Stihl 031av...doa?

[jim s]

I have an old Stihl 031av saw that needs a new coil per the local small engine repair shop.  They also said the part has been discontinued, so the saw is history.

I'm kind of attached to this saw since it was a wedding present back in 1980.  Is there any hope in finding a new or used coil anywhere?  A few years ago the repair shop converted it with an electronic ignition module. 

I own six acres in the country, and don't use a chainsaw much any more, but I do have trees to trim, standing dead trees to fell, etc.  I have a carrying case, 16" and 18" bars, and a couple chains for this saw too.

If I do need to look for a new or newer saw, is Stihl still a good brand, or has it been surpassed by others such as Husqvarna or Jonsereds?

Thanks,

Jim

[jteneyck]

This may be what you're looking for:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stihl-031-Ignition-Coil-Flywheel-Module-Trigger-030-/250621999122?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5a3c3812

If not, keep looking on E-bay, etc., and one likely will turn up and then you or your dealer will be able to install it. 

[JohnG28]

You could also try chainsawr.com, they might have or be able to find one for you.  And if you do need to buy another saw, then yes Stihl is still a good brand, as well as Husqvarna, Jonsered, Echo...If you get to that point there are plenty of people here that can help you in choosing a saw that will be right for you.

[joe_indi]

I have an old Stihl 031av saw that needs a new coil per the local small engine repair shop.  They also said the part has been discontinued, so the saw is history.

That sure is some ripe stuff thats  come out of the rear end of a bull!!

The latest parts list  (2010) still shows  parts for the 031.
According to the list what you need is 'Ignition Coil (Electronic) ' part number 1113 400 1301, that is, if as you say, the ignition system has been converted to the electronic type.
But if it still has breaker points part number 1113 400 1300 is what you will need.
Both are in the list.
If its available to a guy like me in a remote 3rd world country, I dont see no reason why your local repair shop  cannot make it available to you.

[bandmiller2]

There is a large small engine aftermarket company called Stens I think they still list that coil.Frank C.  ps I still have a  1976  031 still running strong.Stihl is still one of the top saws.

[ladylake]

Right now both Stihl and Husky make good saws and not so good saws with a big difference in quality from top to bottom, not like it used to be when they only made good saws.  If your not using a saw much one of the home owner models should be OK , with any saw that doesn't get used much try and use gas without ethonal, add a little extra Stabil or Seafoam and try and start it up every month or 2.   Steve

[Ford_man]

I have an 041 Farmboss  1974 it has been a great saw. If a dealer told me it had a problem like you have and said parts are not available , I would go to another dealer. you may not have a coil problem, there other things that can cause simular problems.

[Al_Smith]

It's a well known fact that not all dealers are the same . Some are very knowledgeable ,some are not .

The possibility exists that if it is in fact a solid state coil it could be defective but on a points types that would be rare .If that be the case chances are it's the condenser or even just tarnished or miss set points .

For reasons unknown to me modern day saw shop wrenchers are somewhat baffled by points ignitions .Find some old coot like me who has been around the things and you stand a better chance of getting it repaired .

BTW the Stens deal is the fact you have to have a minimum order of 100 dollars .

[jim s]

Thanks everyone for the advice.  I'm not ready to give up on the saw yet, but don't want to order a coil myself not knowing for sure if that is even the problem.

 A couple months ago, I had a retired fellow look at it.  He was a tree trimmer before retirement, and still dabbles in chainsaw repairs as a hobby.  He told me the saw was not worth fixing because seals in the motor were shot not allowing it to keep enough vacuum to keep running at an idle.  I discounted his theory right away and took it to the small engine repair shop where they said the coil was bad.  So apparently I'm getting all kinds of faulty advice from the local shops.

Does anyone know a good chainsaw repair shop in So Maine?

Thanks,

Jim

[sablatnic]

It can very well have bad seals. Both of mine have bad seals. And leaking metering valves too, but their ignitions still work. Do you get a spark? and if, how long then? and don't use a steel ruler to measure it!

[bandmiller2]

Al,do you mean a Stens dealer has to have a $100 order or the customer has to order at least $100 from a Stens dealer?? or is that the price of the coil??Frank C.

[Al_Smith]

In this area there are three Stihl dealers within 15 miles and I only deal with one .That guy told me that any Stens order has a minimum of 100 dollars .I doubt a coil would be 100 bucks but you never know because a 2100 Huskey coil cost's tad more than that .

I doubt though that it's the coil but you know it's almost impossible to trouble shoot over the internet .We all try to though .

[joe_indi]

--you know it's almost impossible to trouble shoot over the internet .We all try to though .

Now, Al has raised a very valid point there. You need more inputs to do that.
And, jim s, you have not told us  what exactly is the problem with the saw.
Okay, the local shop claims it needs a new coil, but  could you be more descriptive on the symptoms that you experienced for you to have taken it to the repair shop in the first place?

[jim s]

Here are the symptoms:

a couple years ago the saw became very hard to start.  I'd pull and pull and pull before it would finally fire and stay running.  I took it to the local repair shop (that is a full time business repairing all sorts of small engines), and they put the electronic ingnition module in it and it ran better the next few times I used it.

Last fall I used it to trim some brush etc, and it would start and run, but not idle down.  I'd have to keep bumping the throttle to keep it from stalling.  I took the carb apart and cleaned it out, and made sure the fuel filter in the gas tank pick up line was clean.  And I'm aware of the ethanol demon.  I used fairly fresh gas treated with Startron that my Stihl leaf blower was happy with.

Early this year the retired tree trimmer was over, and offered to look at the saw.  He fealt the seals were bad allowing air/vacuum leaks leading to poor idling.

One day last month I needed to use it, and it started up and ran fine for 5 minutes or so as I tried to cut a stump off.  I shut it off, then couldn't get it started again.  Sounded like it wasn't firing/getting any spark.  That's when I took into the local small engine shop again, and they came back with the coil problem analysis, and the coil part being discontinued.  I called the local Stihl dealer, and they said the same thing...coil has been discontinued.

It's going to rain today, so I'll have a chance to look at it in the shop.  See for myself if it really does have spark.  Does a coil die instantaneously, or does it get weaker and weaker over time?  The last day I used it, it started and ran fine until I shut it off.

If the seals are worn out, won't that problem only show up when the saw is hot and the metals expand a little?  Or is it the other way around...the problem would be worse when it's cold?

Thanks for all the advice

Jim

[chainsawr]

While in the shop today do a visual spark check.  Also try to feel for any play in the crankshaft, that is the easiest, quickest way to say "yes absolutely crank seals"

Your conversion chip replaced the points and condenser.  So, you need an original points type coil if you do in fact need a coil.  The part that was put in to replace your points and condenser may also be faulty.  It is known to happen.  The 031 is notorious for ignition problems.  (I have a waiting list for this part)

The coil is no longer available new from Stihl.  It is one of those things you can put on infinite back order. 

I'm a Stens dealer.  The minimum is as little as I feel like spending.  Although they do not carry any replacment coils for older Stihls.

[thecfarm]

Can't really help you in Southern ME.I know of a guy about 10 minutes from me that could probaly tell you what was wrong with it.But who knows for sure.Just a small engine guy.Has a small sign out by the road.Must have some in youir area?Lucky that saw is still going.I had a 032 back in the 80's.Still run good,but needed seals bad.Would leak out a tank of gas and oil through the night.

[joe_indi]

It's going to rain today, so I'll have a chance to look at it in the shop.  See for myself if it really does have spark.  Does a coil die instantaneously, or does it get weaker and weaker over time?  The last day I used it, it started and ran fine until I shut it off.

If you have a digital tachometer its very easy to tell if your coil is actually developing a sparkable current.
Just hold the tach against the ignition lead and pull the starter.
If the current is good the tach will show a reading.
Check the ignition lead for any places where the insulation has worn off.
Try the saw with the switch wires disconnected, bare switch wires could give the kind of symptoms that you mentioned.
If the current is good, here are a couple of things to consider.
If the seals are blown, you would not be bumping that throttle because the idle revs would be high as it is.
If it is  a rich mixture problem the spark plug would be black and wet.Cause could be a leaking metering needle or a rigid metering diaphragm.
If it is partial lean mixture problem,the reason could be  from a partial block in the carburetor , a faulty check valve (valve jet) , a metering diaphragm gone too rigid or a leaking pump diaphragm.

[Al_Smith]

If in fact the seals are bad,considering the saws age that comes as no surprise .The procceedure is relatively simple .

Peel the engine down until you reach the seal then pop a tiny hole in the metal portion with an ice pick then lightly screw in a drywall screw and pull the offending seal .Oil up the inside of the new seal and shaft of the saw and tap the new one in place using a deep wall socket. Easy as falling off a log .

Numbers are -#9640-003-1340 ,flywheel side and 9640-003-2390  clutch side .Some seals can be cross referenced for genaric replacements,some cannot .

[jteneyck]

Great post, Joe.  Now I will know how to check if the ignition coil is good the next time I have need to do so.  Using a tach. is so obvious.  I don't have one - yet, but I doubt I would have thought of it even if I did.  Where were you when I had a problem like this a week or so ago?  Just kidding.  Thanks. 

[jim s]

So here's what I've done today.  Pulled the plug, hooked a wire with alligator clips on each end to the prong of the plug and to the fins on the block.  Pulled starter several times with no spark at the plug.  Tried this with the ignition switch on and off.

Then I got the digital tach and clipped one lead to the block and inserted the other into the plug wire.  When I pulled the starter, I got a momentary reading on the gauge which was too hard to quantify.  I'd get this reading whether the ignition switch was on or off.

Finally I hooked my compression gauge to and pulled the starter.  I got a gigh reading after 4-5 pulls of 150psi.

That $200 Husqvarna at the hardware store is looking better and better, especially when I found that it weighs almost half as much as my 031.

Jim

[Rocky_J]

...
That $200 Husqvarna at the hardware store is looking better and better, especially when I found that it weighs almost half as much as my 031.

Jim

Yup, go buy the $200 hardware store saw. Think of all the money you'll save. 

[HCO41]

Had to get on this one.  Been having the same problem with one of my 031s.  I had a chip put in it to eliminate points and condenser, some improvement but had miss at high RPM.  Checked it out and found plug gaspped real tight.  I opened it up to .020, started it and it reved but wouldn't idle no matter what I did, adjust carb., etc.  I  squeezed plug down to approx. .010 and saw idled but miss was back.  This must be a trick to get spark enough to idle with weak coil (less resistance).  I'm going to beat thebushes for a new or good used coil.  Have no experience with other posts (seals, etc.), but honestly think the coil is the problem.

[bandmiller2]

Seems there would be enough demand for 031 ignition parts to interest the aftermarket suppliers. Is there any outher coil that  would fit off a different saw.?? Frank C.

[mrcaptainbob]

I ran into this issue with my old 031, too. Handed it off to my son. He took the coil out, carefully trimmed the fine wire back and soldered on a new lead. THen epoxied it back up. Oh yeah, he then handed it back to me about a year ago. It's now the backup saw to my 310. And by the way...that 031 will pace that 310....

[blackoak]

Seems there would be enough demand for 031 ignition parts to interest the aftermarket suppliers. Is there any outher coil that  would fit off a different saw.?? Frank C.

Actually the ignition coil on the 031 saws were hardly ever the culprit when the saw looses spark. 99% of the time when working on 031's with the points-condenser type ignition systems it was the condenser that failed. The condenser is still available from Stihl, but costly. I have converted many using an after market megafire electronic module chip available at most Nappa auto parts stores, or Ebay that does away with the points and condensers. Do a google search on 031 ignition chip and you will find all sorts of info on how to do this swap. I have brought back to life many 031's that were deemed un-fixable by Stihl dealers looking to sell someone a "new" saw.