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Author Topic: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars  (Read 1238 times)

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davefrommd

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3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« on: November 13, 2003, 05:14:42 pm »
I have been cutting some large trees lately to where my stihl 440 with a 24" bar wasn't long enough to where I had to cut both sides. I have two  57cc mccullochs one with a 20" bar and  the another a 16" bar which came with it. I was thinking on replacing the 20" mcculloch with a 28" bar as it sais in the specifications it will hold a 16" to 28" bar. I would like to keep the stihl original equipment but have thought of putting the 28" bar on that if I didn't on the mcculloch. Do you think a 16" bar on the mcculloch is kind of small for a 57cc engine. Maybe someone could help me sort out which bar would they put on which saw. I also may end up buying a light 16" chainsaw later on as the mcculloch is a heavy saw. I look forward to your comments and appreciate your help.  Thnks. Dave

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Offline Kevin

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2003, 05:36:52 pm »
There's no question in my mind that the 440 should take the 28"bar.
A "57cc saw should run an 18" or  20" bar.
I run an 18" bar on my 262 Husqvarna, that's my main logging saw.
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Offline SasquatchMan

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2003, 05:41:21 pm »
Is 16 inches too short for 57 cc?  Well, only if you're cutting 18" stuff!   You'll probably find that 57cc is a bit small for a 28" bar but I dunno.  I run 16 inches on my 290 (which is about 57 cc) but I don't run into anything I can't cut with that...
The quick answer is, if you have the bucks, you'll find that your 440 will outcut the mcculloughs with a big bar, so that's what you should do.  

Personally, I avoided the "light" saws (like an ms260 or even a Husky 55 or 353) - I like a substantial feeling machine.  Could be that I'm stronger in the arms and back than the average joe (my Makita skilsaw weighs 15 pounds, so a 13 pound chainsaw doesn't ever tire me out)...  Better to have extra power when you need it than to bog a tiny saw down half the time.
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Offline Mark M

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2003, 08:39:25 pm »
I've always used a 16" bar on my Jonsereds 630 which is about 65 cc's. I cut up over 100 cords of firewood with that combination and it worked well. I finally had to get a new bar so I decided to go with an 18" because the trees in ND are bigger that those in MN (there just ain't as many) ;). I like to use as short a bar as possible because it takes less power to turn the chain. I would put the 24" bar on the 440, I have a 460 with a 24" and it's a cutting son of a gun. I use a 20" on the 066 and that's cuts even better.

Mark
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Offline qatanlison

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2003, 03:33:18 am »
16" is not too short, for any saw...
I occationally run a 15" on my Husky 385 (85cc), and do I have to say it rips? I've used my 262Xp with a 24" to buck big oak and it did the work nicely - not to compare with the same bar-length on the 385 obviously... ;)


/Ola
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Offline Gus

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2003, 10:52:16 am »
The 440 will handle the 28" bar fine. Don't know about the 10-10's. Personally I'd never put a bar that long on a saw unless I was consistantly cutting tree's, in a production setting, over 32". I'd just start my cut on the opposite side and pull the saw towards the operator until your in deep. To many teeth to sharpen. ;D Just an opinion.
Gus
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Offline carhartted

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2003, 11:45:34 am »
I run a 16in bar on my 272xp, 72cc, it cuts really good with that combo.  I also have a 24in bar but hardley ever run it since the trees in my area are not that big.  Plus if a ever hit dirt  ::) there are that many more teeth to file.

Jonathan
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Offline IndyIan

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2003, 01:49:06 pm »
Dave,
I run the same setup as carhartted.  372 with a 16" bar.  This was recommended to me for safety reasons and I'm happy with it.  
I use the 372 for everything and limbing is easier and safer with a short bar.  I do fall a few trees over 16" that I need to do two back cuts with but with a short bar the plunge cuts are easy to do.  
Also I've learned how to "overbuck" so I can buck 20" or so logs with one cut.  I think the overbuck technique is used to fall trees sometimes but I've never read anywhere that it's recommended.  
IMHO less bar = less teeth, less weight, less danger and faster cutting speed.

Ian
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Offline qatanlison

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2003, 05:24:13 am »
IndyIan,

"Overbucking", is that the same as reaming? If not, would you mind a brief description?

Always interested in saw-techniques...


/Ola
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davefrommd

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2003, 08:41:27 pm »
Thanks everyone for your  help. I have lots to think about as there are many points of views to consider. This is really a great forum to get some good information. Thanks again.  Dave
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Offline IndyIan

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2003, 06:55:15 pm »
Ola,
What I call overbucking, is to start the cut on the far side of the log with the saw nearly vertical.  Dig the log dog in and cut in until the saw is vertical.  This cut makes the log "narrower" so you can finish bucking with the shorter bar.
In practice this done in one continuous cut, no need to let off the throttle.
I was doing this yesterday on some 18-20" sugar maple, it was kind of neat having the chips float down around me when the saw was vertical 8)  Kinda itchy though when went down the back of my shirt :)  Good fun!

Ian

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Offline qatanlison

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2003, 12:02:59 am »
Ian,

I didn't know it was called overbucking, as a Swede I always tend to have a bar too short, so I've always used this technique - not knowing it had a name...
Lately I've been doing some research on how you work in the US and also got me some longer bars. Have you tried reaming a log with top-bind? It's a nice technique allowing you to buck without wedges and without having to move the saw around the trunk a lot.

Later,

Ola
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Offline IndyIan

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2003, 06:20:09 am »
Ola,
I thought you'd already be "overbucking".  I was looking at some stumps on my land and I think one of the loggers used this to do the back cuts on the bigger trees.  Most of the time it left a triangle hinge with lots of fibre pull though...

Now you'll have to explain reaming to me.  By top-bind you mean the saw would get pinched if tried to saw from top to bottom with one cut?

I've seen a pro do some bucking in a top bind log with one continuous cut.  He did the over bucking, cut a few inches on the top, used the tip down the side, and then plunged into the bottom and cut upwards to finish.  

The log was nearly on the ground and he must've used the top of the tip to plunge but he was using full throttle and it was red pine so he didn't have any problems.  I didn't know enough at the time to ask him what he was doing.  He sure bucked it fast though and no fibre pull in either log.  I don't think I'll try it that way though!

Ian
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Offline qatanlison

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2003, 11:50:40 pm »
Ian,

I'll have to welcome you to the world of reaming then, 'cos when you've tried it - you probably wont use any other technique...

First of all I'd recommend a bar long enough to reach through the trunk. Start the cut, full throttle, from the top. Pay close attention to the kerf - when it starts to close, pull out the saw, still with full throttle and plunge it back in making a bore-cut at the same place you withdraw the saw. Continue to saw downward until you feel the pinch again and repeat as above. Soon the kerf will be completely closed at the top and no more binding will occur and you can cut the rest all way down. Bear in mind that reaming takes a quite powerfull saw to do it efficiently, some 5hp at least with a 18" bar - 'cos when the saw is plunged back into the kerf for the bore-cut, It'll saw with both sides of the bar making it neither push nor pull untill the pinched kerf is widened and the saw will start to pull - BE READY FOR IT! Also, as with all boring - Be sure to insert the bar with the bottom half of the bar-tip to avoid kick-back. Also, to remedy the triangular hinge you mention, do an insertion into the face cut, boring out the core of the trunk, make sure though that the hinge is bit more beefy to compensate for the lack of wood in the middle.

I've done almost any cutting there is with a bar too short so if there are any more situations you wonder about please let me know as I've probably experienced it...

Regards,

Ola
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Offline IndyIan

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2003, 05:24:13 pm »
Ola,
I'll have to try that out.  I guess its mostly a small softwood technique?  I can't really imagine using it in 16" of hardwood but I'm pretty much a rookie.

Right now I'm doing most of my cutting on maple tops and taking things pretty slow.  I'm not to worried about speed, just trying not to pinch or drop the logs onto my foot! ::)

Soon though I'm going to get into a bunch of 12-14" cedar for siding so I'll get lots of practice!   8)

Ian
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Offline qatanlison

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Re: 3 chainsaws, want 3 different bars
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2003, 10:28:55 pm »
Ian,

Reaming is applicable to any size of trunk, if you have the bar for it, that is... I recently bucked a 28" fir which called for a lot of reaming. I learnt the technique from Gerry Beranek, the author of "Fudamentals of general tree-work", if you want the ultimate book of tree-working, climbing, falling, bucking check it out on www.atreestory.com
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