Reforesting a deep East TX Tract with Longleaf Pine – Opinions Needed

[Mike R]

I’m a new to the Board and the forestry information discussed here is great.  I would like opinions on reforesting a tract with longleaf pine. I have recently purchased a 100 acre tract that’s mostly cutover (it needs replanting including a clear cut). The tract is located in the deep East Texas Pineywoods, has fine sandy loam soil (a “high and dry” tract), and has a Longleaf (LL) site index of 82 and a Loblolly (LOB) site index of 79.

Regarding LL advantages, it appears that government cost share money is more readily available for LL than LOB. Also due to down trends in the paper and housing sector, pulpwood and saw timber pricing looks weak long term. Since the TX Gulf Coast is routinely hit by hurricanes, it seems that poles would be a good market (with LL being a good fit). Plus I wanted to manage the tract for wildlife and LL opens up the tract.

On the disadvantages, it appears that LL is difficult to establish (I would need to use containerized seedlings and wild land machine planting due to heat and possible drought), controlled burns would be difficult (I likely would have to use herbicides), and it’s a longer payday compared to LOB (which I probably will not see since I’m in my mid 50’s but my grandkids will thank me). Also government cost share money will introduce some management restrictions on the property.

My preference at this point is Loblolly but it appears that there’s a lot of interest with Longleaf reforestation. Opinions are appreciated.

Mike

[WH_Conley]

Welcome to the forum Mike. I can't help you any, there will be someone along who can shortly.

[WDH]

Our resident East Texas forester will probably chime in soon.  Loblolly is easier to manage than longleaf.  It is easier to establish, grows much faster, and is more resistant to ice.  The density and quality of the wood is better with longleaf, but longleaf needs fire to thrive.  

A lot of the longleaf restoration is a romantic attempt to return to the old ecosystem, but we have brainwashed the public for decades that fire in the forest is a bad thing.  Plus, many longleaf restoration projects struggle because the longleaf is being planted on sites that it is not adapted to.  I have seen some people re-plant 3 times in order to get a stand.

  

[Woodwalker]

Our resident East Texas forester will probably chime in soon. 

Our resident East Texas forester will probably chime in soon.   



 

 

Going to have to wait for him to wake up tomorrow, it's past his bedtime now.
Welcome to the form  Mike, You'll get a lot of info here.

[RynSmith]

Well, I'd vote for longleaf, but that's a personal preference.  If you're really looking for money, I'd guess loblolly would beat it out.  Here's a link from the USFS about longleaf: http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/Volume_1/pinus/palustris.htm

I'm thinking that herbicide can replace fire partly, but not wholly...  Is there a possiblilty that county, state or feds would be inetersted in burning your place along with theirs?

[Buck]

Welcome!

[Texas Ranger]

snore, snort, ahem, who rang my bell?

Welcome, Mike, what part of East Texas?  I'm in Livingston.  Anyway, there is a plantation of Sonderegger Pine. 

http://www.tytyga.com/product/Sonderegger+Pine+Tree

over towards the Jasper County line, it is a cross between Loblolly and Longleaf, the best characteristic is that it wont stay in the grass mode like Longleaf, but gets started quicker with some of the better characteristics of Longleaf.  This web site is some what expensive for a major planting, compared to Lob, but if  you look around I think you can find a better source.  I have looked at the plantation (some 12 acres) and found the stems to look like longleaf candled out about 6 foot tall, and 3 years old, not fast for lob, but good for longleaf.

Either way you will be starting into the timber business, and might be something to look into.  I will do some research tomorrow and see if I can come up with a name and number of the plantation and source of his seedlings.

By the I am Don Staples, Staples Forestry.

[Mike R]

Thanks for the welcome and everyone’s feedback.

RynSmith – the tract is an irregular shape that borders a large timber tract and two historical homesteads. With some firebreaks, it probably can be burned. However, the risk seems significant. It’s a good question that I’ll ask when I talk with the regional forester. Regarding the “money” decision, I’m neutral (loblolly thinnings produce little income these days and longleaf may actually be more profitable long term). My main goal is to not have to replant and loblolly appears to be less risky.

Texas Ranger – The tract is located just north of Chester (near the Barnes Pasture). I’ve haven’t consider hybrids, so thanks for the follow-up. Hopefully you can sleep late tomorrow.

Mike

[fishpharmer]

Welcome to the forum Mike. 

 

[Woolywolf]

From your description of the soil, it sounds like longleaf would be the best option.  Although loblolly may start-off faster in terms of growth, longleaf will often surpass it on those "high and dry" sandy tracts.  My grandma owns a high and dry sandy tract that was replanted to loblolly in the Sandhills of South Carolina about ten years ago.  That was a big mistake.  The whole stand has fusiform rust now.  That's another advantage of longleaf: it's the least susceptible pine to get fusiform (not sure if that's a problem in Texas?).  She also has another tract in the sandhills that volunteered up in mostly loblolly and slash pine about 25 years ago after a farm was abandoned.  On the driest part of the tract a few longleaf volunteered up as well, and I noticed that they have a larger diameter and their needles look darker green and healthier compared to the loblolly pines around them.  Anyway, the plan is to clear-cut that tract this winter (hopefully, the pulpwood prices will go sky high again this winter), then herbicide in the spring/summer to kill hardwood competition, then site prep burn in the fall to kill hardwood and pines, then replant in longleaf next winter.  According to the county forester, that should cost around $125 per acre with cost share.

Have you thought about pinestraw raking?  In SC, their is a big market for longleaf pinestraw.  Many landowners are bringing around $100 per acre every two to three from having their pinestraw raked, and you can start raking when a stand is 10 to 12 years old.   


         

[Texas Ranger]

Mike

There are longleaf all over that area, so it should be adequate for growth.  There is, or used to be, a long leaf stand preserved just off 287 near Barnes.

I have not come up with a name or location of the cross stand, but still working on it.

[Rocky_Ranger]

TR, ya ever hear from Charlie?

[Magicman]

Welcome Mike to the Forestry Forum.   I planted only ½ acre of Longleaf Pine.  This was done for nostalgic reasons only.  There is a thread about it here that may answer a few questions:     http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,41220.0.html   Good luck, and keep asking questions.   

[Mike R]

I actually researched financial comparisons of loblolly versus longleaf plantations on a good site. I won’t go through all the boring financial details, but the bottom line was that both are equal in an investment return if the longleaf tract is straw harvested. I was surprised since longleaf has a longer rotation. However, the pine straw revenues boost the early year cash flows and make for a better return (compared to no pine straw raking). I’m not sure who in deep East Texas would rake straw, but perhaps someone’s doing this.

Texas Ranger, thanks for the follow-up on the hybrid option, but I’ll stick with the basic seedling stock. I would have an interest in looking at the tract.

Since my plan is based on using government cost share money, it may make sense to base my original application on Loblolly. If I don’t have the “points” (being competitive enough to win funding), then Longleaf could be a fall back option (I’m pretty sure that I would qualify using this option).

Thanks to all for your comments. It’s good to be part of the Forestry Forum.

Mike

[Magicman]

Pinestraw harvesting is very labor intensive and also removes nutrients that could be available for your trees.  Also my NCRS guy says that it is not allowed when cost share money is involved.   Just one more item to investigate while you are collecting data and making decisions.

[Texas Ranger]

Rocky, about 2-3 times a week, some times more, he is moving a little south.  He is actively involved in writing Arkansas state management plans, and getting fairly good money for it, for a new kid.

I'll tell him you asked.

[WDH]

Like Lynn (Magicman) said, in Georgia, the NRCS does not allow pine straw harvesting on CRP longleaf plantations.  Also, as pointed out, nutrient loss from strawing will necessitate fertilization, so add that about every five years once strawing commences to your economic model. 

In my observations and experience, the financial yield on loblolly is better, just not as nostalgic/romantic as with longleaf. 

[Texas Ranger]

Texas/Louisiana Longleaf Task Force – Todd Nightingale, Texas Forest Service, District Forester III, Hudson, TX

Longleaf pine (Pinus palustris) is an amazing tree species that prior to European settlement once dominated many forest landscapes throughout the south.  There recently has been resurgence in interest in this forest type as it creates the open and park like forests many landowners seek for their own properties.  Beyond the beautiful aesthetics this forest type creates it also is favorable for timber products, wildlife habitat, and recreational values. 

Earlier this year a multi-stakeholder effort to support longleaf pine restoration was initiated by the U.S. Forest Service and Texas Forest Service. Both agencies agreed to oversee a multi-organizational effort to describe the collective and ongoing longleaf restoration activities in the East Texas area. An immediate action following this initial meeting was to include Louisiana partners in this effort. The Texas-Louisiana Longleaf Pine Task Force is comprised of natural resource professionals, agencies, partners and landowners that share the common goal of increasing acreage in longleaf pine. The primary focus has been to accelerate longleaf ecosystem restoration on private forestlands adjacent to public lands, and to support the larger, range-wide America’s Longleaf Restoration Initiative, whose purpose is to increase longleaf pine acreage from 3.4 to 8.0 million acres in the next 15 years. A Range-wide Conservation Plan for Longleaf Pine serves to guide actions and strategies of the Initiative.

Since the first meeting there has been tremendous interest in coordinating efforts and reporting on successes that have occurred in this multi-state effort.  Most recently a business meeting and field tour was held on September 30th in DeRidder, Lousiana to showcase mature timber management of longleaf pine by a private landowner.  This event was followed by a natural resource professional and landowner field tour at Temple-Inland’s Scrappin Valley and neighboring USFS and private landowner properties.  This event highlighted coordinated efforts to expand longleaf pine on private, federal and industrial partners to truly manage on a landscape scale which has greater benefits than individual “islands” of management.

As the task force is in its infancy, it is now working to coordinate efforts to define more clearly their specific goals and what portion of the 8.0 million acre vision of the America’s Longleaf Restoration Initiative they want to address.  This will include efforts to maintain current stands, improve marginal stands of longleaf pine and establish new stands primarily on private landowner properties.  Currently there are mapping efforts to determine the best sites to manage longleaf pine as well as to facilitate ongoing management and reforestation implementation.  If you are interested in learning more or participating in the taskforce please visit http://www.txlalongleaf.org/ for contact information and upcoming events.

[RynSmith]

 

[WDH]

This week I attended a conference on managing and growing longleaf pine hosted by the Longleaf Alliance (www.longleafalliance.org).  It was excellent.  I have some information on financial yields and pine straw potential.  Good stands of planted longleaf that are managed for pine straw production from crown closure at about age 8 until first thinning at about age 20 can yield 200 bales of pine straw/acre/year on 2 out of every three years in that interval of time.  After a first thinning, with time for recovery of a couple of years, the yields are even a little higher.  With pine straw as a product, the financials are reasonably competitive.