No resharp here

[ladylake]

 I just sharpened 6 blades 12' 6" , set 2 blades and sharpened a chainsaw in 40 minutes, that would have cost me around $60. Not bad wages.   Steve

[Chuck White]

I invested in a sharpener and setter last year and from the time I got it (June) until
I quit sawing for the season (Nov), I sharpened 95 blades.
Obviously the same ones in rotation.
I figured it out that when I reach 350 blades, my sharpener and setter will be amortized out,
and will owe me nothing.  I was comparing to resharp.
Now, on the other hand, there are sawyers out there who just plain DON'T have time to
sharpen & set, so resharp is their best option.

[Magicman]

Now, on the other hand, there are sawyers out there who just plain DON'T have time to
sharpen & set, so resharp is their best option.

And then there are sawyers such as I, that HAVE time, but just don't WANT to spend it sharpening blades.  You just gotta enjoy not HAVING to do something sometimes.....even if you ENJOY sharpening......

[Kansas]

We scaled back our work force last year through attrition, as business slowed down.  Now business has picked way up. I hired a retired machinist a few weeks ago to strictly sharpen blades. He spends about 10 or so hours a week. He has picked it up quickly, also doing some chainsaw chains.  Only thing I can't figure out is why it took me so long to do this. We can concentrate on sawing and production. Still able to keep payroll down.

[Bibbyman]

I just sharpened 6 blades 12' 6" , set 2 blades and sharpened a chainsaw in 40 minutes, that would have cost me around $60. Not bad wages.   Steve

Your blades probably equal the performance of new or ReSharp blades but back when I was doing my own using the old model Wood-Mizer drag grinder and single tooth setter, mine didn’t.  ReSharp wasn’t available when we bought our first mill.  But when they sent us a free coupon to try ReSharp, that was it.  I seen the light!

If a blade you’ve sharpened does not substantially equal what you can get from an outside resharp service; then have you save time or money?  Say you’re blade saws 10% slower.  Say it gets dull a couple of hundred feet quicker?  Say you average throwing away one good board to wavy cut?  Have you saved time or money?

I know,  I know, we’ve just sunk big bucks into a new WM CBN grinder and dual-tooth setter.  And the first blades look like they’re going to perform well.  But if I can’t get the quality I was accustom to from the ReSharp blades,  I’ll have to reconsider again.  I’m not going to spend hours grinding and setting blades only to lose time and quality at the mill.

[Kansas]

Don't forget one of the most important aspects of  sharpening your own blades. When you use a resharp service, you tend to push the blade for a longer period of time. If you sharpen your own, as long as you get in the habit, you will pull the blades faster, prolonging the life of the blade. Its hard to get sawyers in the habit of pulling a blade that is cutting good. But if you pull every few hours, they last a lot longer.

[Bibbyman]

I hired a retired machinist a few weeks ago to strictly sharpen blades. He spends about 10 or so hours a week. He has picked it up quickly, also doing some chainsaw chains. 

Maybe you don't want to elaborate but have you calculated the cost of your in-house guy compared to the Re-Sharp service?


JEFF!  You stinker!  You got a gnat running around on my screen!

[red oaks lumber]

a few years back i called a company about their sharpener  and setter. talking with the old guy about things he asked me what buisness i was in, i laughed and said sarcasticly, sawing!what do you think? ok then he said and there is companys that dont saw but, sharpen and set blades.
 the moral to his and my story is do what you do best and let other people do what they do best. i saw wood , i dont or wont sharpen blades.

[ladylake]

Just got done with 2300 bf in 7-1/2  hours using 4 of the blades I sharpened this morning not one wavy board sawing red oak popular and 4 small red cedar. My sharpened blades cut as good or better than new.   Steve

[Tom]

I'm from another "do-what-you-do-best" school.   I found that I was pretty good at sharpening bands.  I also enjoyed, and got paid for, sawing wood.  I realized, soon on, that I would have no idea what the cutting configuration was with my band, and would not be very good at diagnosing problems, if I didn't know how to sharpen my own bands.  While it's not my favorite thing to do, I also found that it was not all that much of an imposition either.   I've enjoyed knowing that I won't run out of bands.  As long as I can find an old one laying around, I'll saw wood.

I've used bands that were sharpened by people who don't saw and have gotten some pretty radical results.  I even knew a fellow that did that, just sharpened.  He was bragging to me how he throws away bands, from pallet companies, that he has already sharpened twice, because he can tell that they have lost their temper.   I asked him if I could have them.    He didn't want to do that, but he sure had thousands stacked in his backyard.

[bandmiller2]

I have always done everything I can to support my existance,I may not be the best but good enough.It was a natural to build my own mill and sharpen the bands as well.The less I have to depend on outhers the better.Resharp is a good , I've used their service, for some its the way to go.I've got a Cooks cats claw that will get the teeth as sharp as any.I don't need a large band inventory and if I want to try 7 degree teeth its a simple ajustment.Frank C.

[sdunston]

Just got the new issue of "SAWMIL and WOODLOT" and there is a good story in there about sharping,setting and rolling.
Sam

[Kansas]

I hired a retired machinist a few weeks ago to strictly sharpen blades. He spends about 10 or so hours a week. He has picked it up quickly, also doing some chainsaw chains. 

Maybe you don't want to elaborate but have you calculated the cost of your in-house guy compared to the Re-Sharp service?

Bibby, figuring quite liberally, lets say 130 dollars a week for all costs associated with hiring him, plus tossing in a grinding wheel. I can't tell you exactly how many blades are sharpened every week. But that is sharpening the bands for 2 mills, plus once in awhile sharpening a few for the resaw. The one blades are 21'2" long and 2 inches wide. The other ones are for the LT70. We go through quite a few blades in a week because we cut a lot of cottonwood and bur oak. Both seem a lot harder on blades than something like red oak or walnut. I don't know if its mineral in the cottonwood, or sand. And bur oak is just flat hard. I would guess each mill gets a blade changed out about 4-6 times a day when we are running hard.  Figuring once in awhile one or both mills are down for repairs, or something else is going on, an absolutely low end figure would be about 30 blades a week. I think 4-5 dollars a blade would easily cover it. I probably ought to track that better. I'm not sure what shipping and sharpening on the resharp service would cost for those kinds of blades.

[Cedarman]

We have a lot bands.   Resharp has a deal if you send in 100 blades , then shipping is free one way.  Also offering 15% discount.  Also have coupon for resharp on 10 blades.  Should make it about $6.00 per blade.   A bunch are 205" multihead blades which takes about 15 minutes to clean, set and sharpen each.  Since I just "love" to sharpen and set  blades   I am going to let WM do the chore.  When we have extra time we do sharpen our own.  I am like Bibbyman, I remember the old hand operated grinding wheel where you could only sharpen the face of the tooth and the little single tooth setter.  I died and went to heaven when I got the dial setter and automatic sharpener.  I can only imagine Bibbymans joy at operating the CBN.

[backwoods sawyer]

I look at sharpening in house as controlling the cost, same as oiling the mill each morning, and doing the maintenance, whether it is hydraulic, electrical or fabrication. I could hire out all of these steps but the profit goes away real quick that way. The larger the operation the more you can hire out. I only have to support one family if I do as much as I can myself.

[Bibbyman]

I'm no expert but I asked Mary (who is) and she agreed that when you send blades out to resharp, it's easy to take that expense off your taxes.   When you do it yourself, you can't deduct that expense.  So, does that mean you're paying taxes on the money you saved by doing it yourself? 

[Cedarman]

If you make a profit, you pay taxes on it as earned income.  Lets say you pay $100 bucks for resharp.  That $100 is spent and you don't pay taxes on it.  Lets say your tax rate is 25% on the last dollars you make.  So, after taxes you have $75 bucks in your pocket.  If you pay the $100 to resharp, it actually only took $75 out of your pocket and $25 out of uncle sam's pocket.  If resharp costs $8.00 per blade, it actually only takes $6.00 out of your pocket.   By sharpening your own blades you are only saving $6.00 per blade not $8.00
Sending in 100 blades , getting 10 done for free and their 15% discount, my out of pocket cost per blade is less than $4.50  this go round.

[ladylake]

I'll be the last one to spend money to save money on taxes.   Steve

[Magicman]

The more money you make or save....the better off you are financially.....period.

Not making money to keep from paying taxes is wrong thinking.

When I pay ReSharp to sharpen blades, it buys me time.....not saves me money.   At this stage in my life.....time is more valuable than money.

[T Red]

 At this stage in my life.....time is more valuable than money.

It's taken me a long time to learn that lesson.  For some reason I think I have to do everything pertaining to a project I'm working on.  When in reality hiring someone to do the things I'm not proficient at would be the wise thing to do.

Tim

[bandmiller2]

Guys were just beating our gums on this subject there are valid reasons on boath sides.I chose to sharpen my own because I'am an independent cuss and my time is not that valuable, watch my cats claw sharpener or the history channel.If your paying someone to sharpen your bands by all means send em out.I chose to invest in equip. insted of a large inventory of bands.Theirs no right or wrong answer here.Frank C.

[Bibbyman]

For sure..  And I’ve been there, done that, then done the other and now back to been there, done that ... again.

I think this is a good topic for discussion.  It’s brought out a number of good points. There are likely readers out there that have gained something from this discussion – even if the posters are somewhat polarized.

There is even a third option..  Disposable blades.  Yea.. saw with them until they get dull and then throw them into the recycle bin.   Wood-Mizer makes a line of use once blades called the SilverTip.

http://www.woodmizerblades.com/bladeTypes/silverTip/silverTip.aspx

Although I know of some people that use them and reshapen them, I think they’re intended for disposal after the first use. 

We used at least a box of 1-1/2" wide SilverTips (I think they were .050 thick but I don’t see that thickness listed so I’ll have to check.) and they worked well.  The price is a good bit less than the DoubleHards but they tend to not stay sharp as long.

[ladylake]

 Frank     I'm with you on the tool thing the more the better, if one never tries to do things you never get good at doing much and the more you do the easier it is to pick up on something new. If I couldn't sharpen blades as good as new I'd keep trying untill I could, with that said running my Wright sharpener from TK is easy and to me a Cooks looks about the same, no rocket science involved. I don't think people should assume we cut wavy lumber or can't sharpen a blade right.   Steve

[Cedarman]

The answer to self sharpen or send out is determined by the question.  What is the most important thing I need to be doing during the next hour?  Businesswise  there is a long list of things that can be done during the day.  If you are in business, you should be doing that which makes the most money and should be considered from a short term and a long term view.  If you have an hour where you can watch TV or sharpen blades because all else is done, then decide which is more important.  Which is more important, sharpen blades or watch grandkids soccer game?  If you need to make a certain amount of money to pay bills, then figure which generates best bottom line.  Sharpen blades or let WM sharpen blades because you can generate a lot more money doing something else.  As has been stated, there is no right answer that fits everyone.  Depends on individual situations.

The tax thing is to help determine the true out pocket cost of sending blades out to resharp.  It is not $8.00 for me, but only $4.50.  That is the number I use to determine the economics of the situation.  If you have employees, your job is to determine best use of employee time.  What generates most money to the bottom line?  The answer can change on a daily basis.

[John Bartley]

 At this stage in my life.....time is more valuable than money.

It's taken me a long time to learn that lesson.  For some reason I think I have to do everything pertaining to a project I'm working on.  When in reality hiring someone to do the things I'm not proficient at would be the wise thing to do.

Tim

I think that this is one of the two hardest lessons for a new entrepreneur to learn. We are entrepreneurs because we are independent and self-sufficient, and we're not accustomed to surrendering responsibility for tasks. Delegation doesn't fit with our personality. However.....once we learn that suppliers, sub-trades, contract labour and services are all an equal part of the way we create a profit, then our business life gets much easier. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't learn how to do the things we sub out, it just means that we should learn to recognise when subbing out is more cost effective than not subbing it out. The other hard lesson to learn is how to value ourselves. Giving away profit is the second curse of the budding entrepreneur.

just my $0.02

cheers

John

[ladylake]

Not much gets subbed out here, most times I can have it fixed in the same time it would take to hual it to town to get it fixed at $60 to $90 a hour  and if I do it it's done right.   Steve

[woodmills1]

I don't mind sharpening. I always have blades to do jobs. when I cut old beams I charge the customer for 4 blades and sharpen them after they hit trash, charging the customer for the time. I am over 600,000 bd ft cut so have saved a considerable amount of money by sharpening my own

I also do all my own maintainance though actual repair in this electronic world has become harder for me to keep up with

I would like to hire a worker, but just can't seem to take that step.  Kathy has been working with me and as she gets better on the mill and the loader I can see us increasing production.  the two of us can really put out the wood on the edger, and we can put 2 cord of stacked firewood out in under 4 hrs, with me still loading the wood on the processor with the metavic until she gets better with the grapple as it is easy to have an oops loading the live deck at

we only get so many wood or firewood orders and so many cut for other jobs so taking care of as much as we can on our own is important

the blue ox really changed how we work.......we have lots of wood now and since the upgrades and the firewood processor, I think we have the right mix to deal with it, just the two of us

[T Red]

Not much gets subbed out here, most times I can have it fixed in the same time it would take to hual it to town to get it fixed at $60 to $90 a hour  and if I do it it's done right.   Steve

I can agree with that statement also.  Many times I can repair a part much cheaper than buying a replacement.  Not to mention I like doing it, most of the time.

[Cedarman]

One of the biggest reason I hire work done is that I have 70 hours worth of work to do each day and I only want to put in 14. 

[red oaks lumber]

i love being the odd man all the time. i never said you guys shouldn'y grind and set your own blades. for me, i'm worth more money than that. when i work at my buisness im worth about $100/ hour. so for me to take the time to grind my own bands costs me more than sending them out. and if i had time it would be spent on the phone making sales calls.

[ladylake]

If I was that busy and went through a lot of bands I'd do like Kansas , hire a old guy part time to sharpen.    Steve

[Larry]

hire a old guy part time to sharpen.

Finally an idea I'm comfortable with.  Since I see your 57 I suppose an old guy would be in his 80's.   Can I put in my application?  The clock is a tickin.

[backwoods sawyer]

I knew an “Old guy” that did the sharpening for another mill. He would go in once a week and sharpen all there saws and come home with a nice assortment of wood that he would use in his wood shop where he spent the rest of his week. A win – win situation.
“Old” Dose not have to mean you’re in your 80’s just older then the other guy.

[sdunston]

WOW never thought there were as many pro's and con's on sharping your own blades . I chose to get a sharpener just to keep an expense in house, Yes I wrote off the sharpner an took the 7 year depriciaon, But thats not the reason I wanted to sharpen blades I like doing it and just looking into the furture if shipping cost keep going up and the cost of doing business keeps going up for the resharp guys they will have to raise the price per blade. So if this happens I will be even further ahead.Just my 10cents worth(used to say 2cents but  prices are on the rise )
Sam

[woodmills1]

old guy?

[Bibbyman]

WOW never thought there were as many pro's and con's on sharping your own blades . 

And that's what's good about this topic.  Everyone has the right answer but there is not one answer for everyone.

I guess that’s why every major mill manufacture also sales sharpeners and setters and many also offer sharpening services.  Plus there are a number of places to get your blades sharpened besides the mill manufactures. 

Choices are good to have.  Sometimes choices are hard to make.

[ladylake]

hire a old guy part time to sharpen.

Finally an idea I'm comfortable with.  Since I see your 57 I suppose an old guy would be in his 80's.   Can I put in my application?  The clock is a tickin.

 In about a week or two I'll be plenty old to qualify, 6 months max.   Steve

[just_sawing]

Here in Middle TN there is a nice option. Sawyertools which handles WM blades also has a nice sharpening system. The best thing is that they have set up a route for sharpening blades. My blades are picked up on thursday last week dropped off and I I need Double Hadr thay provide. This is costing no shipping and I can vary to pitch as I need. The best thing is this keeps only two weeks of blades in the mix so I don't have 75 in the mail and have better control. As I replace the blades I put the new ones the new ones go back and the old one come forward. Every one here I believe knows the feeling that you have when you need to replace 50 blades.

[coastlogger]

I may be the only one who does this Im not sure:I saw alone, and I use ONE blade.When its dull I sharpen it. Ive tried two blades but find the delay sharpening two just wrecks my rhythm where one blade which I can touch up in about 5 minutes is just right. Setting of course takes longer I do this around every third time and set LOTS ie 30 so I wont have to do it again for awhile.I find that by using one blade I can customize a bit for what I know Im into next few logs ie extra big cuts get an extra pass sometimes, a dirty old thing maybe gets a quick go around and then another once I get the slabs off. etc.Best thing is you never have to fiddle with grinder settings, its set right where you left off sharpening that same blade.Saves more time than youd think.Re the single tooth setter Im not in love with it but if you set yourself up right you can do pretty well a tooth per 2 seconds,maybe even a bit faster. Ive made little "hand stops' so when i reach for the next spot on the blade to push , i can feel where my hand should be. Can do this while Im setting with other hand. 183  tooth blade both sides including flipping = +/-10 mins.

[woodmills1]

one blade, interesting.  It would take me longer to walk from the mill to the sharpener and back than it would to sharpen......

[Chuck White]

I wouldn't dare go to the mill with just one blade, I know it would break or hit iron on the first log!   

When I head out, I go with 6 blades, but usually only use 3 during the course of a days sawing.

[ladylake]

I wouldn't dare go to the mill with just one blade, I know it would break or hit iron on the first log!   

When I head out, I go with 6 blades, but usually only use 3 during the course of a days sawing.

  That's for sure, with no spare blade something will happen in about 2 minutes.   Steve

[bandmiller2]

When I worked the LT-70 we used about 6 bands in rotation when their were three dulls hanging on the nail I'd take em home and sharpen.We always had a box of news around in case we needed them.I'd check the set with a gauge usally reset every outher time one trip around the cats claw.If tramp was hit reset and twice around the block.Probibly five sharpenings per band then hairline cracks start to showup.Frank C.

[Bibbyman]

Question; 

Can you hear a crack in a blade?  I know I can hear one as it develops while I'm sawing.  Got a "tick, tick, tick" sound. (Note, we're running an electric mill and it doesn’t make nearly as much noise as an engine.)

But I swear I can hear a crack when I open a blade and again if I kind of toss it down on logs or something.  It'll have a dull ring to it.

Once down in Mt. Vernon at the WM ReSharp facility I watched Joe Alexander open blades.  He could tell every blade grind profile at a glance and could distinguish blades with cracks in them by the sound they made when opening them.

[coastlogger]

Re: using one blade: I have several extras in reserve(guess what theyre brand new usually)I seldom need to use one,and yes my sharpener is spitting distance from the mill,and the mill does not go off the property.Like I said I may be the only one doing this but it does work for me.

[Bibbyman]

I think ElectricAl uses two in rotation and has his shaprener right behind the mill.  Maybe if he reads this he can correct me if I'm wrong.

[ladylake]

Sure can hear the tick tick of a cracked blade and I still jump when it breaks.   Steve

[Cedarman]

When you hear that tick tick, reminds me of the book, Three Feet to the End of the Log by Willie Makeit,  illustrated by Bangy Didnt, reviewed by Stucker Tight.

[Larry]

I run three in rotation.  Makes it a lot easier to set and sharpen as they are all the same width.

For backup I have a box of new bands...when I'm down to 5 new ones I'll get more.

[Magicman]

Sure can hear the tick tick of a cracked blade and I still jump when it breaks.   Steve 

I had a weld to break Friday.  They don't usually tick......and yes I jumped......

[bandmiller2]

Bibby,I to hear the tick tick but you have to act quick or one big bang.Frank C.

[Chuck White]

Usually when I hear the tick, tick, tick, etc. I just start thinking "I'll bet it'll break about a foot from the end".
I will usually see the blade flutter a little while before I start hearing it tick.

[Magicman]

Sometimes it's amazing just how long they will go before they pop.  About the time I finally decide that it's my imagination.....they give way....   By then, they are usually marking the boards too.

[customdave]

This decision was made for me whether I like it or not, No woodmizer resharp up here , & no one in my area that sharpens! So its strickly a do it yourselfer area , but I ain't complaining.... yet.



                                                                 Dave