Advice about having logs moved off of a slope

[JimY]

Hello to all,
  Sorry about the length of this post.  It's my first and I need some help.  I've got 50+ white oak trees ranging from about 16 to 28 inches dbh with little taper.  They are nice tall trees, ranging from probably 30-40' estimated log length, more in some.  Similar to the trees Jeff B posted pictures of lately, only not so tall generally.  I want to use the Bill Reeks' designed sawmill that I'm building (2/3 done) to cut these into a fairly simple timberframe house.
  Being a fairly hardheaded and frugal (OK, cheap ) sort of guy, I wanted to move these myself.  After thinking about it a lot, I've decided that the trees are too big and heavy and the slope too great.  I've got a local logger coming this Sunday to discuss moving them for me.
  The slope will take the wind out of you but it's only about 100 yds wide, drops down to a creek.  I just need the trees moved out to a pasture where I can then deal with them.

  Question 1:  Will he want to do the cutting of the trees?  I've already dropped eight of the trees and could do the rest.  Will I save enough money to be worth the trouble?
 Question 2:  Do you think he might be interested in trading his work for some red oak of similar size to the white or should I just offer cash for such an oddball job.
  Question 3:  Any ideas as to what this may cost me?  Is this likely to be an hourly based job, per MBF, per log?

  I realize that answers to these questions depend on many variables.  I've met the logger before and was impressed by him personally but I know only a limited amount about his work (so far so good).  I am mostly just wanting to use your responses (hopefully) to get an idea of his worries and concerns as he looks at my potential job.  I don't want to waste his time.
  Thanks in advance for any and all responses.

  As a side note,  I'd like to congratulate you folks on a really great discussion board.  I enjoy it every time I log on, unlike some other boards on the Net where the members seem to be constantly looking for an argument with each other.
Thanks again.
I'm in upstate SC if that matters.

[beenthere]

My suggestion would be to get a third party involved for advice, maybe someone who (like a forester) has experience with moving logs and also with the available loggers in the area. You seem to be finding yourself in a tough spot (can't get the logs up to the pasture) and the wrong logger may get you into a tougher spot. You may, or may not, have to pay for the advice, but seems you are in need of some at the moment. You may be able to set up some cable rigging that would allow you to move the logs with the tractor that you have. That might be the lowest cost, and the most friendly to your slopes. Other opinions from experts who know your terrain and the situation you are in, would be good to have. Go easy, and don't knock any more trees down without knowing the solution to your problem. Its sometimes easy to knock em over, and hard to untangle them.
Good luck.

[Rod]

Around here you can get a 550 John Deer logging dozer for $35 per hour with driver.If you cut the trees down and cut the tops off all you will need is winch them out.should be able to drag out 10,000-12,000 bdft in 8 hours.

[Jeff]

I don't know if this helps, but currently we are paying a logger $50 a cord, or roughly $100 a thousand to cut skid and deliver to our log yard one of our sales. He is responsible for everything except paying the stumpage. He must honor and fulfill any processing obligations for us and the landowner.

I know that we also pay roughly 30 to 40 dollars a thousand to have truckers pick up our logs at the woods site and deliver them to out yard.

Slope to a creek? You need to make sure that whoever does the job follows BMPs. Best Management practices. That creek belongs to those down stream and upstream from you too. Any damage or changes made to it caused by your harvest operations could make you liable for reconstruction costs and possibly other damages. Here is Michigan you best be careful or you could find yerself up dat creek.

[Tom]

I'd offer some advice, since it's free, but I don't know what to do with a slope.   We don't have any. :-/

[Ron Scott]

Lay out a harvest plan and discuss its feasibility with a logger experienced in logging slope terrain in your area. Safety must be a prime concern and proper methods must be used which include best mangement practices (BMP's).

Also seek advice from your local Conservation District
Forester, professional consulting forester, etc.

[Stephen_Wiley]

Just to reiterate what some have already said; hire a consulting forester or a district forester to address the removal of trees in this area.

These areas are referred to as 'riparian zones'  often they are governed by State and Federal agencies e.g.  forest, natural resources, water conservation, fish and game, army corp of engineers,  etc.  

On one location I previously worked   - 14 different federal and state governing bodies had jurisdiction.  A management plan had to meet the criteria of all before work could begin. (note: a logger had already started operations.........it took several months to avert the penalty implications).

Loggers, often do not have the expertise advisement in these areas to protect you from fines or litigation.  

[JimY]

Thanks for the info and advice.  I hadn't even considered watershed issues.  Will let you know what happens.
  I hope to post pictures of my sawmill and log mover in a short while.  Some of my timbers will need to be 22' long, logs that long take a lot of preparation to handle.  More than I imagined when I started down this road.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  SHEEEESH, talk about a friendly and warm discussion board, and not 1 DanG person give ya a Howdy and welcome to the Forum.
 Well, I WILL.. Howdy, and welcome to the forum.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Hey JimY glad to have ya on the forum...another thought to seriously consider...if you have white oak that will make a saw log as you describe...the market is VERY strong for it..I mean you could sell the white and BUy less expensive logs and make A LOT OF MONEY...we are getting average 90 cents for bdft for cooperage(barrel making) on average logs....2 0r 3 hundred a log will buy a lot of material
Don

[Stephen_Wiley]

 

Deadheader is right,   got so busy responding did not even notice you were 'new here'.  

Welcome,  I am still relatively new myself but this forum is full of friends and good nature.    

[dan-l-b]

Welcome JimY,  Jeff mentioned BMPs and Ron suggested your local forester.  As I was sitting on my deer stand this morning I thought of your thread and the area I was in,  a SMZ.  Stream management zone.  Here in MO they can get pretty persnickity with those that don't abide by there rules.  Did see a nice buck but couldn't get a shot off.  

[JimY]

Thanks for the welcomes.  Like I said (typed?) earlier, I really do enjoy this board.
  I talked to my logger today.  He thought he might be able to do my skidding job in one or maybe two days.  His quote was $1500 or $2000, depending on the number of days.
  I asked him about some of my red oak timber.  He said he had a market for it but I had the impression that he thought mine would be more trouble than it was worth.  I'll ask about the white oak.
  His view on the stream issue was that we had to stay 40' away from the creek itself.  He didn't think we'd have much more trouble since we're doing pretty selective cutting.  I'm planning on taking only perhaps a 1/3 of the larger trees.  I intend to ask some more questions, before he cuts, at the forestry college at Clemson Univ. which is only a 1/2 hour from here.
  I'll keep y'all   informed