Author Topic: circle saw head rig (Read 1912 times)

sawsmith · « **on:** May 31, 2010, 08:59:04 pm »

i am new to the forum but have been hammering inserted tooth saw blades for about 10 years and am willing to try to answer any ?'s you might have about your inserted tooth headsaw's.

woody1 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 31, 2010, 09:02:33 pm »

Welcome to the forum. I am sure you will get lots of questions.
Thanks for the invite.

paul case · « **Reply #2 on:** May 31, 2010, 09:02:54 pm »

welcome to ff sawsmith.
good company here im a converted circle sawyer but there are plenty of kinds of millers here so your expertise will come in handy.pc

r.man · « **Reply #3 on:** May 31, 2010, 10:45:30 pm »

Welcome Sawsmith and let me be the first to ask a question after your generous offer. I have been reading a bit about hammering as a necessary first step of getting a mill to cut properly but I have never heard anyone describe the process. If you wouldn't mind I'm sure a lot of members would find it interesting. For instance is it done on a table, horizontal or vertical, etc and how do you know whether it worked or not? Do you spin up blades after hammering to confirm that it worked and finally how do I tell if a saw has been hammered to a certain rpm? Sounds like more than one question but I realized while I was typing that I'm interested in the whole process. Thanks in advance and again welcome.

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 01, 2010, 06:01:56 am »

Welcome Sawsmith,its good to see a younger man take up the hammer,many of the smiths now are of an age where they want to do outher things.I considered tensioning my own saws but yours is a trade that requires alot of practice and experiance and a fella can't get good doing a couple of saws a year.How did you learn the trade?? thanks for your generous offer. Frank C.

KyTreeFarmer · « **Reply #5 on:** June 01, 2010, 10:20:30 am »

Welcome Sawsmith
I would think you will get "hammered" with questions. Thanks for the offer.
KTF

sawsmith · « **Reply #6 on:** June 01, 2010, 07:25:59 pm »

good first question r.man
the actual "hammering" process is done in the horizontal position on a in my case homemade bench with a crowned and chilled anvil. i have since upgraded to two 3-60 armstrong stretcher rolls. the roller's save ALOT of hammer work. As far as checking to see if the RPM's are correct i use a Hanchett RPM gauge w/ the saw suspended at 6:00 and 12:00 in the horitontal position. As far as running a saw up to a certain RPM i do not since i may use a different size collar than you do or your collar's may need resurfaced to get the correct taper. if you want to try to hammer your own saw's don't use your #1 saw for this learning process. a misused hammer can ruin a otherwise good saw.

sawsmith · « **Reply #7 on:** June 01, 2010, 07:31:05 pm »

i learned the process from 1 on 1 teaching from another hammerman. and MANY MANY phone call's to him when i was home by myself with the saw's in front of me and him not right there to answer any question. however my question were usually answered by "do what you think if it's not right you will have to redo it"

sawthemlogs · « **Reply #8 on:** June 01, 2010, 09:28:24 pm »

HELLO SAWSMITH and welcome...several years back i use to just drop off my 56 inserted blade and they would call when he got it done because of there busy schedule...last year he wasnt busy and got right to it... i am always curious about how things are done and like to learn something new every day.

..so asked him if i could watch.he said sure might get boring,,,which to me it did after about 15 mi.he did answer my questions i had but ididnt want to bother the guy to much while he was working ,after all it was my saw he was pounding on

i did learn it is a skilled art and left to the saw docs to do.

r.man · « **Reply #9 on:** June 01, 2010, 10:07:22 pm »

Thanks Sawsmith for the answer. Always so much to learn. At the moment I don't have a saw of any style but I'm working on that problem. I do however know of a small complete abandoned circle mill that a neighbour of mine built about 60 yrs ago around a commercial carriage. It has been unused for about 20 yrs now but that should not be a huge problem with equipment of that era. The individual parts are probably older than that, which is always a plus. If the mill was 20 yrs old and 10 yrs abandoned it would be no better than scrap. Gotta love the real old stuff. If I remember right the blade was without inserted teeth and about 50 inches in diameter. If I acquire that I will have lots of specific questions. Anyways thanks again.

Meadows Miller · « **Reply #10 on:** June 03, 2010, 08:01:15 am »

Gday

and welcome to the forum Sawsmith Its good to have a Saw doctor on the forum

Saw doctoring's a die'ing art and its good to see a young bloke taking it up

Its somthing ive always had an intrest in myself but i like makin sawdust too much Mate

Regards Chris

Joe Lallande · « **Reply #11 on:** June 06, 2010, 03:16:01 pm »

I recently had my 40" blade hammered by the owner of the local saw mill in town. When we cleaned the crud off the blade we found the fowlling markings:
4
S & J
600
L4704
Does the 600 indicate the blade's original speed? Thank you, Joe Lallande, Alpena, MI

sawsmith · « **Reply #12 on:** June 07, 2010, 08:34:33 pm »

yes the 600 stamp on the blade was what the factory (Spear & Jackson) tensioned it for. The L4704 is the serial number of your saw

captain_crunch · « **Reply #13 on:** June 09, 2010, 02:15:39 pm »

Sawsmith
Is it normal for blace to move when setting

I blame on the weather but one time my blade will be tight against inside sawguide and next day might be again Outside guide. I run about match book cover clearance between them and blade
Brian

sawsmith · « **Reply #14 on:** June 09, 2010, 07:41:02 pm »

Brian
do you have a roof over the mill

captain_crunch · « **Reply #15 on:** June 10, 2010, 12:41:45 am »

Sawsmith
Yep got roof

Saw guides are homemade out of an old shakle

I put a hose clamp on adjustment bolt so lets see if this stops issue

I asume you adjust guide to relaxed(set all nite) blade. Saw will take saw kerf wide cut off 18 ft log so it seems to cut true for being an old M-14 Bellsaw
Thank you for your advise greatly appericated
Brian

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #16 on:** June 10, 2010, 05:23:47 am »

I've always set my guides while the saw is running. I'm not cutting any wood with a saw that's stopped, and the saw will stand differently while running. But, its not recommended if you aren't comfortable doing it. There's a lot of danger to being in that position around a running saw.

I'm also using a split saw guide. I can adjust either side. Some of the older guides meant that you had to adjust both guides in one direction, then readjust the one with the most wear. That should be done on a stopped saw.

If your saw gets a little warm during usage, that can draw your saw so the guides aren't the same when you look at them. Heat can come from dullness, the species you're cutting, and the rate of your feed. I've even had logs that just won't cut good.

You could also have some problems with your collars so that it looks different at different points on the saw. You have to be comparing at the same point to come up with some conclusions. I often mark the top of a tooth with the corner of a file so I can come back to that point anytime with that set of teeth.

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 10, 2010, 06:07:11 am »

Captain C.,I see your guide is made from an old shackle,that will make it harder to adjust.About the only way you can do that safely is to adjust the gap with the saw stopped then run it up to hammered RPM and adjust for equal gap boath sides.If the saw chatteres in the guides or lays over to one side in use their are outher problems as Ron says.Its very handy to have guides with threaded adjustments and provisions to lock that adjustment.I would look around for a saw guide that would be easier to adjust or build one.Frank C.

sawsmith · « **Reply #18 on:** June 10, 2010, 04:50:13 pm »

captain c. what happen's when you see the saw against one guide or the other when it's cold and turn the saw by hand? does it stay against that same pin for the full 360% turn? also try loosining the mandrel nut see if that moves your saw away from the pin its layin on. i don't think the lug pin's are the problem since most bell saw's didnt use them. a bent or sheared lug pin or pins can cause problem's also. be sure to check your collars for proper taper. i like to see the same taper on both the fast collar and the outside collar. alot of miller's in the mid west like to run taper on the fast collar and no taper on the outside collar.i myself dont like this idea but it seams to work for them. anybody out there doing this and why? just wondering.

captain_crunch · « **Reply #19 on:** June 11, 2010, 12:32:07 am »

Thanks Bandmiller. Ron and Sawsmith
Blade touches guides same in 360 rotation I have chrome teeth and my sharpener is made of file sections in a disc(yea old) but if you drag pinkie accross one it will draw blood so don't belive it is running dull Would love to have one I could adjust Hot(running) But Blade is running cold after pulling 17/1/2" Cut 18 ft long so I don't think it is too far out of kelter. Hopefully hose clamp on adjustment bolt will help
Thanks Again Will keep you posted
Brian

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Author Topic: circle saw head rig (Read 1912 times)