nailing 1x12 planks?

[bobdog]

I am having a gentleman cut some 1 x 12 planks from fire killed (4 years ago) spruce and Doug fir. I am curious if you can nail them with 15 gauge finish nails? I would like to find some angled ring shank airgun nails but am not having luck. The spruce will go on the walls and ceiling and the fir on the floor. We are thinking of doing a ship lap to help with shrinkage. Thoughts?

Tim

[Jim_Rogers]

Bobdog, Tim:
Welcome to the forum.

Doing shiplap will help keep the gaps from showing a lot when they do shrink.

I'm not completely sure of the size of 15 gauge finish nails but you should have 1/3 the nail in the board and 2/3's of the nail in the wall, ceiling or subfloor to hold it there good.
So measure your finished shiplap and see exactly how that will work for you.

Jim Rogers

[ely]

i would hate to walk on that shiplap though

[bobdog]

Jim, apparently a 15 gauge nail from an air gun is a 6d nail. We've seen that we should face nail the planks at 3 per stud (we're putting the wall ones horizontally). What I'm afraid of mostly is cupping and hope the 3 per face per stud will control that. Is that how most folks would nail them?

On the floor, we were thinking to use 8d nails from a framing gun, counter sinking them and then patch the holes.

Ely, what might be the issue of walking on the ship lap? Would you butt them? Glue them? are they too wide? Sorry for all the questions, but I've never done this before.

Thanks for the help, this forum is great.

Tim

[1938farmall]

i wouldn't depend on even a 2-1/2" finish nail to hold a 12" board flat.  you want ring shank and will need a different nailer as i've never seen a finish nailer that will take them.  spruce can cup very badly & if the nails stop it, watch for splits.  al

[Jim_Rogers]

According to my nail chart, I just remembered I had on file, a 6d nail is 2" long. And as I mentioned you should have 2/3's of the nail length in the holding wood, and 1/3 in the wood itself. So again it depends on the thickness of the shiplap.
Around here shiplap is only surfaced on one side and that usually means it is around 7/8" thick. So you nails maybe too short.

In the book I just finished reading, the author stated that when lumber drys the annual rings try to flatten out. So if this is true then you should put the boards on with the center of the tree towards the center of the room { |)))| > wall } That way when the edges try to flatten out they will bend towards the wall and not towards the center of the room.

It seems to me that I remember someone telling me when putting down decking that it should be smiley face up, so that would hold true to the position to install so that they won't cup up..... but to cup down.....

And as mentioned the finish nail may not have enough holding power.

Good luck with your project.

[bobdog]

The finish nails we have so far, only because it is all we could find, are 6d (15 gauge) that are 2.5 inches long. However, that is the longest we could find. I'm not sure they will be long enough either as the boards are rough cut 7/8"-1" thick. If they tend towards the 1" side then the nails will be 1/2" short by the 2/3 - 1/3 recommendation. At this point we planned on leaving the finish for the walls/ceiling rough.

The other options are to hand nail ring shank if we could find them in a case or finish nail OR use the framing nailer and use 8d ring shank nails, which we found. That is what we planned to use on the floor planks. Does that sound better?

Leaving the boards rough brings up our second quandary and that is should we sand the floor after installation or plane it before installation?

Again I apologize for my ignorance and am very appreciative of the comments from you all.

Tim

[ely]

dont pay me any mind, i was only trying to be funny. apparently ship lap means something other than what im thinking.

to me ship lap is a siding and some folks here who lap boards on a wall call that ship lap. this is what i was refferring to that i would hate to walk on, would be a real toe stumper. anyway i will hush and read now so as to learn from yall.

[Jim_Rogers]

Leaving the boards rough brings up our second quandary and that is should we sand the floor after installation or plane it before installation?
..... and am very appreciative of the comments from you all.

Tim

To make it nice, plane first and sand after, it will be very nice then indeed.

Again I apologize for my ignorance...

There is no need to apologize.
There are no stupid questions here.
Only questions that need answers......

And you're welcome....

Good luck with your project...

Jim Rogers


For ely:

[WDH]

If you get the wood dry before installation, it will not cup.  Cupping is a sign of stress that occurs as wood dries.  If the wood is dry in equilibrium with the in-use environment, it will be stable and it will not cup.  So to minimize cupping, make sure the wood is dry beforehand.

[Brad_bb]

It's one thing to use green wood in a timberframe.  The shrinkage there can be dealt with.  I've never heard of nor would advise the use of wood that is not properly dried and acclimated to the use environment for a floor.  You can stack and sticker it(out of the sun) until it's dried sufficiently, then plane it to final dimension.  Then put the wood in the room it's going in for some time to acclimate, before installation and sanding.

[bobdog]

I'm only curious, but would fire killed wood be considered green if it has been standing for 4-5 years? Also, how much would rainy weather contribute to moisture content? It has been raining where the wood has been standing, where it has (will be) cut and where it will be installed.

Tim

[Jim_Rogers]

I'm only curious, but would fire killed wood be considered green if it has been standing for 4-5 years? Also, how much would rainy weather contribute to moisture content? It has been raining where the wood has been standing, where it has (will be) cut and where it will be installed.

Tim

I've milled old logs and the wood is drier then green but not dry enough to use as flooring or paneling indoors right off the mill.

You may need to air dry the wood for sometime before you have it kiln dried. Or have it kiln dried right off the sawmill.

Have you milled up any of the wood, yet?

One way to tell if it is dry is to test it with a moisture meter. If you don't have a moisture meter an easy way to test to see if it is dry is to weigh it. Dry wood should weigh a certain amount and if your wood weighs more then it is not dry.

Jim Rogers

[bobdog]

I'm only curious, but would fire killed wood be considered green if it has been standing for 4-5 years? Also, how much would rainy weather contribute to moisture content? It has been raining where the wood has been standing, where it has (will be) cut and where it will be installed.

Tim

I've milled old logs and the wood is drier then green but not dry enough to use as flooring or paneling indoors right off the mill.

You may need to air dry the wood for sometime before you have it kiln dried. Or have it kiln dried right off the sawmill.

Have you milled up any of the wood, yet?

One way to tell if it is dry is to test it with a moisture meter. If you don't have a moisture meter an easy way to test to see if it is dry is to weigh it. Dry wood should weigh a certain amount and if your wood weighs more then it is not dry.

Jim Rogers

Yes, the wood has been milled. It is in the Gila Forest of central NM. We are in the monsoon season now and so it is raining there and pretty humid. However, where it was cut will also be where it is installed. Unfortunately, we are building a cabin and yet to have an oven. If we did I would weigh a piece of spruce before and after drying in an oven to see how much "water" weight there is. Maybe a Dutch oven will work. We were hoping to put some of the wall wood (Engelman spruce) up soon, but maybe we should bring it in the cabin and let it sit for a while? Since we are doing ship lap, then I'm less worried about shrinkage and mostly worried about cupping.

The floor Doug fir will sit in the cabin over the winter and we will put it in next June when the air is the driest.

Do you know of a link to wood weights?

Tim

[Jim_Rogers]

http://www.forestryforum.com/calcs/weight.htm

But I think this only gives you green weight. And it wouldn't work with my browser.

You could try asking in another section of this forum, such as drying and processing.

If you find a link could you post it here for us?

Jim Rogers

[shinnlinger]

I would think you could rent the proper nailer or find a used one for the same $.  Cheap money in my mind.