Author Topic: # 1 saw bench. build (Read 6873 times)

weisyboy · « **on:** October 10, 2010, 07:34:10 am »

got my blades today.

so considering its bucketing down i thaught id put the bench together.

here is a rough sketch of what im doing.

36" blade run off the tractor pto.

feed will either be hydrolic of friction.

Meadows Miller · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2010, 08:55:53 am »

Gday Carl

Looks like your got the makings of an Aussie Belsaw Mate

I have a nice 36" 20 tooth insert that works great with pto hp it just chews up the logs I could have sold you too Mate

I take it your planing on sawing small n short salvage logs for sleepers ,pallet and case timber and the like Mate

I recon you wont need to make your sizing to heavy to cope with that and a dual V belt friction feed should work fine at a fraction of the price of hyd (does your tractor have hyd couplings at the rear for remotes ?) as that would be an easy rig up too Mate

I sent you a reply to your message too with regards to sizing and will email the drawings for you tonight Mate

Regards Chris

weisyboy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2010, 06:58:17 pm »

no trouble mate.

for logs up to about 3.5m long and about 12-14" diameter. they are a bit small to do on the lucass.

and iv got a stack of small pine logs now so ill do all of them and might buil a second house up here. there is no other use for all the crap.

tractor has rear hydrolics, but might just go with friction, i can find anyware that sells shafts that i can put pulleys and pilow blocks on . but ill keep looking.

wev had 5" of rain overnight so im not going anyware today. creeks will be way over.

Carpenter · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2010, 10:51:14 pm »

You could get a belsaw arbor shaft. That would be the right size for the saw you are building. Or, you may have to get a bar slightly over sized and have it turned down, that would make it perfect because they don't come perfect if you just get a bar. Of course then it would have to be turned down for the collar and threaded. It would be so much easier to just get an old belsaw for parts, if you can find one in Australia. What are you going to do for headblocks? Or do bench saws even have headblocks? What exactly is a bench saw anyway? I've got another question, is that a right or a left handed saw? That may seem like a dumb question, but at first glance it looks like a right handed belsaw, where the husk is actually part of the frame and the orange table with the rollers is just an outfeed table with the rollers on the wrong side, or is that actually a husk which makes it a left handed saw. It's kind of hard to tell from the picture. It looks like a fun project for a rainy day

. Good luck and keep us informed, I would like to know how its coming along.
Oh, I just thought, if it is a left handed mill, the belsaw shaft won't work. The threads would be backwards.

weisyboy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 12, 2010, 05:29:22 am »

a sawmill is a place that saws timber, saw benches are what they use to saw timber.

this would be a number 1 bench used for breaking down.
a number 2 has rollers and a fence used for resawing cants.
a number 3 is smaller again just like a bit table saw.

i dug out an old saw arbor from down the back.

will work a treat, could only find 1" idler shafts but will go to the wreckers and get an axle from a land cruiser or patrol they are 35mm. wil then get a 1 3/8 " 6 spline machined onto one end to attach to tractor.

i need a 300mm pulley on the idler and 100mm on the saw spindle.

i think i have the drive worked out, just got iron out the details. but it might just still be easyer to go hydrolic.

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 12, 2010, 08:12:36 am »

Weisy, your bench saws are a different concept than we're used to over here.I've seen old ones that were used to resaw products like lobster pot or plaster laths not for primary log breakdown.Do you dog the log down,or just manually hold it on the carriage.??Frank C.

weisyboy · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2010, 08:24:20 am »

this is a verry simple design used for squaring and cutting cants that can be sawn into board on a #2 bench.

the log are sat on the carriage and doged to stop them from rolling, the dogs are more or less like a cant hook hook that is hinged off the bolsters.

weisyboy · « **Reply #7 on:** October 16, 2010, 04:01:29 am »

made a start today.

was able to collect up most of the bits i needed from round the place.

i have

1 1/2 " shaft spindle with a antclockwise thread. (perfect as tractors pto runs anti clockwise)

1 3/8" toyota hilux rear axle shaft. for power shaft, have to get 6 tooth spline cut on one end, the wheel end will have a drum, actually a split rim, on it and be the friction drum for the carriage movement.

1" drive shaft for feed spindle friction end, have 250mm wheel one end and 2 1/2" pulley the other.

3/4" shaft for feed, 6" pulley on the one end and i need to put a drum for the carriage pull cable on the other.

i still need,

1 x 10" 3 spb pulley (1 3/8" taperlock center)
1 x 4" 3 spb pulley (1 1/2" taperlock center)
1 x 76 " x 2" flat belt
3 x 82" b section V belts
1 x 40" A section V belts

1 x 1 3/8" pillow block bearing
3 x 3/4" pillow block bearing
1 x hilux rear axle bearing.
8 x 3/8" bore sealed bearings

70' 1/4" wire rope.
2 x pulley blocks

i still have to make

drum for wire to wind onto.
carriage
4 x wheels to run on train track
10 x idler rollers

and i have to get a 6 spline cut on the hilux axle.

not to bad really.

clear as mud what im doing hay?

ill do a drawing to explain.

weisyboy · « **Reply #8 on:** October 16, 2010, 04:58:10 am »

so this hopefully will make it clearer ish.

the yellow shaft is where the tractor attaches,

(orange)3 belts go from a 4" pulley there up to a 10" pulley on the spindle input speed is 400 rpm @ 1 : 2.5 that has the blade at 1000rpm. witch gives about 9000-10 000 fpm tip speed.

(blue) as the drive shaft is a hilux axle there is a hub on the end, a hylux split rim goes on there, its 16" diameter, and the other blue wheel is a 10" cast wheel with inner tube stretched over it for grip, a 2" wide flat belt, then the blue wheel is moved up it rubs on the drum and turns clockwise when its pushed down it tightens the belt and goes anticlockwise.

the other end of that shaft (red) has a 2.5" pulley, that drives down to a 6" pulley on the end of the feed drive shaft (red)

so gearing there is 1:1.6 increase then 1:2.4 reduction so it ends up being 1:1.5 reduction.

so input is 400rpm feed spindle is doing 266rpm. on a 1.5" drum its doing 100 fpm max feed.

if thats to fast i can just change the pulley ratio of add some more layers of rubber to the friction wheel.

buildthisfixthat · « **Reply #9 on:** October 16, 2010, 03:42:19 pm »

how does the cable move the carriage ,?contious spool on to a drum ,as i have tried that method and the problem was the cable all twisted and wandered on the drum after turning a few turns so i had to loop the cable around the drive pulley ,are you using cable 2 drums 1 for forward 1 reverse ?

weisyboy · « **Reply #10 on:** October 16, 2010, 06:55:47 pm »

im gunna use 2 ropes insted of one rope and count on friction. one rope looped will sross over itself. unless your drum is groved to allow for it.

weisyboy · « **Reply #11 on:** October 17, 2010, 02:06:12 am »

i took some pics this morning not mutch to show its just rhs welded up

the main frame is done. im working out shat positions now. iv run into a few snags with that, my hilux rim is to big diamiter and dosent leave room for the otehr wheel,
so iv found a 10" pulley off the old chaff cutter it has a 50mm bore and i need 40mm so ill bush up the shaft.

it will work better anyhow,

once i get the bits i need on monday ill be able to put all the shafts on and have the head working, then i just gota put it in place lay out the track and build the carrigge.

weisyboy · « **Reply #12 on:** October 17, 2010, 02:09:23 am »

here you can see that with the split rim on there isnt enough clearance underneath. as the pulley needs to drop/raise about 70mm to tention belt or run on rim.

so i got this 250mm pulley to go on the shaft. its got a 50mm bore and the end of the shaft is 40mm so ill get them to bush it out when i get the spline cut on the end.

be putign the smaller pulley on it means i can lift it up, and put it threw the rails, witch meas i gain about 7" or more underneath.

buildthisfixthat · « **Reply #13 on:** October 18, 2010, 12:45:36 pm »

looks good interested in seeing it cut through a 10"log the blade is 36" have you accounted for tooth style,what is the kerf on the blade the less teeth ,the faster it has to turn ,more teeth more power to cut and more pressure to feed the log what tooth style is the blade ?

weisyboy · « **Reply #14 on:** October 19, 2010, 03:40:11 am »

it is 8 tooth, with 6mm wide tungsten tips with full length gullets to allow big bites. it will need to run at about 1400 rpm.

i have changed again, i found a high speed pto attachment for the tractor it runs at engine rpm. so i will fix that direct to the saw spindle and tehn drive back from there witch means i will save big $$ on pulleys and belts where i will need 1 A section not 3 B section.

if the trctor has enough power 55hp it will cut fast, especialy in pine. i should be ble to cut logs up to 14" diamiter. with a 12" cut depth.

buildthisfixthat · « **Reply #15 on:** October 23, 2010, 10:17:08 am »

any progress on the saw ??

weisyboy · « **Reply #16 on:** October 24, 2010, 12:10:22 am »

might get time this arvo, iv been busy with this work thing that keeps getting in the way.

all i gotta do is drill holes and mount the shafts up.

i managed to find a high speed pto shaft for the tractor so i can mount direct to the saw spindle.

then i need to mount a 6 spline shaft on the saw spindle. and its mobile.

weisyboy · « **Reply #17 on:** October 25, 2010, 04:32:04 am »

i drilled 2 holes this arvo. i need to roll it over and its starting to get heavier.

weisyboy · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2010, 04:14:33 am »

got the feed all hooked up.

nearly there boys.

weisyboy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2010, 03:18:28 am »

had to put a pto spline on the end of my saw shaft, thought about getting it machined on, bugger that ill just weld a length on.

but can i keep it alighned, turns out i impressed myself. perfect,

even found me some line wheels, saves the 300 bucks id have to fork out for them, EACH.

Meadows Miller · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2010, 05:19:34 am »

Gday Carl

Looking good its coming along well I would have used a pto slip clutch myself just make sure you have a rope tied to the engagement arm of the pto so you can disconnect it if you bind the sw but at the rpms your saws running and the hp yu have Ill hily doubt that will happen though Mate

Did you get the email with the setworks drawings I sent you

and I liked the obituary from the london times you sent too mate

Regards Chris

weisyboy · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2010, 05:33:17 am »

ill run it with a 55hp tractor with the pto running at about 1200rpm.

if the saw dose bind it will just stall the tractor or break.

slip clutches don't work anyhow, they either grip or never grip.

never got that email mate, dunno whats going on.

Meadows Miller · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2010, 06:03:06 am »

Ill try again messengers been playing up of late

::)and ill give you a call tom evening to see if you got them

55s plenty I use to run the 36" with a 35 fergy and had no dramas

weisyboy · « **Reply #23 on:** October 31, 2010, 06:36:18 am »

depends how fast ya wanna cut.

#2 benches i have worked have had no less than 40hp 3 phase motors, and the #1 in the mills have had over 100hp. but by the timber fly threw. you gotta run to keep up with a 4' diameter log.

weisyboy · « **Reply #24 on:** October 31, 2010, 06:37:34 am »

any idea what my feed speed should be. i was just gunna hook it up at about 60fpm and see how it went.

buildthisfixthat · « **Reply #25 on:** November 05, 2010, 09:23:36 am »

thats the hard part is to get the carrage back and foward at a variable speed ..and what are you making for head blocks ?those are tricky to make because you have to make them to hold a log and also to hold a beam or board ?

weisyboy · « **Reply #26 on:** November 06, 2010, 06:21:55 am »

i wont need head blocks fo now ill jsut work flat top trolly's at first.

im gunna set it all up and see how it cuts be hand pushing the trolley at first. tehn see how it goes,

if it runns really well i might turn it into a candain saw latter on.

got the spindle on and blade mounted so i could put on some packing blocks, will take pics tommorow.

part from that i need to make the outfeed rollers. its almost ready to move out into the padock, and have the track laid.

weisyboy · « **Reply #27 on:** November 13, 2010, 06:06:42 am »

got the packing on, so the bench is all ready to go.

got the cradle almost done, jut needs a coupla dogs.

northwoods1 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 13, 2010, 07:22:03 am »

I don't know about anyone else but I am eager to see this project come together and saw some wood

weisyboy · « **Reply #29 on:** November 13, 2010, 07:58:54 am »

i know i sure am.

i can feel it getting close now.

why are my pics so small?

beenthere · « **Reply #30 on:** November 13, 2010, 08:32:49 am »

Yes, why are you making them so small? Very hard to see them, and yours didn't use to be small....if I remember right.

weisyboy · « **Reply #31 on:** November 13, 2010, 08:37:32 am »

i haven't changed anything.

beenthere · « **Reply #32 on:** November 13, 2010, 08:52:59 am »

Yes you have.

Gone from 600 pixel size down to 80. Don't believe the FF will do that but it is on your end.

weisyboy · « **Reply #33 on:** November 13, 2010, 09:08:37 am »

ill have to have a look i haven't changed anything on my end.

weisyboy · « **Reply #34 on:** November 13, 2010, 09:13:03 am »

settings on my camera had been changed somehow . all better now.

weisyboy · « **Reply #35 on:** November 14, 2010, 01:05:34 am »

now its getting exciting.

just cam in for a smoko, will fix the track down this arvo and see will be ready for a test drive.

OFFSITE IMAGES ARE NOT ALLOWED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tyb525 · « **Reply #36 on:** November 14, 2010, 01:33:06 am »

How do those dogs work?

weisyboy · « **Reply #37 on:** November 14, 2010, 02:50:19 am »

i heated and hammered out the ends, so they are sharp, a whack with a hammer to jam them into the log and it aint gunna move.

weisyboy · « **Reply #38 on:** November 16, 2010, 02:26:41 am »

yay, still not finished

fishpharmer · « **Reply #39 on:** November 16, 2010, 02:55:32 am »

Fresh sawdust, you did great

. Your gonna have a lot of sawdust when you finish that big pile of logs.

Dang nifty log dogs you made too. You know not just anyone can make a sawmill from scratch

Have you worked out the setworks yet? You could use the old tape measure and bump setworks, but its kinda slow.

weisyboy · « **Reply #40 on:** November 16, 2010, 04:17:41 am »

measure and bump will do for now.

weisyboy · « **Reply #41 on:** November 16, 2010, 04:30:45 am »

thats not all

thats not even half the pine logs, then iv got about twie that amount again of hardwood, but there for the lucas.

anyone know if you can still buy flat canvas belts?

weisyboy · « **Reply #42 on:** November 16, 2010, 04:33:54 am »

Quote

Dang nifty log dogs you made too. You know not just anyone can make a sawmill from scratch

thanks mate, im not the first and im sure i wont be the last. when you cant afford to buy something then ya just gotta build it.

Meadows Miller · « **Reply #43 on:** November 16, 2010, 06:39:38 am »

Gday

Another trick you could use mate is to make nicks into the dog rails at the distances from the saw for your cant sizes a couple of flat top carriages i have used i the past had them and it made it quick n easy to get a accurate 3 sided cant with 3 wing boards out n down to the bench Mate

Regards Chris

terrifictimbersllc · « **Reply #44 on:** November 16, 2010, 06:56:47 am »

pretty amazing I get stumped just figgering how to make some fake peterson water bottles

weisyboy · « **Reply #45 on:** November 16, 2010, 07:21:04 am »

peterson watter bottles are just a 20l drum, with a tap on the bottom.

paul case · « **Reply #46 on:** November 16, 2010, 08:27:51 am »

looking good weisy. with that tractor sitting there it kinda reminds me of a belsaw.
that is some kind of a wicked blade though. with the fewer number of teeth ,does it slow down the feed rate?pc

northwoods1 · « **Reply #47 on:** November 16, 2010, 08:42:42 am »

I sure like the simplicity of it. That cant looks nice wonder how much production you could get with something like that? I noticed you have your pine logs stickered that must make them last longer hey?

tyb525 · « **Reply #48 on:** November 16, 2010, 12:54:20 pm »

Yeah you can still buy flat belts, at least over here anyways.

weisyboy · « **Reply #49 on:** November 16, 2010, 09:53:18 pm »

gday

the balde is meant for high speed, low hp, and dosen not need retention ever iv got 8 of them different sizes.

it cuts fast even at half the required pto speed,

found a mob that sells flat bets today.

weisyboy · « **Reply #50 on:** November 16, 2010, 09:54:11 pm »

the spacers is so i can get the forks between them, never thaught but it probly dose make them last longer, 12 months an they are rotten.

weisyboy · « **Reply #51 on:** November 19, 2010, 12:02:06 am »

looking better every day.

even cut some square boards today.

customsawyer · « **Reply #52 on:** November 19, 2010, 03:24:58 am »

Looking good.

Hilltop366 · « **Reply #53 on:** November 19, 2010, 08:33:16 am »

Square boards !! Now your just showin off

All kidding aside

buildthisfixthat · « **Reply #54 on:** November 26, 2010, 07:39:00 pm »

hey weisy waiting for a second wind to power the carriage have you sawed any more lumber with the bench saw?

weisyboy · « **Reply #55 on:** November 26, 2010, 10:56:37 pm »

put the high speed pto on the tractor, the bloudy thing spinns backwards.

will get down there again today and do some more,

i have been offered a motor from a bedford truck to power it, so might go that way yet.

weisyboy · « **Reply #56 on:** November 27, 2010, 01:19:20 am »

heres a vid for you

beenthere · « **Reply #57 on:** November 27, 2010, 11:17:19 am »

Sure helps to see what you have in mind, to see the video.

I can say it sure beats using a pit saw to break down a log.

Not much to protect your eyes when facing that saw blade, nor to keep your arm out of the blade. Other than that, you will soon develop some stronger leg muscles to push that carriage uphill easier.

But I suspect this is just the beginning of your mods to make it better.

Wish you well, and whole.

sgschwend · « **Reply #58 on:** November 27, 2010, 11:25:27 am »

Weisyboy, does that mean you will have the time to make a slabbing video?

I will be setting up the Lucas Slabber in about 2 weeks.

That would be great!

paul case · « **Reply #59 on:** November 27, 2010, 12:48:57 pm »

good video weisy,
that kind of work will make an old man out of ya. the manual feed and log turning seems like it takes some time but even with hydraulic turning capabilities and elec forward and reverse on many bandmills it still takes an everage of 5 to 7 minutes to saw out a 7x9 10' tie with 2 boards on each side. your set up will get better the longer you use it and with some modification it will get easier on you.
good thread and good work. pc

weisyboy · « **Reply #60 on:** November 27, 2010, 05:32:37 pm »

i wont be pushen it for long,

i fixed the binding yesterday, am hoping to get the feed cable on today, and will get 2 pulleys threw the week, to hook up the power feed.

will also change the dogs and that after that, i dint wanna spend to mutch time on the trolly till i new it was gunna work properly.

paul case · « **Reply #61 on:** November 27, 2010, 11:27:44 pm »

thats how i work too, conquer 1 thing at a time.
the trouble you have pushing in the cut has had me thinking on my drive home.is that from saw chips on the track or is there another hang up? if it is chips it may make a difference in the cut. a simple wiper of some kind would be an easy fix for that. the old circle mill that i had ran a 2x4 in a stake pocket on the trolley that drug on the track to keep that stuff knocked off. pc

weisyboy · « **Reply #62 on:** November 27, 2010, 11:36:51 pm »

the binding was caused by the cradle pitching towards the blade with the force of the blade cutting,

i put 2x 6x2s on the back side and it went threw no trouble,

i put the bottom gaurd on cos it was covering the rails in chips, nice that you are thinking about my probelms.

paul case · « **Reply #63 on:** November 27, 2010, 11:39:07 pm »

sometimes too much thinking and not enough solving though. pc

weisyboy · « **Reply #64 on:** November 27, 2010, 11:57:53 pm »

im guilty of not enough thinking and to mutch doing, turns out you have to do a lot of things twice.

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #65 on:** November 28, 2010, 07:48:50 am »

Very nice Weasy,what do you use to sharpen those carbide bits.Do hope you told the railroad your using a section of their rails.Glad your putting on a power feed that pushing gets old fast.Frank C.

weisyboy · « **Reply #66 on:** November 28, 2010, 08:16:57 am »

sharpened with a diamond stone in an angle grinder or the mini grinder from the lucas.

we'v got heaps of that railway line, 50 20' lengths or more, used to make cattle grids outa it.

buildthisfixthat · « **Reply #67 on:** November 28, 2010, 10:16:21 am »

great clip of the saw ,about the cable feed i know you will be using a drum , i am using a drive pulley on a gear box that the cable loops around .however the pulley slips on the cable ? any ideas how to prevent the cable from slip on the pulley

tyb525 · « **Reply #68 on:** November 28, 2010, 11:06:34 am »

buildthisfixthat,

Have you tried putting more wraps of cable around the pully?

weisyboy · « **Reply #69 on:** November 28, 2010, 04:05:31 pm »

more wraps on the drum or rough it up with sompthing to give it more grip, also more or less tention will help, gota find the right amount.

buildthisfixthat · « **Reply #70 on:** November 28, 2010, 05:50:19 pm »

weisy that railway iron in the us is worth about five large 5,000±

my cable drive is a single belt pulley i was going to add some welds on the pulley but dont want to chew the cable its tight but still slips alot what do you think about rubber wheel instead ?

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #71 on:** November 28, 2010, 08:27:49 pm »

Build&fix,are you talking about a flat pulley for your cable? Too heavy a cable on too small a pulley will tend to slip.Say if you had 3/8 cable on a 10 or 12" drum three or four wraps slippage shouldn't be a problem.I also like to have a heavy spring on one end to keep the cable tensioned. Frank C.

weisyboy · « **Reply #72 on:** November 28, 2010, 10:14:00 pm »

your cable may be to tight,

you drum may be to small.

a rubber tyre on your drum will help but wont last long.

what is the size of your drum?

buildthisfixthat · « **Reply #73 on:** November 28, 2010, 10:14:13 pm »

frank thanks for youre help you are correct it is what i have is a 3" v belt pulley with 1/2 cable i tried a flat 3"x 4"wide and the problem with that was after a few turns the cable was walking on top of itself and binding i tried 1 wrap and 2 wraps ,so i put the v belt pulley back ,i have some 3"semi hard rubber wheels with steel centers like used on a truck scale i can weld a large washer on make like a pulley ,think that would work?im restricted to a small pulley and it be some doing to downsize the cable

weisyboy · « **Reply #74 on:** November 28, 2010, 10:17:37 pm »

i say give it a try, it wont cost mutch and may solve your problem.

buildthisfixthat · « **Reply #75 on:** November 28, 2010, 10:48:22 pm »

yes i will give that a try see what happens thanks weisy

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Author Topic: # 1 saw bench. build (Read 6873 times)