More Hack-N-Squirt

[Magicman]

I had a bit of mill trouble today, so I went over to the tree farm and Hack-N Squirted the Sweetgums where I planted the Cherrybark Oaks.

Since Arsenal is now $65 per quart, that is the herbicide that I am using this year.  I did some last week and they are already showing signs of "illness",.....

Also, I'm using a "Woodsman's Pal" for the hacking, and it's really doing a good job.  I can twist it and create a sort of cup with the bark which really holds the herbicide.....
 

[pasbuild]

Time fer a dumb question
why not harvest the trees for fire wood or some other use as apposed the hack-n-squirt

[Magicman]

Sweetgum doesn't make firewood.  I planted Cherrybark oaks in these plots, and killing the existing trees will remove the over-story.  Bottom line, I'm trading up for quality.

Here is an older thread:   http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,40625.0.html

It answered many questions.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Up north in the cold climate everything makes firewood. 

[Texas Ranger]

It would take a cord of oak to burn two sticks of sweetgum, we use it for back logs, saves the brick.

[SwampDonkey]

I have no opinion on your process and what your trying to accomplish. But, leave a few for the wood peckers I suppose and burn the rest. Have the hard hat handy when going  for a stroll in the woods in the aftermath. I know what the woods is like with all them dead white birch towering over your head while trying to thin the fir regrowth and walking over blow downs.

One question though, does sweet gum proliferate like weeds? I can imagine the flush of new gums coming up around them oak with the over story killed.

[Magicman]

My goal is for the dead and falling Sweetgums to provide a virtual jungle which will keep deer out.  This should protect the new Cherrybark red oaks from being rubbed by the bucks.

I cut the "momma" tree in 2005 which was seeding this area.....

[ljmathias]

Sweet gum is definitely an "invasive species" but then we have a lot of those down here.  I spend more time trying to control all the bush-trees that spring up around the bases of pines and oaks and pecans- I can hack and squirt, cut and squirt or just squirt and they just laugh and send up more shoots.  Only real solution is to dig up roots and all with a backhoe and you can't do that too close to a tree you want to keep...

Bottom line is: keep fighting and someday you'll die and it'll be your kids problem.

Lj

[Magicman]

I was not really pleased with the results of the Pathway that I used last year.  Some died.  Some put out shoots, which have then died this Spring.  Some appear to be living.

I do not have the time to re-do anything.  Done once, I expect it to stay done.  Arsenal this year. 

[woodtroll]

I understand about going in twice to get a good kill, but watch that soil activity. Arsenal will move from speciecs to species if the roots are close. Combine it with wet or moist soil it can be more of a problem.

The seedlings may not be big enough or have enough roots yet for it to be a problem. But I have seen stands with the arsenal hack and squirt used, it killed off a percentage of decent cherry bark crop trees.
I am hoping it does not happen to you, you have put a lot of work in.
 

[Magicman]

I'm hoping that it won't be a problem in my case, because all of the Cherrybarks are freshly planted.

[SwampDonkey]

I can remember Princep and having to be careful with the timing (85 kg per ha in spring) of the planting of pine after the ground was sprayed. The spray had to be applied before green-up or it wasn't too effective. Some times the second season you had worst weeds than if you left it alone or plowed the field, bedstraw and vetch usually got released. 

[WDH]

Sweetgum suckers prolifically from the roots.  It can be very difficult to eradicate.  Your approach should pay dividends.

[ibseeker]

This will likely be a problem for me as well. Two years since the logging was completed and there is an abundance of beech and sweetgum coming up as well as the pine finally taking off. So if I understand this correctly, using Arsenal can be somewhat effective but can also be hazardous to other species that you'd like to keep...sound about right? I'm not too concerned about killing some of the newly regenerated growth and I'm guessing the Arsenal won't have a long residual effect. If the areas have only regenerated growth will Arsenal be more of a problem or less? Is there a better product for this situation, that is young regenerated growth?

[Magicman]

I'm sure that the "expert" Foresters can/will jump on this question.  But with pine, Arsenal and Escort are normally used as a spray to rid a pine plantation of unwanted hardwoods, weeds, grass, etc.   Mixed properly, these chemicals do not harm pines.  I am dealing with 2" to 10" Sweetgum, Pecan, and Honey Locust that, because of size, can't be sprayed, and am reforesting with Cherrybark oak, which would be killed if I could spray.

That's why I'm selectively killing these unwanted species.  What I am doing is very labor intensive.  I takes about 1½ hours to squirt a quart of herbicide.  I've used 2½ gallons.

[SwampDonkey]

A few years back, Monsanto sent us some javelin type injection system. You loaded .22 shells that had been packed with Vision herbicide. The idea was to jab the aspen tree bark with one of those shells per inch of diameter. The tree was to take the herbicide from the pellet and transport to the root system and in a few weeks have dead aspen. We tried it on a couple sites and it was complete failure, never killed any of the trees. The problem was, the big flaw in the experiment so to speak, the bark plugged the shells tight so the herbicide could not escape. Between you and me, I think the bark was suppose to be scraped to cambium with the javelin end, but we were told it was just a jab and that was it.

[Magicman]

This year, using the Woodsman's Pal, I'm able to give it a little twist which forms a "cup" with the bark, and squirt the herbicide directly on the camdium layer.

I think that my procedure/method and herbicide is better this year.  Thankfully, I will complete the targeted areas this year.

[WDH]

I like to use a cut off heavy duty machete instead of a hatchet.  I use Tordon 101 M, but like arsenal, it is soil active, so care must be taken to keep it on just the target trees.  I have not had any problem with it killing untargeted trees. 

Lynn,

Do you use the Arsenal at full strength, or do you dilute it?

[ibseeker]

Lynn,
 Sounds like you've been at this a while with the hours per quart math. Seems like most of the stuff I accomplish in the forest is labor intensive.

[Magicman]

Do you use the Arsenal at full strength, or do you dilute it? 

My printout said to dilute 6oz per gallon, but it was simpler for me to just use 8oz per gallon.  I'm using a quart squirt bottle, so I could refill my gallon jug easily by adding 2oz per quart.

I hope to go tomorrow to my sawsite, put the power feed back to work on the sawmill, and then on to the tree farm and finish up the squirt areas that have been planted.

I'll then have about an acre that has a good stand of volunteer trees that I'll go in and "fix" the Sweetgum, Honey Locust, and Pecan.  Then I'll be finished.....