Author Topic: ams oil? (Read 1615 times)

SasquatchMan · « **on:** October 21, 2003, 07:21:59 pm »

I've heard of people using "ams" oil, run at 100:1... Anyone here use/know of this stuff?

Kevin · « **Reply #1 on:** October 21, 2003, 07:36:51 pm »

This is what I found ...

http://www.amsoil.com/products/aio.html

AMSOIL Pre-Mix, 100:1, Synthetic 2-Cycle Oil (ATC) is the ultimate small engine lubricant. It is recommended for API TC, JASO FC, and ISO-EGD applications including, but not limited to chain saws, mopeds, scooters, weed eaters, lawn mowers, leaf blowers, chop saws, go-carts, motorcycles, snowmobiles, and pumps. Mix with gasoline at 100:1 for normal service in air or liquid cooled applications. For “Severe Duty” applications such as racing and continuously operated industrial or commercial work motors, richer mix ratios of 50:1 to 80:1 are recommended. Not recommended for use in oil injection systems.

The only reason I can think of not to use it is being on the road and forgetting to bring the synthetic oil.
Chances of finding it at a roadside gas station is slim up here.
My understanding is once you start using it you shouldn't switch back, not sure why?

Gus · « **Reply #2 on:** October 21, 2003, 08:00:34 pm »

Many competitors use synthetics in their Hot Saws. They mix a little more tho, but then those things are screamers. I just picked up a hot saw. A 2100 husky. Gonna tone it down a bit and use it on mill.
Gus

Minnesota_boy · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2003, 08:15:34 pm »

Amsoil has been around for more than 20 years. I've never had the guts to try that thin mix, but one of my neighbors seems to like it real well.

SawInIt CA · « **Reply #4 on:** October 21, 2003, 09:51:45 pm »

I run it in my saw....sawshop swears by it

SasquatchMan · « **Reply #5 on:** October 21, 2003, 10:04:27 pm »

The people that use it seem to like it - I was reading on (*gulp*) some other forum, and a few guys recomended the amsoil over anything else... just wondered if the millers/ loggers thought highly of it too... I've never even seen it, but then I haven't been looking either...

Gus · « **Reply #6 on:** October 22, 2003, 09:56:55 am »

Awhile back I was looking at synthetics at TSC. One of the clerks said he used it in everything he had that was 2 cycle. He said it was idiot proof

. Said it didn't matterr what the mix was just pour a jug into a gallon of gas and WALLAH! Your all mixed up. I tried it on my old 034 and it didn't seem to dislike it any.
Gus

Kevin · « **Reply #7 on:** October 23, 2003, 08:30:09 pm »

Here's a little something I found at Madsens ...

Synthetics, once very popular with saws, have dwindled in use. I've used synthetics for years at a ratio of 100:1, and they worked good, but stopped using them when Gasohol and other strange additives started being widely used. A technical publication I got once stated that for every one percent of gasohol, your engine runs 10 degrees hotter. That means a gas blend with 10% gasohol causes the engine to run 100 degrees hotter. This added heat along with a hotter burning, leaner mix can lead to disaster too. Too much heat on the exhaust side creating a seizure was becoming all too common. We recommend petroleum based oil products at no leaner than a 50:1 ratio.

Gus · « **Reply #8 on:** October 23, 2003, 09:01:00 pm »

Hard to argue with that kind of reasoning Kevin

Kevin · « **Reply #9 on:** October 23, 2003, 09:18:48 pm »

I agree.
You learn something everyday!

jokers · « **Reply #10 on:** October 23, 2003, 09:19:44 pm »

Madsen`s have a fine site in many ways and some good info is also available there. The problem lies with sorting through the misinformation and typos there. Of course it is their perogative to put whatever they want on their site, but keep in mind that some of it is merely opinion. If you were to statistically examine the demographic of the typical Madsen`s customer and what type of oil they use, you would more than likely find they predominantly use OEM mix oil. Where does Madsen`s get the supporting evidence for their theory reagrding synthetic oil? Virtually every other type of activity involving two stroke engines, including the truly high performance, has seen a mass migration to synthetics with excellent results

I`ve been running Mobil MX2T, a full synthetic, in my saws since the beginning of the year and I`m very happy with it. I run 40:1 with minimal smoke and no plug fouling. I`ve got two saws that are works in progress so I tear them down periodically. Since switching to the MX2T, there is virtually no carbon buildup and all of the internal parts have a nice slippery oil film on them.

I don`t understand or appreciate the logic of anyone who feels they need to run a fuel/oil ratio of 100:1. What are they trying to accomplish, saving a few coins on every gallon of saw mix?

I also read the thread at the Tool Shed about the guy with the new Stihl and Amsoil. If you read his thread carefully you will note that he just got the saw and it appears that he hadn`t even run it on the Amsoil yet when he was claiming it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. How would he know? Because the dealer told him so. Rule #1, never trust a dealer of anything unless you know what they are saying is true based on an independent source.

FWIW, I`ve given up trying to offer anything to the people who post at the Tool Shed regarding saws. There only seems to be two types. The somewhat more knowledgeable who participate in give and take, but by and large the place is populated by the other type, idiots and liars who won`t be swayed by logic. Sorry if I`ve broken the Gentleman`s Code of Conduct here for saying that, but it conveys my point.

Russ

Kevin · « **Reply #11 on:** October 24, 2003, 05:10:00 am »

This is what interested me the most ...

Quote

Too much heat on the exhaust side creating a seizure was becoming all too common.

These guys works on hundreds if not thousands of saws, if there was a problem I would think they would see it long before anyone else.
This was the first that I had actually read anything detrimental about synthetics.
Maybe the mix ratio is the problem, maybe it's the additives in the fuel, maybe it's the new emission standards on the saws.??

Mark M · « **Reply #12 on:** October 24, 2003, 08:30:56 am »

Synthetics usually have better high heat and low temp characteristics than conventional oils. Since they are created with the desired properties by combining discrete chemical units they are usually superior. Conventional oils on the other hand are made from a mixture of stuff (crude oil) that is separated or altered by various physical and chemical processes and as such almost always have some undesired contaminants (which may or may not impact performance).

Just because an oil is superior does not mean it is cost effective. Unless there is a measurable benefit then there is no good reason to use a synthetic or more expensive oil. I myself use either Stihl or Husky conventional oil in my 2 cycle engines and would be very reluctant to use a leaner mixture than the saw manufacturer recommends. In fact I use an approx 45:1 mix (2.6 oz to 0.9 gal). It doesn't smoke or fowl the plugs and I think it provides a little extra lubrication. In my vehicles I use Mobil 1 5W30 because of the cold weather characteristics.

Mark

jokers · « **Reply #13 on:** October 24, 2003, 11:35:41 am »

Well I`m firmly convinced that the MX2T is a better oil than OEM Stihl or Husky oil and at $3.49/pint from Auto Zone it`s cheaper too. The OEM oils are pretty good quality but at the lower ratios they do leave more carbon buildup in the engines. As you are probably aware, carbon poses a risk of mechanical damage.

I have alot of money in my saws. I don`t have any cheap junkers and almost all of them have been modified which is an additional investment. The synthetics have been shown to protect the crank bearings better at the higher speeds and since it costs the same or less than Stihl or Husky oil I think I`ll stay with it.

The scoring on the exhaust side of the jug and piston that Kevin and Madsens speak of could be from too lean an oil ratio which is only related to sythetics because some manufacturers push them as a way to economize. The scoring could also be indicative of lean sieze or carrying fuel in milk jugs, hard to say that it is all attributable to using synthetic oil.

Just my two cents, of course you can do what you want.

Russ

Gus · « **Reply #14 on:** October 24, 2003, 11:44:16 am »

Interesting points guys.
Gus

Mark M · « **Reply #15 on:** October 24, 2003, 12:25:48 pm »

I can't think of any reason there would be a problem with the synthetic oil for the reasons you and I both mentioned Russ. I too think the problem is too lean a mixture. If you don't have enough oil it doesn't matter what type you are using.

Mark

Larry · « **Reply #16 on:** October 24, 2003, 02:52:19 pm »

I switched to Pennzoil synthetic oil in my outboard motor about 3 years ago because I was having a problem with OEM oil. I do a lot of trolling sometimes up to 10 hours at a time. After about 2 to 4 hours of trolling the plugs fowl and the motor burps with OEM oil. Had to put the motor in neutral and rev it up a few times to clean it out. After switching to the synthetic I could troll all day and the engine never burps. A few other benefits showed up after putting about 20 gallons through the outboard. I gained almost 200 rpms on the topend, the layer of carbon inside of the prop hub disappeared, and smoking decreased a lot.

Right now I'm sitting on the fence about switching to AMS synthetic in my Husky saws. Never had a problem with OEM oil but if there is something better I would like to use it. Russ made some very good comments and Mark said something that tweaked my ears. "Synthetics usually have better high heat and low temp characteristics than conventional oils." Not for sure what that means but I do 90% of my logging when the temperature is between 0 and 32 degrees. Mark would the synthetics provide better lubrication at these temperatures?

Gus · « **Reply #17 on:** October 24, 2003, 08:24:10 pm »

That MX2T is exactly what they were running in that 2100 hot saw I bought recently. Guy swore by it, said he wouldn't run anything else.
Gus

Mark M · « **Reply #18 on:** October 25, 2003, 03:28:38 pm »

Hi Larry

It sure wouldn't hurt but I don't know if you would notice a difference because viscosity probably isn't much of a factor due to the dilution with gas. In 4 cycle engines it makes a big difference because of the -60 pour point. I don't plug my car in any more unless it is going to be -25 or colder.

I would think one of the biggest advantages is there should be less ash and other deposit forming compounds in the oil, in fact I think I will get some syn oil and give it a try. For no more than what I use cost isn't an issue. In my job we are always trying to help our customers get the lowest operating cost so I can't recommend synthetic oil for a diesel unless temperature is a problem. At 3 to 4 times the cost it isn't justifiable for normal applications.

Mark

PS - syn oils really shine at high temps too and are less likely to break down.

Minnesota_boy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 25, 2003, 06:23:02 pm »

I was having trouble with the oil pressure on my Onan pushing oil around the filter when it got cold out. I started running synthetic in it and now I have trouble with circuit breakers and fuel pump instead, but at a much lower temperature. I have trouble with my hands freezing then too, so I just take a day off when it gets below -15. The Onan will start without a problem at -20, but I won't.

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Author Topic: ams oil? (Read 1615 times)