Using rain as our water supply

[Qweaver]

We have now been using rain as our water supply for two years and we find it to be a complete sucess.  We have 3800 gallons of storage in 3 tanks.  We have one concrete tank underground and two plastic tanks above ground.  The above ground tanks do get some ice formation around the sides and tops  but we have never run out of water.  This has been an abnormally dry summer and we have always had at least 2000 gallons.  We had a good rain last night and all 3 tanks are full again.  I am filtering the water down to 5 microns but we have not installed the UV treatment yet so we are drinking bottled water but use the rain water for cooking, coffee, tea, dish washing, etc. 
I'd like to freeze-proof the above ground tanks, but I'm not sure how to do that. 

We do practice water conservation but my wife regularly takes 45 gal tub baths unless the water level is low (which it has not been)  We do have a well with good water but little volume.  It is 300' from the house and would require a lot of trenching to get it here.  I'm not sure that I want to go to the trouble of getting it plumbed and wired.
Anyone else using rainwater?

[doctorb]

Interesting!  I don't do it myself, but I think they routinely do in Bermuda.  Are you using just your roof to "catch" the water?  Any other catchment system?  Is the surface of the roof specifically made to do this, or is it regular metal or shingles?

Doctorb

[Ianab]

Grew up with rainwater supply for the house. I think it depends on what your local rainfall is like. In our area we would get about 80" a year, and summer droughts were pretty rare (and no freezing issues). So it worked well. Because it is common-place there are also companies here that will deliver tanker loads of water if you run short.

Never worried about filtering, any roof gunge seems to settle to the bottom of the tank. Just DON'T stir up the tank unless you intend to empty and clean it out.

Ian

[Qweaver]

 Are you using just your roof to "catch" the water?  Any other catchment system?  Is the surface of the roof specifically made to do this, or is it regular metal or shingles?

Doctorb

I'm using about 1/3 of my metal roofs to fill the tanks.  I was going to pipe up more but we don't seem to need them.  If we had kids at home or frequent overnight guests or entertained a lot, I might have to increase input.  

[okie]

Been thinking hard about doing this. We moved a temporary trailer to our land to live in while we work on the house. Thought about hauling water in until the house is done and installing a catchment tank. Nearest neighbors well is 400' deep and not fit to drink. Poor volume  as well. Would cost me a bit more that 5 grand to drill and pump the same type of well as he has. Doesn't seem like a good idea. Do you have any idea how much water you use a week or month? our current water bill doesn't specify.

[Bill]

I'm seeing ads for camping water filters that filter down to around 1 micron ( and recall something about the Romans throwing a silver coin in their cisterns to kill stuff that grows - even some current medical stuff - bandages for burn patients ( ? ) now have some silver I believe ).

Do you have any problems with things growing in your tanks ?

Just curious - around here there's soot/pollen from the sky covering your once clean car on some mornings .

[SwampDonkey]

These old farm houses had cisterns in the basements and drew drinking water from springs. My grandmother's house was spring fed, only dug a well years later after grandmother had passed away and my brother moved in. The same spring fed a second house and the barn trough, which always ran until it froze up in winter. That 4 foot deep white cedar wooden trough froze solid to.

[Ianab]

Just curious - around here there's soot/pollen from the sky covering your once clean car on some mornings .

Like I said, DON'T stir the tank. That random dust etc settles as a layer of mud in the bottom. There should be no light in the tank, so nothing really grows, and you dont have ducks and deer crapping in there to introduce dangerous bacteria.

An underbench water filter for your drinking might be a good idea, but having a shower in that tank water, no worries.

Ian

[doctorb]

Bill-
You are right about the silver issue.  Silver nitrate has been used for years to cauterize and help sterilize granulation tissue on non-healing wounds.  Many available wound supplies are now impregnated with silver and are touted to prevent or help with wound infection.  The science is there to confirm some effectiveness, but silver may not be equally effective against different types of bacteria.  Didn't know that the Romans had a purpose with the coins in their wishing wells!  Thanks.
Doctorb

[jim king]

We used rain as a water supply for several years , two cisterns below ground and an elevated tank. 

There are still about 200,000 people in town using rain water as there is no municipal water in half the town.

[mtngun]

Rainwater here.   We get 22" - 24" precip annually, but a good chunk of that is the frozen kind that cannot be collected.    Nonetheless,  I have never run out of water, and can collect more than I can store.

Currently have a 1200 gallon underground cistern, hope to add another cistern or two when $$$$$ allows.

House water goes through a carbon filter and UV light.   

After a long dry spell, the roof will have dust, pollen, bird poop, etc..    So let it wash off for a good 30 minutes before diverting the water into the cistern.

In cool weather, the roof will have ashes and creosote.   Once again, let it wash off for a good 30 minutes before diverting into the cistern.

Even if you don't want to drink it (tastes better than hard well water) rainwater can be used for irrigation, livestock, flushing toilet, etc., reducing the load on your well.

The water table here is 1000 feet deep.     Wells are expensive, unreliable, and the water quality is terrible.     My rainwater system has worked out well.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Yeah been using tank water here for the last 29 years Mate Got abot 9000gal of storage and don't bother with filters either  Rainfall here is around the 22" pa and we have only had to cart water afew times during the drought 

Regards Chris

[Qweaver]

In the two years that we've been using rainwater we only topped up the tank once.  We only had one 1200 gal tank at that time and we were down to 500 gal and I ran a garden hose from cousin Rodney's house.  Two days later it rained all day.    Now that we have 3 tanks...never a problem. 
When we lived in Aus. we had a friend that lived west of the Blue mountains where it was really dry.  He captured what little rain that they got and he also had a wind powered well that he used to fill his tanks.  It was really poor tasting water tho'.  Safe but hold your nose when you drank it.

[SwampDonkey]

Sulfur I suspect. The folk's water has sulfur. Up here all I notice is lime. You boil a pot on the stove, say some eggs and there is lime on the surface when your done boiling the eggs.

[pigman]

We are using rain water, or as we say, cistern water. We have a 5,500 gal underground concrete cistern. When the four kids were home and we had a long dry spell, I would have to haul a load of water sometimes. Since the kids have left, the cistern never gets below half. We do catch off a 40 X 60 ft building besides the house. A little bird crap and dust just makes the water have a little flavor.   As Ian said, in total darkness nothing green grows.

[Part_Timer]

If you set an Aqua Rain filter on the counter you can then drink the water. 

[Don_Papenburg]

I put in a 6000 gallon fiberglas tank  just catching off one side of the house right now .  But i emptied it when we were spraying this year .  I need to get the 10000 gallon tank in the ground.

[northwoods1]

I'm all for utilizing rain water like everyone here is doing but I'm wondering how much of a factor is the cost/difficulty of drilling a well in you area play into the decision to go this route? Aren't underground storage tanks quite expensive to initially install? I was looking for some type of freeze proof water storage that I could pump to from a well using solar, but the cost of setting the tank up was expensive.

[Qweaver]

I'm all for utilizing rain water like everyone here is doing but I'm wondering how much of a factor is the cost/difficulty of drilling a well in you area play into the decision to go this route? Aren't underground storage tanks quite expensive to initially install? I was looking for some type of freeze proof water storage that I could pump to from a well using solar, but the cost of setting the tank up was expensive.

In answer:  A 1300 gal concrete cistern is $760 delivered and set in the hole. Add another $100 for pipe, fittings and two coats of sealant. I have a backhoe so the hole is "free".  Shallow wells have good quality water here but don't produce much.  Deep holes (100' +) have plenty of water but it is terrible.  City water is $24 a month for 1500 gal and $15 for each additional 1000 gal but we don't like the water.  We would also have had to run 600' of water line.  We had a really cold winter last year and our above ground tanks formed about 6" of ice around the tank but it never froze up so that we were out of water.  We are adding another 1300 gal in-ground tank soon and I'll move one of my plastic tanks down to my mill for washing logs. With tanks, a pump, bladder tank, filters and all of the hardware, I have about $3000 in my system. City water would have been cheaper in the short term and it will take a long time for payback... But we love the soft, sweet, untreated rainwater.

[bill m]

Here in the northeast most of the rainwater is to acidic from midwest factories and is unusable except for maybe watering lawns.

[pigman]

My prefab 5500 gal underground concrete water tank was $2200 set in the hole I dug. That was in 1992.  Pipe and fittings were less than $100. I already had the pump.

[clww]

I've been seriously considering this rainwater collection for use when we get our cabin finished up in the mountains in Highland County, VA.

[mad murdock]

If you can collect the water and store it at elevation above your house you are really ahead of the game.  Like Swamp Donkey said about spring fed homes, our is spring fed, the intake and spring box (4x8x4'high), is about 60' above the house, and we have between 25 and 30 psi with gravity.
I think you can figure about 1psi per every 16" of drop? somewhere around that figure.  When power is out, we keep on going like nothing has happened, just crank up a few hurricane lanterns and everyone keeps a flashlight handy, (usually happens for about 3 days to 1 week a year).  We run a generator to keep the freezer and fridge from spoiling, but the spring water is so nice and sweet, compaired to the artesian well water we have, it definately is more mineraly tasting. We have been blessed to have 2 water sources that do not require power to get to where we need it.
If you have the elevation, it is well worth it to try to get the water above you.

[Holmes]

 For your information 28" of water equals 1 pound of pressure.  Holmes

[Peach James]

Holmes is just about bang on with the 28"= 1PSI, and whoever suggested silver nitrate is probably empty of poop...it's a very effective laxitive, as any good navy type who has stood evaporator watches knows .

I have Co-op water here.  125 houses fed off a small stream.  We're chlorinated, as secondary, with UV as primary.  The water is really good soft water, the only issue is the first fall rains always result in tannin in the water, changing the colour to close to that of the trees.  If I lived in one of the local houses without water, cistern is the way to go if a well wasn't drilled already on the property.  I've heard of 600 ft deep wells around here, to meet the minimum water flow rates (.75 gal/min)


James Powell

[sandhills]

Peach James, where are you from?

[SwampDonkey]

I'd never drink cistern water, it was only ever used around here for washing. All these old homes had them. Always a mouse or rat floating in them.  Had hand pumps or piped from spring for drinking water.

[mad murdock]

Thanks for the correction on the head/psi thing.  I could not remember the correct figure, the only thing I do know is that gravity never goes out, like the power does, and it sure is easy on the pocketbook.

[pigman]

I'd never drink cistern water... Always a mouse or rat floating in them. 

When we find a rat or mouse in the water , we just make soup.

[Handy Andy]

 I grew up on cistern water. Hate the taste of chlorine.  Been considering putting in a cistern.  These large tanks you guys are installing, are they plastic,  concrete or what? Figured if you put in a large concrete tank, you'd have to build it from scratch.  The old cistern at the farm was a slab of concrete in a hole, with brick laid up to near ground height, and then a slab on top sloped so water ran off with a cistern pump in the center.  Had a chain of cups that you cranked and water came out a spout. My dad laid a pipe in off the bottom to the house and they used a pump to bring it into the house.  When the power was out we cranked the cistern pump and brought the water in the house in a bucket.

[SwampDonkey]

Cistern water is rain water off the roof, piped into a holding tank. I've never seen it used for drinking, and wouldn't care to partake in it.

[Peach James]

Sandhills, I'd tell you but then, I'd have to say "stop" again

(being Canadian Forces, that's all we were allowed to do...say "stop" again...not so much now

I hope I got the profile edited this time to show- if not,
Shirley BC, Canada.  About 25 miles west of Victoria, BC.

(and if not, I'll try again...nothing like sucess to motivate a person!)

[Qweaver]

Cistern water is rain water off the roof, piped into a holding tank. I've never seen it used for drinking, and wouldn't care to partake in it.

Well water fell on the ground, city water fell on the ground, spring water fell on the ground.  My roof is pretty clean compared to the ground.  My rain water is filtered and all the little critters are killed and removed before we drink it.  Millions of people drink rain water.  We like it. 

[SwampDonkey]

Ground water is cleaner in my book, thanks. And I don't need to filter it or boil it or anything but drink it. 

[Qweaver]

We have a well at our home in Galveston county Texas.  We have to treat the water for minerals.  All of our family ( six homes) here in WV had wells until they hooked up to city water.   They all had to treat their well water and it did not taste good.  The city water tastes bad and is expensive.  This is why we decided to go to rain supplied cistern water.  Our water is clear, soft, free of bacteria, cheap and tastes good. What more could we ask.  A properly designed system will not have leaves or animals in the tanks.  There is more maintenance than being hooked up to city water but I'm willing to do that.

[woodsteach]

Qweaver

Do you have a diagram/drawing of your system and its components?  We are planning on building a shouse/houseshed in the very near future and would like to incorporate the rainwater system.

woodsteach

[Qweaver]

Here is how my system will look when it is done. Right now we are only using the coarse filter and running our drinking water through an Aqua Rain filter.  Our system is by no means ideal because we are forced to locate our tanks at different levels because of our location on a hillside.  I plan to take tank 1 out of the system and move it down to our sawmill.  We have never run short of water and we are currently only using two of the tanks.  We will have 3 tanks in operation within a few days.  Right now tank 3 is full and tank 4 is 2/3 full.  Tank 2 is about half full and we are digging a ditch to hook it up to tank 3.  Should be done tomorrow.  I think I will only coarse filter flushing and bath water.  I should also add that we have covers on our gutters that keep leaves and small critters out.
 

[Qweaver]

Actually here is a better diagram of my system.  The shut off valves and one way valves are required to 1. be able to shut off water for filter cleaning and 2. to keep the upper tanks from over flowing the lower tanks.  We have everthing ready to go except for the UV light.
There must be very little dirt/trash getting into the tanks because I have only had to clean filters one time last year and they look OK right now.  Our current setup is working so well that I have just put off spending the $800 to buy the light.  The gutter covers have really helped.  There is also an expansion tank piped in on the outlet side of the pump that is not shown on the drawing.  25 gal. I think.
 

[woodsteach]

Thank you for the great diagram.

Woodsteach

[mad murdock]

Qweaver,
What is the total capacity of your system? looks like you have quite a bit of storage.  How long (in hours or days of steady rain), does it take for the system to fill?  Looks like a well thought out system.

[Qweaver]

Hi Mad, 
Our four tanks will hold over 5000 gal but we are currently only using two...Tanks 3 and 4.  We are also only using 1/4 of the roof catch area that we could use.   Yet we have plenty of water even with the long period of freezing weather that we've had.  One day of rain will usually completely fill the tanks.  I plan to have the other underground tank online in a few days.  We got the ditch dug to plumb it in yesterday.  We will use more roof catch area when I get the time to run the pipe.  We do conserve water but we use as much as we want. (Sarah had one of those 50 gal Zacuzzi baths last night)  Tank 2 is about half full and we will use it to top off 3 and 4 as soon as we get the pipe in the ditch.  It would have been MUCH easier to just put in one 5000 gal tank but we did not have room to do it.  Poor planning on my part.

[Randy88]

For about 25 bucks you can have the water in any system tested for quality, nitrates, chemicals, bacteria, you name it.   Before I'd ever even use any of it for bathing in I'd have it tested, if you putting it for coffee or anything else even heated I'd absolutely have it tested for quality.   Fresh water tanks were used around here for the last 100 plus years and most are now being crushed in because the water quality isn't even fit to wash closes in let alone shower or bathe in.   Any bird that lands and does his thing on the roof, rat, mouse that needs a drink, bird that dies and rots and is never found, that all goes into the tank.   In our area it costs about 15-20 grand to drill a well, the collected water systems are about nothing to install and I've seen chlorinators and all sorts of things on both systems to try to get safe water even for bathing out of either, city water as its called isn't economical to get into the country in our area but further south they have rural water systems since the well water isn't fit for drinking or bathing.   

I've known both types well water and collected systems that have gotten bacteria in them and were basically abandoned due to the fact it wasn't fit for any human to even touch them let alone use the water and until they destroyed the system they couldn't get it out either, something somewhere grew in the pipes and couldn't be killed.  Yes without light things don't grow but bacteria once in the system can't always be killed and bacteria doesn't need light do do its thing.   

With ever change of the season have collected water tested and do it regularly, especially if you've got small kids around the system at all, adults can tolerate higher levels of bacteria than kids can.    I've lived in two different houses that had bad water systems, and neither were fit to even bathe in, until I rented them nobody had the water tested, one was isolated to bad pressure tank that was leaking contaminates into the system and the other was bad water completely and the well was capped and another was drilled some distance away, that well was so bad it made pregnant animals abort and even killed some adult livestock.   I also rented a farm that had a shallow well on it and during the winter it was bad enough to do the same thing, every winter and nobody ever figured out why, this spring it too was capped, a neighbors spring water was the same story, that system was abandoned as well.   I've known of a collected water system that a poisoned mouse got into and died and the water was laced with poison that the levels were high enough to put the owners in the hospital and it took weeks to track it down to the water, another a bird had died and it too was poisoned by eating some chemicals and it was on the roof and nobody knew it, after it decomposed the poison along with the bacteria got into the system and made everyone in the house sick to the point some of the kids were hospitalized before they figured it out.    All city water is supposed to be monitored weekly for quality, sometimes even daily, when you own the system who's monitoring your water?   Over the years I've had about 20 head of livestock die due to bad water, I've been hospitalized and so have some of my kids, I've been sick many times to the point of almost needing hospitalization and the single most important thing I've learned it to have water tested regularly if its not from a city to know what your putting into your body or on it.   

[beenthere]

Randy
You are much more paranoid about water than I.

[pigman]

Obviously I will be dead by tomorrow.   I suppose I should be planning my funeral.

[Randy88]

Been sick a few times and also I do demolish some of the fresh water collection systems out there for others, also have installed a few as well or as they say whatever pays the bills, also know of a few that do testing and listen to the stories they tell about the unusual things that come up once in a while, that and suffered the financial loss of dead livestock due to water contamination.   I guess it gives one a different perspective on things than most.   If it makes me a pessimist rather than an optimist at times I guess I'd lean more towards whatever is the safest way to go and testing is always cheap, easy and simple to then know for sure nobody will get sick.

[tyb525]

Monk, anyone?

[Larry]

For my collection lines from the down spouts to the tank can I use S&D pipe?  That's the cheap green stuff.  I'm only going to put the pipe 6" to a foot deep. 

Kathy wants a water supply for here garden, and flowers.  Not planning to use it in the house but that could change.

[Al_Smith]

The big old farm house I grew up in had a large cistern ,around 12 by 20, 7 feet deep .We seldom ran out of water which being rain water was naturally soft .We didn't drink the stuff ,bathing,washing clothes etc .was the use .

Now as far as sulfer,that can be aeriated with pretty good success .However any time you inject water with air you stand the chance of introducing bacteria so the stuff needs to be treated with something like chlorine so it's fit to drink .Then the catch 22 is you have to get the chlorine out so it doesn't taste like a swimming pool .

I don't know if an r/o filter will remove the rotten egg taste or not but it works for iron real well .

[SwampDonkey]

Sulfer, heck that's declared safe up here. It's in all the wells in Grafton pretty much, the folks have it filtered out in the fridge, but you can bathe in it and drink the stuff. Smells like rotten eggs.

As to the cistern, every farm house around here had them, we tore ours out 25 years ago for more room to store wood but stopped using it 40 years ago when the electric pump was put in.

[Al_Smith]

A friend of mine uses a pond for his water supply which is filtered and sanitized somehow .Of course that would not be an option in places where you don't get much rain or the soil conditions are such the ground won't hold water as in a pond .

[bandmiller2]

Up here in the northeast we are pretty much blessed with good water.I have municipal water but could dig 20' and be in good water.In the spring the water table is above my cellar floor.My old house origanally had a dug well. Frank C.

[r.man]

If you have a good drinking water well with a poor recovery rate a viable solution can be a small cistern tank in the basement and a second pump. Generally a 400 imp gal, I think that would be about 500 american gal, tank that fills at a slow rate from the well. Even if your well only recovers a quart a minute that works out to 15 gal an hour and 360 gallons per day if you draw the max per hour from your well. Most households don't use that much water even if they are not conserving.

[petefrombearswamp]

My good wife grew up on a farm in central NY with  spring for water.
When the taste got a little "off" My FIL would go to the spring and pull a dead woodchuck or whatever animal had fallen in and drowned and the water would be great until the next time.
She is EXTREMELY  healthy.
Maybe more body in the water?
I lived on a farm with a spring and the only problem was frozen lines in the winter.
The water tasted great.
My current home has a 125 deep well with 31 plus GPM recovery, but needs chlorination and filtration to be palatable.
I now have a $2500 chlorination/filtration system.
The old days were better.
Pete
 

[petefrombearswamp]

I forgot to mention, both systems had lead pipes.

[sandhills]

I don't know about the lead pipes Pete, but have fished a few dead gophers and a mouse out of the cistern when the water just wasn't tasting quite right  .  Don't tell the ex wife though.......on second thought she is the "ex" wife, go ahead and tell her. 

[Qweaver]

We have now been on roof fed cistern water for two years and love it.  We have four tanks but rarely use more than the main tank and in fact have only used the main tank in 2011 and never got below 1/3 full.  The tanks are closed to the outside so no animals can get into the water.  I do filter to below bacteria level for drinking.

[sfletch]

We are looking at putting in a rain water system and I noticed the issue of debris and small animals in the tanks.

Has anyone used a simple sand filter as a means of removing debris from the water before it enters the tanks?

[bandmiller2]

If'n you got a cistern in your cellar you don't want seagulls on your roof. Frank C.

[saltydog]

The home i live in now is also the place i grew up.People came from all over to get water from the hand pump on our well.I was gone for years then moved my family back to care for my mother in all 9 people livin here .The well went dry one dry july we had a new one drilled it was 120ft.When they filled the old well(they had to to get permit for new well) the old well was not capped and was only 18 ft deep. pretty much groundwater.This house was built in 1880s water never killed anyone im aware of.