Husqvarna 339XP/338XP or eqivalent in 10lb or less

[tbrickner]

Hi All,

I was wondering what is a good all round professional saw in the maximum 16" bar length range. 

I was looking for a really light weight saw with good power and durability to handle a lot of small limbing jobs.  Are the Husqvarna 339 or 338XP's any good or are there better more durable products out there.

Thanks,
Tom

[Rocky_J]

Most non-pro users balk at the price (I can offer up the last thread discussing this as proof) but the undisputed top dog for a lightweight and powerful small saw is the Stihl MS200 or MS200T. The T is for the top handle and the top choice of climbing arborists while the MS200 is the rear handled version and a wicked fast limbing saw in a lightweight package.

If you have a budget of less than $600 then ignore my post and shop around for something else.

[tonto]

Rocky hit the nail on the head - totally agree. Tonto.

[sawguy21]

That little Stihl has really set the standard for light weight trimming saws. If price is an issue, have a look at Echo. Husqvarna dropped the ball with the 335XPT and never recovered the pro market's confidence.

[Al_Smith]

They claim the 338 is light years better that the 335's .I really have no idea .As for the 335's I have three in the shed a few tree trimmers just gave up on .

The oilers were bad on all three .I replaced one which is cheap but a pain to do .Now don't you know just last week it hung on me tighter than a bulls butt at fly time for reasons yet to be determined .

As for the little Stihl ,a Jack Russel terrier of saws ,the top  dog .If you ever saw and understood the porting on that thing you would see right away why it has so much power .It came from the factory a hot rod .---then if you fool with it a bit .

[tbrickner]

Sounds like the Stihl 200 would be the one for me.

I'll have to save in my piggy bank for that one but from what the specs say that would probably do the job for me and last a life time too.

Thanks for the info.  I was wondering why the Huskies were so much cheaper.  Now I know why.  I am willing to spend the money on someting good I just don't want to dump it on a dog that won't hunt.  Thanks again for the info on the Huskies.  Glad I wasn't tempted to buy one.

Thanks again,
Tom

[Al_Smith]

If you want a new 200T it will be about 600 .If however you have little patience you can find a decent used one for maybe half that .

It just depends on being at the right place and right time .Also if you are not a saw mechanic the best bet would be to buy new .If you can turn a wrench though you can save a ton of money .Then again I guess were that the case this thread would never have came up .

[Rocky_J]

Al, good used ones rarely turn up unless they are stolen. The 200T is probably one of the most popular models for jobsite thieves, and arborists who use them to make a living rarely sell them unless they are worn out. There are always exceptions but for the most part it's very rare to find a good, clean, used 200T that isn't hot.

[SawTroll]

Most non-pro users balk at the price (I can offer up the last thread discussing this as proof) but the undisputed top dog for a lightweight and powerful small saw is the Stihl MS200 or MS200T. The T is for the top handle and the top choice of climbing arborists while the MS200 is the rear handled version and a wicked fast limbing saw in a lightweight package.

If you have a budget of less than $600 then ignore my post and shop around for something else.

Have you actually given the 339xp, New Edition 338xpt or 2139t a chance to prove the MS200/200T isn't top dog any more?

To the OP;

16" is a bit much on saws in this class, regardless of brand - 13-14" is more like it!

Also, never use a top-handle saw for ground work!

[Ironwood]

I buy used/ fixed 335 and 338's from my pro saw shop often (they seem to migrate to friend's and such so I am always asking him to cobble another together). I like them, but it does seem for the daily user the T200 is more popular. I like the Huskie and I get them cheap, $150-175.

 Ironwood

[Al_Smith]

  Also, never use a top-handle saw for ground work!

Perhaps better worded it should say never use a top handle unless you know how to handle a saw .

I've used top handles on the ground for decades and never ever had a problem .Fact of the matter is I have one Stihl 200T that will out cut probabley 50 percent of the 3 cube saws made .

Kind of funny because one noted saw builder commented that it was too dangerious to soup up a top handle .My thoughts on that was simpley he didn't know how to plus his big fat sausage fingers wouldn't fit inside the tiny cylinder .

[jteneyck]

Just a brief look in E-bay when this was first posted showed no less than four 200T's for sale, one of which was by a homeowner who had used it for a single job.  Some good ones appear to be out there. 

[Rocky_J]

Just a brief look in E-bay when this was first posted showed no less than four 200T's for sale, one of which was by a homeowner who had used it for a single job.  Some good ones appear to be out there. 

Yup, you believe that. It's not stolen, the homeowner honestly did pay over $600 for a chainsaw for a single job and is selling it for half price on ebay instead of returning it under warranty to the dealer. Never mind that no typical homeowner is going to pay that much for that tiny of a chainsaw unless they know exactly what they are buying.

How gullible are you? 

[Al_Smith]

As a general rule that statement about home owners and 200T's is accurate .

An exception to the rule does come into play now and again .For example the area I live in was the worst hit in the nation a few years back in the giant ice storm . My favorite Stihl dealer sold 3 complete semi's full of saws and the majority were 200T's.

I didn't realize until after the thing was over with that the insurance companies would pay 500 bucks for clean up with basically no questions asked .This was about the price of a 200T back then . My eyes are peeled for them showing up at garage sales because of sitting for 6 years with old fuel and now they won't putt no mo . I'll be the Saw King of little saws in the midwest .

[jteneyck]

Rocky, I just reported what I found.  You chose to interpret it the way you wanted; you may be right, you may be wrong. 

How gullible am I?  Sell me your 200T for $300 and you can think whatever you want. 

[HolmenTree]

I love my MS200T but I got an itching to try something else.
 I'm going to try out Husqvarnas stratocharged T435. From other arborists I talked to they say its a real screamer. I'm also told its a rebadged RedMax GZ 3500.
For only around $300 new the disposable Husky T435 wouldn't hurt the pocketbook so much. Much better then spending $300 on a used MS200T and finding its not so reliable when you're 50 feet off the ground.
Imagine that , a disposable chainsaw.
Willard.

[Al_Smith]

Firstly you have to understand porting methods to even figure out what I'm about to say .If you do though you really have to look into a Stihl 200T . This thing comes from the factory a hot rod .It's built for speed .The time /area of the porting even stock is up around 14,000 rpm .

I have one ported by yours truely which tachs at around 15,200 .

Recently we had a GTG in Pa .The average little trim saw ran two cuts in 8 by 8 poplar in 24 or so seconds .My stock 200 was around 15 .If my ported one would have not had one of it's moments that cut would have been around 11 seconds .C4 fun had a stocker that out ran me once by a quarter of a seond .

Now find another 2 cube saw that runs that well .Never happen . --which is also why they cost 600 bucks .

[HolmenTree]

Yes the 020/ ms200 has come a long ways since 1971. The 020 was Stihl's answer to McCulloch's Mini Mac 6 [6 1/2lb] that revolutionized the industry in 1970.
Competition was fierce in 1970 though, Skil also brought out the 6 1/2lb "Bantam Brute".

Willard.

[Al_Smith]

The original 020 was called the 020AV top handle .A lot different than the later 020T and MS 200 T models .Side mounted carb with a side exit exhaust .I have one in my shed .

The true champion of that period was the Poulan s-25 .I have two of those,one is the first saw I ever bought .
 They are just tad bit lighter than the original 020 top handle and cut at exactly the same speed .Plus the fact they had an oiler button in addition to the auto oiler .

The mini Macs and Homelite XL-2's were basically throw aways .The trimmers would get maybe two years out of them but once they needed repaired they bought another .Those people will give  away now of days .I have not one thin dime in the half dozen of them I own .

[HolmenTree]

 Back in the late 80s early 90s I've heard of guys converting the Poulan S-25AV over to .325 chisel chain. At 2.3 cu.in.[38cc] the Poulan could handle the chain easily.
 The top handle McCulloch Titan 7 [35cc] had a .325 clutch drum/sprocket assembly available. The Poulan did not and a drum had to be rigged up.
Years ago I rigged up a 020 with a .325. A look through the drum parts box, a little grinding yielded me a nice cutting 020. I no longer have that saw , all I remember is the difficulty matching up the drum and oil pump drive.

Willard.

[HolmenTree]

 Somebody could make a good little business making .325 sprocket/drums for the little top handle saws.
Willard.

[SawTroll]

It is easy to convert the 338xpt/2139T to .325 as well, as the rear handle version (339xp) comes with that set-up, at least here.

[HolmenTree]

Thanks SawTroll for the info. I am looking at getting a 338XPT along with the Husqvarna T435 in the next month or so. If I can't find that .325  339XP drum here in North America I may have to order one from you if you don't mind.
Willard.

[HolmenTree]

I did some research on the Husqvarna T435 and I like what I see.
* Air injection for that clean air flter, my MS200 filter is always dirty.
* X-Torque strato design should go alot longer between fuel fills, the thirsty little MS200's gas tank is always empty.
* Excellent engine torque thanks to X-Torque.
*Auto return stop switch [saw is always ready to start and no accidential shutdown], many times I accidently bump the MS200 stop switch in the middle of a critical cut causing saw to die.
 *Smart start helps saw start smoothly with no jerking while in a awkward work position up in a tree, sure wish the MS200 had that.
*Double lanyard tie in position, good idea.
*T435 is reported very loud, this means shouldn't need a muffler mod.
*Muffler exhaust exits at front of saw, now that would be nice.
*7.5 lbs, sounds good to me.
*Price= $300 U.S. , can't go wrong with the cost.
If I need more h.p the 338XPT will fill the void and will have almost all the features of the T435.
I will always keep the MS200 for comparison though
Willard.

[Al_Smith]

Back in the late 80s early 90s I've heard of guys converting the Poulan S-25AV over to .325 chisel chain. At 2.3 cu.in.[38cc] the Poulan could handle the chain easily.
  Willard.

The original s-25's came 1/4" chain,the later with 3/8" low profile,pico whatever you want to call it . Oregon at one time made that 1/4" in full chisel both full comp and skip .

As to .325 on an 020 ,old Gypo showed up once at a GTG with a real handle 020 with .325 on it .The only one so equipted I've ever seen .

In my opinion the only reason to convert one is so you can run chisel chain because I imagine that .325 in semi wouldn't cut any better than pico semi .

[HolmenTree]

I have my MS200 converted over to 1/4"chain . Stihl makes a really nice 1/4" carver chain with boat tailed cutters. I had to install the older 020 plastic ring [oil pump drive] to match up with my 1/4 spur/ drum. The 200s ring will only fit the 3/8 picco spur sprocket.
I favor the 1/4 over the picco because its lighter,narrower, smoother and faster. The 1/4 is as wide of a kerf as the little .043 mini picco but stronger then the mini.
 1/4" is not cheap to buy though.
Stihl introduced the 3/8" extended pitch Picco chain in 1979. Alot of other chain companies now extinct were around at that time, Townsend, Sabre, Kolve to name a few. Alot of variety available back then.
Willard.


  

[Al_Smith]

In a discussion of fast chain for small saws I do believe the Oregon chisel in 1/4" inch is the fastest I've seen .Of course they don't make it any more .

On one of my 200T's I have a 12" mini bar with .043 Carlton which I thought was fast .However my bud in Florida sent me not only a new Stihl 14" bar for a 200 but also a loop of Stihl .050 semi .I'm not so sure now if the Carlton is faster or not even if it does cut a thinner kerf . That Stihl 3/8" pico in .050 impresses me .

[Rocky_J]

Al, that is Stihl 63PM (in case you want to stop at a Stihl dealer and buy another loop). It's the only chain I will run on my top handle saws. It does get down and boogie. 

[SawTroll]

Thanks SawTroll for the info. I am looking at getting a 338XPT along with the Husqvarna T435 in the next month or so. If I can't find that .325  339XP drum here in North America I may have to order one from you if you don't mind.
Willard.

The 339xp come with a rim setup here, and use the same 7-pin rim as the somewhat larger Husky saws. A .325 spur setup is also availiable, as is a 1/4" one.

Here is an IPL that show them all.  Looks like .325 is the only rim uption.

[HolmenTree]

 


The 339xp come with a rim setup here, and use the same 7-pin rim as the somewhat larger Husky saws. A .325 spur setup is also availiable, as is a 1/4" one.

Here is an IPL that show them all.  Looks like .325 is the only rim uption.

Thanks again for the info SawTroll. It appears the 339XP has the same small 7 spline rim as the 346. I was surprised thinking it would be using the mini 7 spline. [3 sizes- mini, small and standard]
I don't mind using a spur sprocket /drum setup.
 I also noticed different pump drives for both types. I'll see if I can order them through my local Husky dealer.
 Here we go... .325 chisel on a 338XPT NE.
Willard

[Rocky_J]

Where are you going to find a 6 pin .325 rim sprocket? That little saw won't pull a 7 pin, it doesn't have enough torque. The Stihl 200T is the torque King of the top handles and it runs a 6 pin sprocket (3/8" picco).

[SawTroll]

Where are you going to find a 6 pin .325 rim sprocket? That little saw won't pull a 7 pin, it doesn't have enough torque. The Stihl 200T is the torque King of the top handles and it runs a 6 pin sprocket (3/8" picco).

Well, the 339xp handles 7-pin .325 just fine, so why wouldn't the 338xpt/2139T do so. That is .325NK though, I never tried chisel chain on mine

I believe .325x6 rims are impossible to make, even for the Stihl "mini-spline"?

[SawTroll]

 


The 339xp come with a rim setup here, and use the same 7-pin rim as the somewhat larger Husky saws. A .325 spur setup is also availiable, as is a 1/4" one.

Here is an IPL that show them all.  Looks like .325 is the only rim uption.

Thanks again for the info SawTroll. It appears the 339XP has the same small 7 spline rim as the 346. I was surprised thinking it would be using the mini 7 spline. [3 sizes- mini, small and standard]
I don't mind using a spur sprocket /drum setup.
 I also noticed different pump drives for both types. I'll see if I can order them through my local Husky dealer.
 Here we go... .325 chisel on a 338XPT NE.
Willard

The "mini 7" is a Stihl only, afaik!

Mostly it is a curse, as Stihl branded rims cost several times the ones branded Oregon, even when they are exactly the same - but 3/8LP x 6 rims are a bonus that is impossible on an ordinary "small 7".

[Al_Smith]

One would think all rims would be the same but not so .I recently discovered  that Oregon  small splines will not work  on Stihl clutch drums .The standards do interchange though .

What had happened is some how I ended up with a small splined drum on a saw I had built up from parts .What it came from is anyones guess .All I had to fit was .325 rims which I find that sized chain to be a pain in the behind .So my only choice which seemed logical was to buy the rim to fit it from a dealer .No big deal,just a few buck more than Oregon .

[HolmenTree]

As far as I can see  a spur drum is only available for the MS200/020.I have never seen 3/8 low profile 6 pin mini rims but I see no reason why they can't be made. The 7 pin .325 small bore rim is only a hair [1/16" ] larger in diameter then the 6 pin 3/8. So I see no problem running a 7 pin .325 on a Husqvarna 338XPT.
 The Ms200 is not ported to be the "torque king", it is all top upper rpm powerband h.p. thats why it needs the smaller 6 pin.
 The 338XPT would cut like crazy with a 1/2 filed back .325 chisel chain.
I got my MS200 and 346XP  converted to 1/4" with a solid body replaceable tip 16"Windsor Mini-Pro bar [none of that laminated crap]. I found a stock pile of brand new 25 year old small mount 16"-.325 Windsor mini pro bars and 1/4" mini- pro tips. I went back to .325 on the 346XP though [a little overkill haha].

 Willard.

[SawTroll]

...... I see no problem running a 7 pin .325 on a Husqvarna 338XPT.
......  

There sure isn't on the 339xp, so why should it be one on the 338xpt???  

[Al_Smith]

.
 The Ms200 is not ported to be the "torque king", it is all top upper rpm powerband h.p. thats why it needs the smaller 6 pin.
 

 Willard.

It could be word usage or terminoligy .How ever I 've yet to see any other but 6 tooth on 3/8" low profile . Now I've got Poulan s-25's .Homelite super Xl 2's ,Husqvarna 338's ,half a dozen mini Macs ,2 Stihl Ms 200t's and one Stihl 020 av top handle ,an Echo of which I forgot the number . Two Skils which are junk .They all have 6 pin 3/8" lo profile .

Funny though the Stihl 200t's out run all the rest .Pretty good I'd say for a non torgue saw .

[HolmenTree]

Al, I agree about the Ms200, my 200 is only runs at WOT and it has all the power I need for a trim saw. A saw with that much top end rpm only needs a 6 pin sprocket and still have lots of chain speed. A larger sprocket may only slow it down a little in the wood. But I want to try the new edition Husky 338XPT, I hear they did some amazing porting work to it too. Like I explained earlier ,I like their features over the MS200.
I try to keep my terminology simple on torque and horse power or I'd have to write a novel to explain it
To me torque is important from idle to 3/4 r.p.m. At max WOT is peak h.p. And that is exactly what the MS200 was ported for.
I got a couple of Stihl 8 pin 3/8" lp Picco rims for a 026/260 with the mini 7 spline. These 8 pin rims are about 1/16" larger in diameter then a standard 3/8" 8 pin rim, which proves the low pro picco 3/8 is a different pitch from the 3/8 standard.
Willard.

[Al_Smith]

Of course pico and standard are not the same . Pico was made to replace 1/4" .

As far as power ,generally speaking the saw engine is either at idle or WOT . Very seldom do they get ran at part throttle unless you are a carver .

The very study of porting schemes is different betweem lower rpm saw engines versus higher speed machines like the 200T .It all has to do with time area .The faster it runs,the shorter the time and thusly needs more area .This translates into horse power no matter how you slice the pie .

For example my old Poulan S-25 has just as much grunt as the 200T but runs a lot slower .It would take extensive work to get it to run as fast as a 200 .On the other hand were the 200 ran at the same speed as the Poulan it wouldn't produce as much power .Apples and oranges .

[SawTroll]

....... These 8 pin rims are about 1/16" larger in diameter then a standard 3/8" 8 pin rim, which proves the low pro picco 3/8 is a different pitch from the 3/8 standard.
Willard.

Sorry, I don't like to correct you, but I feel that I have to correct that statement.

It is true that the lp/picco rim has a larger diameter, but the reason is that the distance from the rivet centres down to the bottom of the tie straps and cutters is smaller.

The pitch is exactly the same on both chain types, .367".     

[HolmenTree]

....... These 8 pin rims are about 1/16" larger in diameter then a standard 3/8" 8 pin rim, which proves the low pro picco 3/8 is a different pitch from the 3/8 standard.
Willard.

Sorry, I don't like to correct you, but I feel that I have to correct that statement.

It is true that the lp/picco rim has a larger diameter, but the reason is that the distance from the rivet centres down to the bottom of the tie straps and cutters is smaller.

The pitch is exactly the same on both chain types, .367".    

SawTroll why do you have to make things so complicated
I tried to keep things simple but I guess I didn't explain it far enough. Yes the pitch between the 2 different 3/8 chains is .750 between the 1st and 3rd rivet then divided by 2 makes .375" [not .367"] .
But you are partly right about the smaller clearances below the rivet. With those smaller clearances to the sprocket, a wider gap between the 2 drive links at the bottom of the tiestraps and cutters has to be made. This is why the picco or low profile chain is called "3/8 extended pitch". Look at a picco or lp spur sprocket and the matching bar nose sprocket and you will see the tips of the teeth are blunt compared to a regular 3/8 sprockets pointy longer tips.
These blunt sprocket teeth fill in the wider gap between the piccos drive links.
A chain and drive sprocket and bar nose sprocket have to be a matched set to mesh cleanly. If you put a 3/8 standard chain on a 3/8 low pro or picco sprockets or vice- versa YOU WILL HAVE THE WRONG PITCH MATCH
Remember...."3/8 extended pitch".

Willard.
 

[SawTroll]

Hello Willard, I agree with all you wrote in your last post, except the .375 vs. .367 issue......

[Al_Smith]

  Well pretty much anybody that knows the difference between a spark plug and a starter rope knows the difference between standard 3/8" and pico . It's really a none issue unless it's more of a pissen match thing .

You know sometimes I kinda get the impression I've seen certain posters under different names on other sites I once posted on . Coincidental perhaps, oldtimers ya know .

[HolmenTree]

Hello Willard, I agree with all you wrote in your last post, except the .375 vs. .367 issue......

Alot of chainsaw millers are making lumber with lp Picco chain with standard 3/8 rims and hardnose bar tips. There is enough give in the rim but not if a 3/8 standard bar  sprocket tip if used. And the same old argument goes on about the 2 being the same pitch.
I measured just now my 8 pin Picco 3/8 rim circumference with a tape measure at the same tooth and the measurement is 5 5/16", the standard 8 pin 3/8 rim -5 1/16 ,a difference of 1/4".
Which concludes the 2 are not the same pitch because of the 2 different drive link geometry, even though the pitch is the same at the rivets.
Niko you have to explain about the .367 vs .375.  
Thanks
Willard.

[John Mc]

Sounds as though the standard 3/8" pitch has more "meat" on the links under the rivets (between the rivets and the bar or rim) than the picco chain has. This would require a smaller diameter rim to wrap around than a picco chain, even though both have the same pitch. Since pitch is the distance between 3 rivets / 2, these chains still have the same pitch, even though they won't wrap around the same sized rim.

[Al_Smith]

Oh my this could go on forever .Gentlemen,they are not the same chain .

If I could post a picture you could see the difference which is as plain as the south end of a north bound goat .3/8" pico compaired to standard is as small as compairing 3/8" standard to .404 .

The drivers on pico only go partially into a standard rim or sprocket .Anyone that would use this stuff on a 100c plus saw to mill with is a braver man than I .Anybody that mills with much less than 100 cc has a lot of time on their hands .Mac Bob tried it once on a Mac 125 and tore it right in two pieces .It is not made to take the power of a big saw plain and simple .Fact being if you go to Oregons' web site it states that as as a caution for those inclined to do so .

If you ever tore that stuff apart on a big saw runnng at power it would take the innards of several cats to sew you back together .

[SawTroll]

Hello Willard, I agree with all you wrote in your last post, except the .375 vs. .367 issue......

Alot of chainsaw millers are making lumber with lp Picco chain with standard 3/8 rims and hardnose bar tips. There is enough give in the rim but not if a 3/8 standard bar  sprocket tip if used. And the same old argument goes on about the 2 being the same pitch.
I measured just now my 8 pin Picco 3/8 rim circumference with a tape measure at the same tooth and the measurement is 5 5/16", the standard 8 pin 3/8 rim -5 1/16 ,a difference of 1/4".
Which concludes the 2 are not the same pitch because of the 2 different drive link geometry, even though the pitch is the same at the rivets.
Niko you have to explain about the .367 vs .375.  
Thanks
Willard.

There is nothing to explain really, except that 3/8" is a rounded off number - it was a non-issue until people started "translating" 3/8" into .375, and assumed that number was accurate. To add to the confusion, some ("smart" )marketing people started calling the 3/8" lp .365........

Just do the maths on a 100' roll of chain (they are 1640dl for both regular and lp).  

Pitch is measured at the centre of the rivets, on a streight chain - not at the chassis while around a sprocket.

Rim diameter is a function of both the pitch and the chassis of the chain, so it can't be used to calculate or prove anything.

[HolmenTree]

??

Pitch is measured at the centre of the rivets, on a streight chain - not at the chassis while around a sprocket.

Rim diameter is a function of both the pitch and the chassis of the chain, so it can't be used to calculate or prove anything.
??


Thanks SawTroll, lets put this to rest I think I scratched my head on this one long enough  I guess we can safely say that the  2 chains are the same pitch but their sprockets are not the same pitch.   ,from what I saw in the different rim tooth spacings when comparing the picco and standard rims together.
Trouble was, when I was heavily into the sawchain years ago none of the pro market I was involved with never used the "consumer" low profile chain. Something we never talked about 
Willard.

[HolmenTree]

.Anyone that would use this stuff on a 100c plus saw to mill with is a braver man than I .Anybody that mills with much less than 100 cc has a lot of time on their hands .Mac Bob tried it once on a Mac 125 and tore it right in two pieces .It is not made to take the power of a big saw plain and simple .Fact being if you go to Oregons' web site it states that as as a caution for those inclined to do so .

If you ever tore that stuff apart on a big saw runnng at power it would take the innards of several cats to sew you back together .

No No No you don't slab the logs and make cants with the little picco chain . Let me explain, I milled lots of lumber with my Stihl 090 and 066 years ago with  Alaskan mills.
If I didn't get into arborist work 10 years ago I'd still be milling and still be broke , but I sure loved doing it though.
I still have my setup, different section lengths of 2"X4" aluminum tubing slabbing rails. I can cut up to 32 foot long lumber when all sections are connected .
 Stihl 090AV- 36" .404 with a 36" Alaskan mill. Stihl 066 Magnum- 18"hardnose with 3/8 lp Picco chain on a 24" Alaskan mill. Stihl 044- 20" to fell ,limb and buck the trees.
I slabbed and cut the cants with the 090 while my helper milled the 2" lumber off the cants [4",6",8"wide]. On the 10" and 12" wide cants I used the 090.
On our best 8 hr day we milled 1200 board feet of 2"X6"X16' spruce lumber [75 pieces].Thats includes trees felled, limbed, bucked and milled right where the trees layed on the forest floor. Beautiful spruce though, 24" dbh average and no limbs for the first 40 ft.
As fast as I could make cants with the 090, my helper was taking off 2"X6" lumber like a cheese slicer with the 066 Magnum and Picco chain. Alot of extra pieces were made with that thin fast cutting chain.
Willard.
 

[SawTroll]

 

At least I got an explaination on why 3/8" lo pro sometimes are referred to as "extended pitch" out of the discussion.

One more piece in the puzzle........

[jteneyck]

On our best 8 hr day we milled 1200 board feet of 2"X6"X16' spruce lumber [75 pieces].

Holy cow, Willard, that's a lot of lumber with an Alaskan Mill, even cutting softwood.  On a good day I might make 150 - 200 BF cutting red oak, maple, or white ash.  The last 20" dia. x 12 ft oak log I cut yielded 14 pieces of varying size, mostly 4/4 and 6/6, about 130 BF total, and took more than 5 hours all included.  Two-by (8/4) lumber would give more BF per hour, as would softwood, but even doubling and doubling again would get me to about half or what you were doing. 

I guess that picco chain really cuts fast.  Would you use it on a Husky 385XP with a 20 or 24" bar cutting hardwood up to about 12" wide? 

John

[Al_Smith]

Yes that must be a record of some sort .1200 bdf is about average with a medium sized portable band saw and a good sawyer .

I don't think even Alan Combs of Pro works fame could do that on the mill he sells plans for .

Now I dislike chainsaw milling myself .However with a Mac 125 in 18" oak I can get about a foot a minute .I've ran 090's  and believe me they aren't any faster .

[SawTroll]

I believe he mentioned two mills, two men, and two saws?   

[Al_Smith]

True he indeed did .That is still a feat .It would be even a better feat to even lift a 24 by 4 or 6 by 16 cant to resaw it .

It's a real chore to lift a 1 by 12 by 16 oak plank by one man . I could at one time but that time has passed . Were the same a full 2 inch it would take two gorrila types and they had better eat their Wheaties .

[HolmenTree]

At least I got an explaination on why 3/8" lo pro sometimes are referred to as "extended pitch" out of the discussion.

One more piece in the puzzle........

Hey Niko, I'm just as confused as you are. I'm going to have to dig out my old Chainsaw Age magazines and get to the bottom of this lo pro sawchain.
I do know from my magazines [ funny thing more info in old magazines then the internet ] I have read Oregon introduced the lo pro 91 series chain in 1975. Both Windsor and Stihl introduced theirs in 1979.
 These chains were only designed for consumer sized saws.
Willard.

[HolmenTree]

On our best 8 hr day we milled 1200 board feet of 2"X6"X16' spruce lumber [75 pieces].

Holy cow, Willard, that's a lot of lumber with an Alaskan Mill, even cutting softwood.  On a good day I might make 150 - 200 BF cutting red oak, maple, or white ash.  The last 20" dia. x 12 ft oak log I cut yielded 14 pieces of varying size, mostly 4/4 and 6/6, about 130 BF total, and took more than 5 hours all included.  Two-by (8/4) lumber would give more BF per hour, as would softwood, but even doubling and doubling again would get me to about half or what you were doing.  

I guess that picco chain really cuts fast.  Would you use it on a Husky 385XP with a 20 or 24" bar cutting hardwood up to about 12" wide?  

John

As I mentioned that production is with 2 chainsaw mills and 2 men who are in top physical condition. If you don't have the physical part you're not going to do it. At the time we both had over 20 years under our belts as cut & skid piecework fallers.
No I wouldn't recommend picco cutting 12" hardwood with a 385XP. After 6-8" I go standard 3/8 or .404 chisel, top plates filed at 10 degrees with the 090.
If I remember correctly on our record day, as I got far enough ahead cutting cants with the 090, I was pipe-clamping two [6" wide X full width of log ] cants together and then ripping off the 2 inch lumber at 12" wide with the 090 [ 2 pieces of 2x6 at the same time]. My helper made good time with the Stihl 066/ picco setup on his own.
My 090 always has had its govenor disabled, never had a breakdown with her. She has balls on the 36" Alaskan mill.
 But even more important if your not a good plus fast chain filer and don't keep the chain sharp as it can be 90% of the time then your not doing so good. My secret..... when needed, very light quick touchups with the file.
We had a good system going back then. Large forest spruce felled onto moss, bark as clean as a whisle , not dragged around picking up dirt and grit and lost time doing it.
What I'm saying is process the lumber right where the tree falls. Only thing you have to move is the slabs and lumber when your done.
Willard.  

[jteneyck]

Thanks for the feedback, Willard.  Guess I'll stick with what I'm doing.  Top physical condition?  No way at 55, but not bad either.  I use Oregon RD 3/8ths pitch chains, sharpened at 10 deg. with the rakers set pretty deep at around 0.040" and they cut very smoothly.  Depending upon what I'm cutting, one chain might cut 100 BF before showing signs of getting dull.  I cut a nice ash log yesterday and the chain still looked fresh when I was done.  On the other hand, on a semi-dry red oak log I just cut I had to use 4 chains to finish it.  That's the one that took 5 hours.  I usually have 2 or 3 sharp chains ready to go, and it's only a 1 minute walk to the sharpener if it's time to resharpen.  I agree that milling sure is addictive.  I'm a furniture maker now that I'm retired, but most days I would rather mill lumber than make furniture.  However, furniture making pays a lot better and is a lot more comfortable to do in the winter.  Luckily, I can do pretty much whatever I choose. 

John 

[HolmenTree]

It sure is addictive John.
 One tip I can give you if your not already doing it , is on the Alaskan mill get rid of the bottom 2 brackets that clamp to the guide bar. Drill 2- 3/8" holes through the bar and the upper brackets into the center of the 2 square tubings. Tap the holes in the upper bracket 7/16" . Now you can bolt your bar to the mill rather then clamping it in place.
Sure makes chain removal alot easier with the bottom brackets off. Just make sure you have short pieces of that bracket tubing under the bolt heads so you don't cut into the ground when you put the mill down.
Willard.             

[SawTroll]

Pretty funny that this ended up like a thread about milling!   

[Al_Smith]

  What would be even more funny is if someone tried to mill with a 338 or 339 Husqvarna . Might work fine on a tooth pick .

[JohnG28]

Might be able to mill some really nice Balsa wood with one of those 338xps.

[HolmenTree]

Pretty funny that this ended up like a thread about milling!    

Yeah its pretty funny alright.
 I just threw some "old glory" in there for Stihl seeing this was turning into a Stihl MS200 bashing thread.
I have run Stihl for 27 consecutive years and Jonsered for 7 before that. I only just switched to Husqvarna exclusively 2 years ago. I am real happy with my 346, 372, 576 and 395XPs.
All I need now is a 338XP and a T435
Willard

[SawTroll]

   I think you should avoid the T435 - it is a rebadged cheap Redmax, not a true Husky.


I guess it was the 3/8" lo-pro chain that brought milling into the discussion....

[HolmenTree]

 I think you should avoid the T435 - it is a rebadged cheap Redmax, not a true Husky.


I guess it was the 3/8" lo-pro chain that brought milling into the discussion....

I may be mistaken but it appears Husqvarna did a major makeover on the Redmax, air injection for example is on the T435 which I don't think the Redmax version had.I might be wrong though.
Yes you're correct that little lo-pro derailed this thread
Which reminds me I have to go to the Husky dealer tomorrow and see if he can get me those .325 and 1/4" rims and drums for the 338/339 that you found the information on.
 I have just been way too busy taking out trees for customers lately. My new 395XP is well broke in now, I replaced the factories "little" 7 pin 3/8 for a 8 pin. Man does that saw rip now!! Almost scary power when your not careful with it.
My MS200 has been acting up lately and it doesn't have alot of hours on it. So I think I'll price out a new 338XPT also tomorrow.
Willard.

[SawTroll]

Yes Willard, Husky bought Redmax (Zenoah)  from Komatso (spelling?) some years ago. rebadging has happened both ways after that, but not a lot of them.

Consider the 2139T as an alternative to the 338xpt. Same saw, and at some places sold at a considerably lower price for some odd reason......

[HolmenTree]

Well Niko I did it. I saw my Husqvarna dealer today and I ordered a new 338XPT. I am retiring my Stihl MS200. Thanks for the advice about the 2139T but we have no reliable Jonsered dealer in our area anymore.
He sold it to me for $600 CDN even, good deal when they are $700 retail here in Canada. The 1/4" clutch drum and sprocket #s you gave me were good except for the .325 rim/drum which were invalid. A little search he found it was a different #. But he said it is normal for Husqvarna not to input their # s properly, they just straighten it out over the phone. I guess they are still in the middle of their restructuring.
So I'm getting the 1/4" and .325 setup for the 338XPT. Excellent versatility  with lightweight 1/4"smooth cutting chain for pruning and .325 chisel chain for doing aerial tree removals. Both on 16" solid body replaceable nosed bars.[Sandvik Windsor Mini-Pro bars].
My dealer couldn't even find a listing for the T435.
So here I am stuck with a shed full of well used Stihl saws. I'm going to have to sell them all off except for the 090AV. The 090 is a classic in its own right. It probably won't cut another stick of wood again, it will just sit beside my homemade Yamaha 125 YZ bike saw.
Willard.

[SawTroll]

  that sounds very good to me, but a 16" bar on a 39cc saw sounds like a lot of bar to me......

Btw, I believe the 090 actually still is made (in Germany), but the markets it is offered on is very limited.

[HolmenTree]

My 16" Sandvik Windsor mini pro bars  is about the weight of a 14" regular bar because of their small nose and slim taper. Now when I say 14" regular I mean the "fullsized 14inch bars" you guys in Scandinavia use  equal to the Oregon Powermatch or Windsor Speed Tip. I cannot find one of those bars here.
 I did cut 2" off the tail of a old 1970s 16" Windsor SpeedTip with a super narrow tail for a little Homelite saw. I ran this 14" on my MS200 last year but I found the big nose was not very good doing precision aerial cuts. I would post a photo of it here but I can't figure out how to post pics here.
I just don't want to go 14" laminated. Anyways the 16" mini pro offers an extra 2" of reach up in the tree and its still a lightweight professional solid body bar. I have spare tips for these bars in 1/4" and .325, so I can interchange whenever needed. My 346XP also uses this bar but in .325 only.
 
Willard.

[SawTroll]

My 16" Sandvik Windsor mini pro bars  is about the weight of a 14" regular bar because of their small nose and slim taper. Now when I say 14" regular I mean the "fullsized 14inch bars" you guys in Scandinavia use  equal to the Oregon Powermatch or Windsor Speed Tip. I cannot find one of those bars here. .... 

I don't think regular RSN bars exist in 3/8" lo pro, at least not for these small saws. I have never seen or heard of one....

[HolmenTree]

My 16" Sandvik Windsor mini pro bars  is about the weight of a 14" regular bar because of their small nose and slim taper. Now when I say 14" regular I mean the "fullsized 14inch bars" you guys in Scandinavia use  equal to the Oregon Powermatch or Windsor Speed Tip. I cannot find one of those bars here. ....  

I don't think regular RSN bars exist in 3/8" lo pro, at least not for these small saws. I have never seen or heard of one....

I forgot to mention........ regular RSN bars in .325
Scandinavian loggers have been running these .325  RSN 14" bars on their Huskies, Jonsereds since the 1970s.
Now that I'm getting a new 338XPT with .325 and 1/4" setup I will never use  3/8" lo pro ever again.
The Windsor SpeedTip 14" RSN bar I made for my MS200 was also way too nose heavy. My 16" Mini Pros are way lighter at the nose, still a very well balanced bar for a little top handle.
You can see photos of my MS200 and Husky 346XP with the 16" mini-pro bars and 1/4" on the other "down under site". Go to their chainsaw forum, page 4, "2009 Husqvarna NE 346XP" thread, post #131.
Willard.

[Al_Smith]

 
 
You can see photos of my MS200 and Husky 346XP with the 16" mini-pro bars and 1/4" on the other "down under site". Go to their chainsaw forum, page 4, "2009 Husqvarna NE 346XP" thread, post #131.
Willard.

Not even on a link would I or many others visit that one practicular site . Perhaps maybe when the sun rises in the west but until then no .To each his or her own though .

[Rocky_J]

An awful lot of work to avoid buying Stihl 63pm 3/8 picco chain. All the other brands I've tried are junk in comparison but the Stihl 63pm chain riding on the Stihl E Light reduced weight bars has been a fantastic combination for me. Good luck trying to find a workable combination on your new Husky top handle.

Oh, and Al thought all 3/8 picco chain was about the same as well until I sent him a couple loops of Stihl 63pm. Now I've got that cheap old codger buying it, and he hates spending money on anything!

[HolmenTree]

 
 
You can see photos of my MS200 and Husky 346XP with the 16" mini-pro bars and 1/4" on the other "down under site". Go to their chainsaw forum, page 4, "2009 Husqvarna NE 346XP" thread, post #131.
Willard.

Not even on a link would I or many others visit that one practicular site . Perhaps maybe when the sun rises in the west but until then no .To each his or her own though .

Well if I could post photos I would , whats this Java uploader? Hey Al I see your name on many other sites too. Heck maybe you use another name "down under".
Willard.

[HolmenTree]

An awful lot of work to avoid buying Stihl 63pm 3/8 picco chain. All the other brands I've tried are junk in comparison but the Stihl 63pm chain riding on the Stihl E Light reduced weight bars has been a fantastic combination for me. Good luck trying to find a workable combination on your new Husky top handle.

Oh, and Al thought all 3/8 picco chain was about the same as well until I sent him a couple loops of Stihl 63pm. Now I've got that cheap old codger buying it, and he hates spending money on anything!

SawTroll already helped me out by giving me information on part#s to convert the 338XPT over to .325 and 1/4"[above posts]. The 338XPT takes the same small spline rim as the 346XP.
I have a few rolls of Stihl 1/4" and .325 chisel chain. A few rolls of Oregon .325 chisel,3/8 chisel full skip, old roll of 50AL[chisel bit .404 in.050] and a roll of Carlton 1/4".
 I can get 3/8 LO PRO tips for my Mini pro bars also but I'm going to run 1/4" instead.
I like to file my chain so small the teeth break off.  But with a laminated bar I would have a pile of bars with spread rails laying on my shop floor at the end of the year in my business. Imagine how fast that little top handle would cut with filed back to the laser marks  .325 chisel chain.
When my solid body mini pro bar gets a little sloppy when the teeth are that small I just shim and hammer the rails and she cuts like a brand new bar again. Put a bend in it, hammer that out too.
Willard.

 

[Al_Smith]

Oh, and Al thought all 3/8 picco chain was about the same as well until I sent him a couple loops of Stihl 63pm. Now I've got that cheap old codger buying it, and he hates spending money on anything!

I have to admit it's very good chain .Made a believer outta me . Shucks for no more than what I use it's really no big deal . One chain on a 200 would last me a long time .

Now Willard  this nose heavy business on a 200T ,just who is BS-ing who now . I've ran them with a light weight 12" with micro .043  ,with a standard 14" and with a 16" .None are what I would consider nose heavy . Now a 48" on a Mac 125 is nose heavy  in case anybody wants to know but that's another subject all together .

[HolmenTree]

 

Now Willard  this nose heavy business on a 200T ,just who is BS-ing who now . I've ran them with a light weight 12" with micro .043  ,with a standard 14" and with a 16" .None are what I would consider nose heavy . Now a 48" on a Mac 125 is nose heavy  in case anybody wants to know but that's another subject all together .

Al you have to back up a few of my posts to understand what I was talking about a nose heavy bar. I shortened a old style Homelite narrow tail 16"Windsor Speed Tip bar with the heavy duty STA nose to 14" and ran it on my MS200 with the picco chain. On a little 7- 1/2 lb saw 50 feet up in a tree it was nose heavy when I was doing precision pruning cuts. The large radius nose was also too clumsy doing those cuts. Now a little laminated 14" mini bar is a different story.
I'm real happy with my new lightweight Windsor Mini- Pro bars at 16".,
Willard.

[Al_Smith]

Well okay but know my question would be why in the world would one adapt an odd bar for a saw where one could be purchased that would do the job better

Now don't get me wrong because I've adapted a lot of bars .For example a large mount 084 sized Stihl to a 2100 Homelite .The simple fact is it's next to impossible to find a sprocket nose bar for that big old saw which is vintage late 60's early 70's  so I had no choice .

[SawTroll]

Well, Cannon sure offer a lot of unusual bar designs, but they are a bit expensive.....

[Kevin]

The only reason I wouldn't buy a 338 is due to the air cleaner being in front.

[SawTroll]

The only reason I wouldn't buy a 338 is due to the air cleaner being in front.

Yes, not a very good design in that regard - but not really a problem. The filter just have to be cleaned a bit more often than on the larger Huskys.

I guess the reason for it is weight distribution.

[Al_Smith]

 
    Hey Al I see your name on many other sites too. Heck maybe you use another name "down under".
Willard.

Well I won't get into it but let's just say I can go any place on the internet I choose to ,just some places I choose not to .

[Al_Smith]

Now to the subject,whatever it is or was .According to a few folks ,they say a 338 is a pretty good saw . I wouldn't know because I've never seen or ran one . The 335 was not so good . I think this has tarnished Husqvarnas image with regards to small arborist type saws .

Like it or not the Stihl 200T has became the standard by which all the others are compaired to just like the 066 was the standard of 100 or so cc saws .Just the way it is .

[SawTroll]

Now to the subject,whatever it is or was .According to a few folks ,they say a 338 is a pretty good saw . I wouldn't know because I've never seen or ran one . The 335 was not so good . I think this has tarnished Husqvarnas image with regards to small arborist type saws .

Like it or not the Stihl 200T has became the standard by which all the others are compaired to just like the 066 was the standard of 100 or so cc saws .Just the way it is .

You are mostly right, but the late 338s are not like the 335s and the early 338s - a lot of people have missed that point, it is not only you.....

[Rocky_J]

There is a reason why the 200T is by far the most popular pro top handle saw, even at $650 a pop. Funny how all the other brands can't seem to find a market for their saws at half the price. 

[Al_Smith]

I did like the balance of the 335's but the rest kind of left me not so impressed .

RB praises the later 338's but as I say I've never seen one . Husqvarna in these parts sealed their fate when they pulled franchises years ago so there are none  except what Lowes and Home Depot sells . No professional is going to buy something they can't get serviced . So they sell to home owners and are perfectly happy to do so ,a buck is a buck .

[HolmenTree]

Well okay but know my question would be why in the world would one adapt an odd bar for a saw where one could be purchased that would do the job better

The trouble is Al sometimes you can't buy a product that is no longer available to do the job right.
Like I said before I always file my chain's cutters as small as possible to get the full use out of them. With only laminated bars available for a top handle saw your stuck with rails that spread quickly and you can't tighten them up back to where they were, with teeth filed down to the laser marks you got a sloppy on- off cutting chain.
 Solid machined bars you can retighten no problem plus hammer a bend out of them too.
I lucked out a while back and found a stockpile of brand new vintage 16" Sandvik Windsor Mini Pro solid body, replaceable nosed bars.
 Now a 16" is the maximum length you'd want to go on a little top handle saw, but the Mini Pros are a narrow lightweight bar about the same weight as a 16" laminated bar like Oregons Pro Lite for example.
The beauty of the Mini Pro bar is the replaceable sprocket noses for that bar come in 1/4", .325", 3/8" LO PRO and 3/8" standard. I bought 3 of each of all 4 sizes. And now that I'm thinking of it I'll order more before their all gone.
My noses were still sealed in their plastic bags and it took a little WD40 to get the 25 year old grease in them loosened up.
Willard.

[HolmenTree]

The only reason I wouldn't buy a 338 is due to the air cleaner being in front.

Yeah I was concerned about that too. Rumor is I heard Husqvarna did improvements on the latest 338 model's air injection. I know 3 years ago or so there was a problem.
I have run 020/ Ms200s for years and their rear mounted airfilters are always dirty, easy enough to tap the dust off with the scrench though .
Well I'll have my new 338XPT in a few days so we'll see how fast its filter gets dirty.
Willard.

[SawTroll]

On my 339xp the air filter gets dirty faster than on my other Huskys, but still not as fast as on my other saws.