Timber Frame Outhouse Plans

[ballen]

Hi All,
Relative newbie here.  Been lurking for quite a while and am taking my first step....building a timber frame outhouse!

Here is my design (if I attached the picture correctly).  The sills and posts are 4x6, all the rest is 4x4.  I have tried to use standard practices to the extent I could find them like:  all the tennons are 1/4 the thickness of the timber.  The diameter of the pegs is 1/2 the thickness of the tennon except when the tennon is 1" thick then I used a min. 3/4" peg.  On edge joints, I left relish the same size as the thickness of the tennon.

Unfortunately, the peg holes don't come to the surface.  That's about the only complaint I have with the TF Rubies I am using in Google Sketchup.  Check them out, they are great and Clark provides great support!

I would very much appreciate comments about the design/approach.  While it will be a functioning outhouse (with a composting toilet so I won't have a hole benieth), this is primarily a training effort for doing a bigger structure at some time in the future.

I am also looking for a minimum set of tools for this.  Timing is ASAP.

I'd love to learn as much as I can from this excercise and greatly appreciate your comments.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[witterbound]

Your plan looks fine to me.  I know someone who made a fancy timber frame outhouse -- stained glass, etc.  Couple of comments. 
I'd drop the "tie beams" down a few inches so that the brace pockets on the back posts don't interfear with each other.  Second.  you will find that it takes quite a bit of time for that small outhouse.  If you made one more bent and used a few longer timbers you'd have a very nice timber frame shed, or a really big outhouse that you could use for more than just a spot for a potty.   

[Raphael]

Nice... I was thinking of something along those lines to stash my compressor in.

Looks like you'll need:
1" (or smaller) framing chisel, I'd get a 1.5" as well.
Mallet, tape measure, framing square, speed square and a saw or two (I like a Japanese Ryoba).
Also something to drill the peg holes and mortices, a boring machine or drill guide will go a long way to keeping the mortices plumb.

[Rooster]

Hey there,

I agree with WB about dropping the tie beams.  I also wouldn't be afraid of adding diagonals in the front door bent for stability.  The door will enclose them and they shouldn't be in the way too much since you will probably only have one person entering or exiting the outhouse at any given time. And it's not like it's going to be used as a "clown car", Eh? ...Honk, Honk!

Rooster

P.S.  Then again, some women like to go to the restroom in packs...Better make it a two seater.  haha

[Jim_Rogers]

I am also looking for a minimum set of tools for this.  Timing is ASAP.

Thanks,
Bill

Bill,

There is a list at the top of this section of the Forestry Forum of tools suggested to have to work with wood cutting timber frames.
I'm sure you have seen it.
What you can do is print out the list and then check off the ones you have already from your regular carpentry tools.
Then create a list of the tools needed.
We can help you acquire all the tools you'll need.
If you haven't seen it, yet, there is a list of timber framing hand tools for sale in the "for sale" section of this forum.
We have a large supply right now of most everything.
However I have a lot of tool selling trips planned and will be taking all the tools with me next weekend to TTRAG conference near Albany, NY.
Some of the best tools maybe sold at this conference.
You should try and place an order before this Friday.

Anyone from the Albany, NY area who would like to meet up with me, and view the tools, can send me a private email and I'll let you know where I'm staying and we can meet up and you can view and purchase some tools.

Jim Rogers

[maineframer]

I agree that the tie in the rear should be dropped. I feel however that the open front is fine and I wouldn't add braces.
I believe it will work out your plan looks solid.
I mean really she is built like a brick ------- well you get the idea. 

[ballen]

Thanks all,
Witterbound:  Thanks for catching the brace collision.  I raised both tie beams to make the front door fit but didn't notice the clash in the rear.  I'll drop the rear tie beam.  Regarding the size, it's a long story but my property has a conservation easement so I have limited freedom with regard to the overall size.

Raphael:  Thanks for the tool suggestions.  It helps me narrow my shopping list....

Rooster: Regarding front braces, I was planning on having the door swing in.  Is that silly for such a small space?  I have to keep the area in front of the toilet clear anyway (for pulling out the composting tray) so there is plenty of room for the swing.  I have this impression that it would be more secure if the door swung in (it will be unattended for long stretches).  I may mock it up to get a feel.  Pro's and con's?

Mainframer:  :-)

[ballen]

Oops...forgot Jim.
I will be in touch soon about tools:-)
Thanks

[Rooster]

I would say that traditionally, outhouse entry doors swung out because of the small space.  If you are set on having it swing in then I would take WB's advice and make the frame longer...this will change the overall look.  I vote function over asthetics. What kind of entry door are you thinking of using? Pre-hung steel with keyed locks for security? Or are you building it yourself out of wood?  How secure does it have to be?  I have a friend who has a couple of camper trailers on some hunting land in central Wisconsin.  He spends a lot of time up there in the spring and fall season.  He was in the habit of locking, and paddalocking his trailers shut to keep trespassers out.  Too many times the locks were torn off or shot off and the whole door system had to be replaced.  He finally decided to keep the trailers unlocked to save money and hassle.  He now says,"If they want in...they'll find a way, and it will cost me."

Ironically, I was on a University farm yesterday were the care-taker built an outhouse for the field students, and it has a composting toilet...with a door that wings out.


Rooster

[Raphael]

One important note is don't leave toilet paper when you're gone for an extended time.
Mice just love that stuff and there'll be confetti everywhere when you get back. 

[ballen]

Rooster, I also have a 14x16 shed with a wood stove on my property.  That is "home" (when we vacation there) until I build the larger TF home a few years from now.  The shed came with the property and is over 100 years old. Although not TF, it is very solid and is kept locked.  We have never had an issue with breakins (other than mice:-)).  If the outhouse were a regular hole in the ground, I would leave it open but self contained composting toilets come with "instructions".  Every time you close the lid, it activates a mixing arm.  This should not be activated if it is frozen as it will break it, etc. I think it's use needs to be "supervised".

For the same reason, I am going for a passive solar approach to keep the temp up for composting as much as possible year thru.  It will be in NE PA which is generally colder than you might expect.  Therefore, I hope to do a trombe wall on the south wall (right of the door) and hope to fill in between the timers with a thermal mass with glazing outside of that. For the other walls and roof, I plan to fashion my own SIPS with: First layer barn wood wrapped in tyvek, second layer 2"rigid insulation, third layer barn wood.  I also want to frame a second roof to provide larger overhangs for protection and thermal management. Fabian was right, this is going to be built like a brick #*@+ house.

I haven't determined if I will build the door or not but am leaning that direction. Opening out makes more sense but is it as secure (hinges exposed)?

If you guys are interested, I will post my progress.  I'm testing a lot of theories with this one....
Thanks for the comments.
Bill

[Thomas-in-Kentucky]

One important note is don't leave toilet paper when you're gone for an extended time.
Mice just love that stuff and there'll be confetti everywhere when you get back. 

That's what the coffee can is for... right? 

The frame is salvaged concrete forms.  the porch posts and rafters are oak 3x3's.  the siding is oak.  the roof is Vermont slate.

[Burlkraft]

That's a DanG good lookin' outhouse 

[ljmathias]

And unless my eyes deceive me (possible) it looks fairly portable- built on skids or close enough to skids that it could be pulled to a new location when the present one, ah, fills up?  or gets too fragrant?

Very nice- I'm tempted to build one like it just for fun.

Lj

[Thomas-in-Kentucky]

And unless my eyes deceive me (possible) it looks fairly portable- built on skids or close enough to skids that it could be pulled to a new location when the present one, ah, fills up?  or gets too fragrant?

In KY, you can tell when someone is going to move to a new house soon... they move the outhouse close to the main house.  .  ours is maybe 40 yards away from the back door.  I plan to plant a fruit tree there when we move it to another location.  we have indoor plumbing now, but this was our main facility while building the house for a couple of years.  I still enjoy it.  No anxiety as to whether you will clog it with too much toilet paper.  line the walls of the hole with plywood to avoid cave-ins.

[Magicman]

When my Granddad installed indoor plumbing, my Grandmother would not use it.  She still trotted out to the "Johnnyhouse"??  We didn't understand why and my Granddad certainly didn't !!!

[Jim_Rogers]

Connected to some of the old farm houses in Maine, I've been told, there was a small building that was part of the long structure that started with big house, small house, back house, barn. And in this back house or whatever it was called was a room where you could stop and rest a bit.

Every spring this house's bulk head door could be opened and the remains from underneath could be shoveled out and take out to the fields for fertilizer.

My brother-in-law's mother, God rest her soul, used to tell a story about going to Maine to visit some very old relatives. These relatives were too old to do this yearly chore of shoveling out the remains. And they didn't want to hire anyone else to do it.

As time passed on the remains got higher and higher.

So much so that the owner had to raise the sitting area. Well when he raised the sitting area he needed to add a step up.

After a few more years, he added another step. Then another.

The last time she said she went there, she refused to use the stairs as she would be shinning a moon to the neighbors as the seat was now up to the level of the small vent window.....

We used to laugh like everything thinking about this situation......

[Rooster]

My grandfather tells the story of his father back on the farm in the late 1920s, where it was a tradition on Halloween night for the boys in the surrounding area, to go and tip over the neighboring farm's outhouses. 

Well, after the third year in a row, my Great-grand father who was a rough German that stepped off the boat in 1906, decided to move his outhouse back 4 feet, before the boys got to it.  Needless to say, it was the last time those kids messed with his outhouse.

They did not notice the exposed pit in the dark, and two of the three boys fell in!   It was so bad that they had to strip down right there, walked home almost naked, with my Great-Grandfather escorting them at a "safe" distance. He got apologizes from kids and parents alike. 

As a side note, they had to burn their clothing.

And oh yeah,...you can tell we're related!

Rooster  (Fourth Generation American)

[ballen]

I have finally cut enough beams to start putting together my timberframe outhouse.  I am thinking of it as a 2 bent, single bay structure.  Its time to assemble the first bent (back wall).  Is there a preferred technique to approach the assembly?  ie: if I connect the tie to post1, should I then connect post2 at the other end of the tie or do the braces for post1 come first?  After the two bents are complete, what next?

Any comments appreciated.

Bill

[Jim_Rogers]

When we put a frame together we do a "full frame fit up" first. That is we test each tenon into the mortise that it is intended to go into when the frame is finally put together. We usually do this on top of saw horses like this:



Above is a shot of a wall, not a bent. We test the walls first and then the bents. That way we can leave the bents together, if we are doing this frame fit up on the deck, for the raising.

When we check a joint we make sure that the shoulders of the timber seat to the housing correctly. If they don't then we need to figure out why. Or better still we need to figure out where there needs to be an adjustment made. If you trim off the wrong spot you may make it worse. Understand the "where" is very important.

I believe I wrote up a story about a brace fit up, when I was doing the fit up shown above.

I searched for the story and here is the link:
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,7605.0.html

To answer your question. I would fit the tie to the post and make sure it is square and true. That is that the outside of the post is 90° to the top of the tie. And that the shoulder of the tie is flush and closed with the housing in the post. Then slide it apart enough to slip in the brace. Pull it back up so that the tie is seated in the post housing and then check for a 90° fit. You may have to use the 3-4-5 layout system to check for square.

Once you have one side done, do the other side.

When you have both sides done, and the bent is fully assembled, check distance across the tie beam. And check the distance across the base of the posts and see if they match. As mentioned in the story I provided the link to above.
 

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Jim

[Brad_bb]

Can't wait to see your pictures!

I like the look of Thomas' outhouse.  I'm thinking of the same thing, but can you do it in Port-a-potty fashion?  I'll have to investigate the catch tanks of port-a-pottys to see if you could do this.

[Jim_Rogers]

Can't wait to see your pictures!

I like the look of Thomas' outhouse.  I'm thinking of the same thing, but can you do it in Port-a-potty fashion?  I'll have to investigate the catch tanks of port-a-pottys to see if you could do this.

Brad:
Yes you can do it with tanks.

I did some drafting work for a timber framer in RI who does some out houses using modern tank insides.

Here is a link to his site:

http://www.theburgessfarm.com/outhouses.htm

I visited his farm and I don't remember seeing the outhouse in his yard. Maybe he sold it.

Jim

[ballen]

Well, I have finally cut all the pieces and done my first fit up.  Only have to draw bore the tenon holes still.  It took longer than expected (in my scarce free time) but it really is a strong *&^% house!


 

[beenthere]

Nice
Makes that 8' stepladder look pretty small....

[Brad_bb]

I just realized that the outhouse in the original pic will not work as is.  The floor joist needs to go the opposite direction in order to have the hole centered in the rear of the outhouse.  So disappointed that none of you caught that...    

[Rooster]

Um,...it's a "two-seater"?

Or with an interior partisan it will be divided for "Roosters" and "Hens/Chicks"?

[Brian_Weekley]

Move to the left, move to the right, stand up, sit down, fight, fight, fight!

[Jim_Rogers]

If that is a 8' tall ladder, it most likely is a two seater but it's an over and under.......

The downstairs person doesn't have the best seat in the house......

[Brad_bb]

I think that's a 4' step ladder.  If that were an 8 footer, that wouuld give a whole different perspective on that picture.  I want to hear Ballen tell us.  I think those corner posts are about 4X5inches, substantial for an outhouse.

[ballen]

:-) Hadn't thought of a 2 story outhouse:-)

The step ladder in the picture is a 4 footer.  I have just under 83" under the front tie beam.  Just enough for a 2" floor and a regular door frame.
Brad, the posts and sills are 4x6 but very rough....one barely had 5 1/2" so there is very little housing on that one.  All the wood was salvaged from an old barn that fell near me...it's already 100 years old...reuse, recycle, repurpose!  I thought of using 4x6 for the tie beams but didn't have enough.  All the rest is 4x4...very rough...had to use square rule to get it all to work.

No need to worry about the floor joist interfering with...um...business.  I will be using a self contained composting toilet.

This will also be an experiment in passive heating.  NE PA tends to be cold...I will be putting a solar air heater on the south side and thermal mass in the "attic" (2 liter bottles full of water) and under the floor (rocks) and will circulate hot air during the day.  I will be putting a layer of wood, then 2 layers of rigid foam then wood siding with lots of overhang and gable.  It will be the worlds fist Passive House outhouse:-)  In fact, I hope it will be so tight that I will need to supply make up air for the exhaust fan in the toilet.  I plan to do an earth tube to precondition the incoming air....maybe even some kind of home made heat exchanger....

Will run power to it for now but will eventually put a PV panel on the roof.  A fun experiment.

Thanks to everyone for teaching me timber framing.  I learned everything on this forum or the guild documentation. Did it all with a one inch chisel and antique boring machine Jim sold me.

Best,
Bill

[Brad_bb]

That's awesome Bill!