Proper and safe drop starting technique

[Rocky_J]

In his thread, Chep asked that any drop starting discussion be taken elsewhere. Seems there is some confusion about 'saws flailing around out of control' when drop starting so I stepped out into the back yard and recorded a quick video. The saw is a Husky 346 straight off the work truck that I brought home to service and I didn't bother snugging up the chain to proper tension before recording the video. It will be cleaned, adjusted and sharpened before work tomorrow morning.

[Jeff]

Okay, I have a question. Its one of them "what if" type of questions, and my what if wondering comes from another thread just posted.  The saw firing and running backwards thread.  Isn't there still the danger, be it remote, if the saw fired backwards, wrenching the the pull start handle in your hand, that that might not possibly pivot the saw bar towards your arm or head?

I'm not much to question the method of starting, because before my shoulder problems, what you are doing is exactly how I used to start the saw.  I'm just throwing the what if out there because I think there is a remote chance its valid.  I now set my saw down because I have to use my left hand to start it as my right can't any longer.

[Rocky_J]

I don't see how it could, Jeff. As I said in the video, there is no part of my body in line with the bar and chain. That is an old habit I developed after dealing with kickback while cutting over the years. On my biggest saws I have had the recoil hang up if I didn't use the compression release. The rope suddenly stopping will cause the saw to pivot in your left hand a little because the motor didn't turn over, but again there are no body parts in line with the bar and chain.

I have never in my life had a saw kick back running when started with this method. It simply won't happen. Ever since the introduction of chain brakes on saws there is absolutely no legitimate reason not to drop start a saw like this.

[John Mc]

Rocky -

Thanks for making the video. Your technique has one big difference from what I see a lot of guys do. You hold the saw across the front of your body, so if the saw were to rotate, your body is not in the plane of rotation.

A lot of the guys I see drop starting cross their left hand over, so the saw bar is pointing out in front of them, not quite straight away from them... almost as if they were bucking a log that is lying at waist height in front of them. The bar end of the saw also seems to wave around a lot more when they are pulling. If the saw were to rotate down, it would be heading for their leg. If it were to rotate up, it's heading for their face.

That's just what happened to the guy I mentioned in the other thread:

I've seen a couple of guys who give me nightmares with their drop starting technique. One guy is just flailing all over the place, with the saw swinging in various directions. No two starts look the same. He claims to have the saw "in control" -- but has nicked his chaps on at least one occasion that I've seen, and taken a chunk out of the visor on his helmet on another. Both happened when starting a saw. You'd think this would be a warning to him that his technique needs a little adjustment. The only thing he leaned from this is that "It's a good thing I always wear my safety gear". I can't argue with that... it's a DanG good thing he wears it. But he's still a good candidate for the Darwin Award for chainsaw starting.

I watched him put a nick in his chaps... and it wasn't the first one there. He pointed out the chip out of his helmet visor (proud of himself for what a safe operator he was, since he was wearing his safety equipment).

John Mc

[Al_Smith]

To each his own .I drop the climbers 200T ,S-25 Poulan etc . Usually the mid size behind the knee and the 100 and over on the ground with a foot in the handle .

I don't recommend it but I have dropped a flooded 084 out of frustration  . That's a lot of saw to be tossing around though and not really the thing to do .

Really though if you are aloft either on a set of hooks or in a bucket dropping is about the only way you can get one started .

[Rocky_J]

Good point about the bucket, Al. I hadn't considered it but most of my saw use in the last 5 years has been from a bucket truck, so this is naturally how I would start a saw anyway. I usually have the bucket in between my body and the saw.

The other method I see a lot of (which is totally idiotic in my opinion) is holding the saw with the right hand by the rear handle and thrusting the saw forward while pulling the starter handle with the left hand. This results in the saw firing off while there is absolutely no control over it, the tip of the bar is very likely to contact the ground, and if the operator holds it up then the spinning chain will swing back towards the operator's leg. This is the most common method used in these parts and it drives me crazy watching these idiots try to start a saw.

A safer variation of this method is to lock the chain brake and lay the bar over a log while using this method. Much better, but if there is no log laying on the ground then they don't know what to do and go back to flailing the saw out into the air in front of them.

[Al_Smith]

I did have one come back on me once .Although I didn't get hurt it served as a wake up call . Super Pro 81 Mac with a 28" bar, flooded .Like a dummy I held the throttle and left handed it.The dang decomp closed ,saw fired backwards and climbed the rope . No chain brake on that old duffer and tons of compression .Never again since with that saw, on the ground  for that one .

[John Mc]

The other method I see a lot of (which is totally idiotic in my opinion) is holding the saw with the right hand by the rear handle and thrusting the saw forward while pulling the starter handle with the left hand. This results in the saw firing off while there is absolutely no control over it, the tip of the bar is very likely to contact the ground, and if the operator holds it up then the spinning chain will swing back towards the operator's leg. This is the most common method used in these parts and it drives me crazy watching these idiots try to start a saw.

I've seen that one as well. Then the guy drops the rope and makes a flying grab for the front handle with his left hand (usually swinging his left foot forward as he does so) while the saw is still swinging away from him. I hope he doesn't miss: if he does, either his left hand is moving towards the chain, or the saw is swinging really close to that left leg he just moved. (Oh yeah, chain brake? what chain brake... knew I forgot something...)

[441FELLER]

Professional drop-starter with Professional hair! Love the Tech talk.

[Warbird]

Thanks for the vid, Rocky.  That is how I start my 270c and 361.  I've never had a saw kickback on me when starting like that and if you've locked the chain brake, any damage would be minimal IMO.

[Rocky_J]

A person posted in the other thread (where we were asked NOT to discuss drop starting) that he thought I could cut a leg off with the starting method I demonstrated in my video. I absolutely disagree with that accusation and it causes me to doubt the chainsaw using abilities (or lack thereof) of the accuser. I still don't understand how somebody could think it would be safer to turn the saw around so the bar was on the side of the saw closest to your body, or perhaps pointing straight forward where your head would be in line with any kickback (even though that's impossible with the chain brake engaged).

The video I posted above was done using a small, lightweight saw (Husky 346xp) which is easily manipulated regardless of technique. In order to better demonstrate the effectiveness of this drop starting technique I made another video using a Stihl MS880, which is about as big and heavy as you can get for a one man chainsaw. Sorry if I sound a little sarcastic at the end but the ignorant accusation irritated me. 

[Warbird]

That felow in the youtube video is doing it backwards. The saw can start and go right into his leg. He should have it turned around the other way and switch positions with his hands.

I quoted that from another thread, where the OP asked us not to derail his thread with this topic.

I absolutely disagree with you Frickman.  In fact, I cannot even picture the mechanics of safely starting any chainsaw in the way you describe here.  If a guy were to start a saw like that and it did kickback, chain brake or no, if I'm envisioning it properly, it would hit him square in the head or neck!

[Warbird]

Okay, I was curious enough about what Frickman said that I ran out to the shop and grabbed my 361.  I held it the way he described and mimicked drop starting it.  There are 2 huge problems I could see:

1)  It actually put the blade/chain much closer to my leg/body.  I could easily see any kickback hitting my leg or head.

2)  As you go through the drop and pull, the top of the saw and chain are actually torqued toward you.  The way I do it (as displayed in Rocky's vids), it is torqued away from you.

Given those 2 things, I find your method much, much more dangerous and I would hesitate to recommend it to anyone.

I don't mean to harp on you, Frickman but I think your recommendation is dangerous and could hurt someone.

[sawguy21]

With all due respect, I too disagree with Frickman. Rocky's technique has the moving chain well away from tender body parts. Being left handed, I got into the habit of holding the saw with my right and pulling with my left. That is, until I had an 075 take a chunk out of my jeans, no safety pants I was working in the shop. Never did that again.
My preferred methods now are start on the ground with a heel on the hand guard or the handle between my knees if the ground is muddy or snow covered.

[trapper]

Thanks Rocky.  Learned A much safer way to start my saws from you.
Marv

[Al_Smith]

Cutting to the chase if a person doesn't feel dropping is safe then don't do it ,simple enough .

Some saws just present more problems with that method than others .Example being I have a 2100 XP Husqvarna with no decmp .One of the hardest pulling saws I've ever seen . So much so that even in stock form I have a D-handle on it .That one is a chore to pull over even on  the ground and I personally will not ever attempt a drop on it .Maybe someone can but I'm not the one .

Large saws with long bars present another problem ,antiques like wise . You have to use a little thought on this .

I mean I've dropped 125 Macs when they were flooded while tuning in a carb but I took the 36" bar off first .No brakes on those ,just not a good plan to be dropping 30 plus pounds with not good control .Kinda fond of all my body parts if you know what I mean .

[Ed]

Good vids Rocky!
I really like the way you double checked the de-comp on the 880.  It's not pleasant when one of those "bites you".

I use to drop start as you do, still do on a warm saw. With tendonitis and some shoulder problems (that I don't want to irritate) cold starts are done on the ground with my left hand.

Ed

[Rocky_J]

I normally set the big boys on the ground as well, they are just too heavy to be tossing around. That's the first time I've ever dropstarted an 880. 

[Jeff]

Well dont do that any more.

 Its gotta be hard on the shoulders and believe me, you want to keep yer shoulders in good shape cause life can be miserable when they wear out.

[Al_Smith]

Oh but alas some of those things you do in life as a young man will come back to haunt you in later life .Shoulders are one of them, I know .

[SawTroll]

In his thread, Chep asked that any drop starting discussion be taken elsewhere. Seems there is some confusion about 'saws flailing around out of control' when drop starting so I stepped out into the back yard and recorded a quick video. The saw is a Husky 346 straight off the work truck that I brought home to service and I didn't bother snugging up the chain to proper tension before recording the video. It will be cleaned, adjusted and sharpened before work tomorrow morning.

I reverse the hands, and that puts the bar pointing more away from me, to the front. Also, I use the chain brake only if there is a defined reason to do so, like thick underbrush, unknown saw, long bar, etc.

Hot starts mostly are done in just the "on" position (not "fast idle"), and then the chain won't move anyway, if the carb is correctly adjusted.

[Rocky_J]

The big problem with having the saw pointing straight away from you, especially if you aren't using the chain brake, is the kickback potential with your head directly in line with the bar and chain and only one hand on the saw. If the saw were to hit something and kick back, I'd much rather have it cartwheel harmlessly in front of me than coming straight back at me.

I realize it's a double redundancy and the risks are small, but in my experience accidents happen when two mistakes are made. If you're starting the saw with your body in line with the chain then you've already bypassed one measure of safety, meaning that only one screwup stands between you and injury. I like keeping a level of two screwups in between me and injury.

[SawTroll]

The big problem with having the saw pointing straight away from you, especially if you aren't using the chain brake, is the kickback potential with your head directly in line with the bar and chain and only one hand on the saw. If the saw were to hit something and kick back, I'd much rather have it cartwheel harmlessly in front of me than coming straight back at me.

I realize it's a double redundancy and the risks are small, but in my experience accidents happen when two mistakes are made. If you're starting the saw with your body in line with the chain then you've already bypassed one measure of safety, meaning that only one screwup stands between you and injury. I like keeping a level of two screwups in between me and injury.

I see your point, but I put the brake on if there is even a remote possibility that the bar could hit even a straw!

Forgot to say - I am right-handed.

[Warbird]

How NOT to start a chainsaw:



I repeat, do NOT try starting a chainsaw this way.  

[Shotgun]

Man, I couldn't even watch that gal start her saw. I watched no more than 6 seconds of that one.  Ouch.

[SawTroll]

Man, I couldn't even watch that gal start her saw. I watched no more than 6 seconds of that one.  Ouch.

Well, my wife ("SawWitch" on another site) didn't do it like that, when she still lived.

[Warbird]

No worries, Shotgun.  There is no violence/gore in that 10 second clip.  I found it by searching on how not to start a chainsaw. 

[barbender]

I had to go examine how I actually start a saw, I don't put it on the ground but I know I don't flail it all over either. I realized it's sort of like drop starting, but I anchor the rear handle on my thigh so saw is held firm. If that make any sense

[Dave Shepard]

Al makes a great point, if you're not comfortable with any method, then don't do it. On the ground with a foot in the handle is definitely a good way for most saws, but is also more time consuming and not an option if you aren't near the ground, i.e. in a bucket or hanging from a rope. I always start any saw with the brake on, this really reduces the chance of an injury. My Huskys really like this, the Stihls with their foolish one lever switch where you can start choked at low idle don't like it so much, but they don't have a choice. Just be quick to hit the trigger to get it off of high idle when it fires.

[SwampDonkey]

My opinion, and that's all it is, my saws are placed on the ground before starting. The whole drop start thing worries me a tad.  I've seen those "one hand on throttle and pull cord with opposite hand that is not dominant" episodes. I usually see scars, or get the sad story of where and how.