completed only half its usable life and if the damage is just to a few of the cutters, maybe up to a maximum of 10 to 15 of them, the more economic thing to do would be to just replace those cutters.Why grind down all the good cutters on a loop to the decreased size of reshaped cutters?
I too used to grind or file all the cutters on a loop just for the sake of some stone damaged cutters. That is till I realized that its easier and faster to grind down a couple of new cutters to the size of the used cutters.

[thecfarm]

Took me a while to realize that I take more off the chain when the motor is on the left side.I take one less swipe on that side and it cuts fine now.It's good to know how to sharpen by hand.I don't really want to change how I sharpen now.I'd have to learn all over again.
You can buy a chainsaw vise that you just pound into a stump.Shaped like a "U" with two places on the bottom to pound it into the stump. Cost about $10 about 15 years ago.  Easy to move it from one stump to another.

[Al_Smith]

What to do with a badly damaged chain,the big question .It will cost you about a buck or so the time you buy the cutter and tie strap to replace one .Then you have to knock the thing apart and spin up a new one .Often times Baileys has loops on sale for like 12 bucks for a 72 driver loop of 3/8's chisel .Shucks if you bought the components to spin a 20" loop individually you'd have 100 bucks in it .

Those rocked chains are what I use for race chain stock .Usually the chain would be worn back to where it's thinner and all you have to do is cut it down to a 60 driver or whatever .Then the fun begins,file the stupid thing until your fingers get so stiff you can't bend them any more .