Steep ground harvest of large cherry, poplar, beech

[Jasperfield]

I own both of these sites and others similar.

These instant sites are in WNC at 4200', North facing slopes of 23%-90% with deep, dark topsoil and very limited access to trails/roads. Last logging was about 1930 on site "M", and about 1960 on site "H".

The logging area within Site "M" is 60+ acres containing cherry, yellow poplar, and beech of average dbh's +/- 20", 24", & 22" respectively. This site also has some red & hard maple.

The logging area within Site "H" is 36 acres and consists primarily of yellow poplar which has average dbh's of 19". Access onto and within it is somewhat limited.

I am interested in harvesting in a manner that will yield the the best return in dollars while concurrently leaving a healthy forest.

My Question is this:What type and weight equipment will be necessary to most cost-effectively harvest the timber? I am interested in this question because it will help determine the firms I contact for consideration. My time horizon for harvest is soon, but not necessarily "right now".

I've been thinking that the primary felling equipment would consist of a tracked tilting-cab swing-machine with a feller-buncher that has sufficient weight to cut the trees and then place them on the ground for export to a landing.

I will retain a Professional Forester and consider his advice.

Thank you for your replies.

[DirtForester]

I will retain a Professional Forester and consider his advice.

Thank you for your replies.

Let your forester deal with these questions.  That is what they are there for and do best.  Ask for a competative bid from the loggers.

[Ron Scott]

Ditto! Retain a profesional forester for the on site advice.

[stonebroke]

In the northeast, this would be a chainsawjob. Then a dozer to prebunch and a cable skidder to get them to the landing. The loggers around here do it all the time. We have some nasty hills.

Stonebroke

[DirtForester]

In the northeast, this would be a chainsawjob. Then a dozer to prebunch and a cable skidder to get them to the landing. The loggers around here do it all the time. We have some nasty hills.

Stonebroke

Correct, and if the timber is that valuable, it would be worth it to hire a dozer or excavator to scarf out some side hill skid trails.

[stonebroke]

In the northeast, this would be a chainsawjob. Then a dozer to prebunch and a cable skidder to get them to the landing. The loggers around here do it all the time. We have some nasty hills.

Stonebroke

Correct, and if the timber is that valuable, it would be worth it to hire a dozer or excavator to scarf out some side hill skid trails.

I am glad somebody agrees with me at least some of the time.

Stonebroke

[ford62783]

im with stonebroke there we do it all the time here i dnt use a dozer to bunch them u just get what ur cabe reaches and less chance of a felerbuncher rolling over but in my opinion it would be the most profitable that way to may take longer but over time it would be more in ur pocket cause the bigger the company the more over head and the more they need to suffice there payments

[acl2]

If a guy bids on the timber he is going be confident that he can get the timber out with the resources he has. Just let the rest up to forester. 

[timberjackrob]

i live in south central ky and we log some pretty steep ground. ihave also visited western nc many times,what we have here is kansas praire compared to what you have. almost all felling is done with chainsaws here.i dont think any kind of felling machine has any bussiness there.chainsaws and cable skidders or dozer with winchwould probably be the best but i have never run a felling machine how steep of a slope can they operate on safely

[timber tramp]

   90%?, thats vertical! Do you guys have yarders over on the left coast?    TT

[timberjackrob]

i have never seen a yarder operation in ky or any where for that matter. hes not kidding about 90%slopes in western nc. i have had to hook cable to trees before i cut them to keep them from falling off bluffs or to the bottom of a 400ft holler several times here in sc ky yes we have hollers in ky not hollows

[Bobus2003]

i live in south central ky and we log some pretty steep ground. ihave also visited western nc many times,what we have here is kansas praire compared to what you have. almost all felling is done with chainsaws here.i dont think any kind of felling machine has any bussiness there.chainsaws and cable skidders or dozer with winchwould probably be the best but i have never run a felling machine how steep of a slope can they operate on safely

I was asking a Feller Operator this question a few weeks back.. He told me his Timbco 425 EX will go places that will make you very uncomfortable, If you can even get the Skidder there. He was cuttin on a slope, that as the skidder was backin up too the bunches, if the blade wasn't to the ground the rear was lifting off the ground

[BaldBob]

   90%?, thats vertical! Do you guys have yarders over on the left coast?    TT

No it is not anywhere near vertical - though it may feel like it when you are climbing it.  A 100% slope is 45deg. (vertical is 90deg.), so a 90% slope is 40.5deg.  e.g. this symbol / would be about a 115%slope.

[stonebroke]

So you can actually walk up 90% slopes? some slopes around here you have a hard time climbing up and down.

Stonebroke

[Horselog]

I'm sure there are many mechanized systems that would be quite capable of harvesting the sites you describe, but I would suggest considering low-impact horse logging as an alternative.  I admit I am biased because I am a horse logger, but I think it would be worth your while to look into.  As mentioned, operators with expensive equipment can be motivated to work faster and potentially leave other considerations, such as site impact, as secondary.  Horses are very maneuverable, and when used in conjunction with the modern open face, hinge, and latch felling technique can be the ultimate in low impact, addressing your concerns for forest health while harvesting the timber economically.  Check out my website, www.sinkingcreekhorselogging.com, as well as www.healingharvestforestdfoundation.org for more information.  If you have any more questions let me know.

[acl2]

How steep of a slope can your horses work on?

[Jasperfield]

Years ago it was logged with horses. They make a characteristic wide channel in the ground and those are present today.

I'll use someone who customarily uses the swing-type tracked harvesters like Timbco. If we have to build some road it'll be minimal.

[Horselog]

What do you mean a "characteristic wide channel"? 

Horses can easily handle at least 45 degree (100%) slopes, and in some situations can handle steeper.

[240b]

 Any kind of FB w/ tilt will be able to cut where a wheel skidder can't go.

[Horselog]

If you have a forester involved, he should know that cherry isn't doing that well right now.  From what I know of the market now is not the time to cut cherry, better to wait for it to go back up.  It could make a big difference.

Also, be careful to consider that if a forester is paid as a percentage of the sale then he could be motivated to cut more than would be good for forest health.  This doesn't necessarily have to be the case, but it is a major temptation.  Not every forester works on percentage, and the ones who work by the hour you know would not have a conflict of interest.

I'm still not sure what you mean by "wide channels", but the kind of horse logging I was recommending to you is a style where there certainly wouldn't be any "channels" created.  Just the fact that horses are used does not guarantee a quality harvest, which is why I specified "low-impact" horse logging in my previous post.  I would guess that any previous harvest with horses could have been one where minimum impact was not a consideration.  And sometimes they made chutes for the logs to slide down the mountain, certainly not something that we do. 

You were asking what equipment would be most cost-effective, but you seem to have made up your mind already.  Obviously you can do what you want, but I'm wondering why you care which method is used as long as it is done in the proper way?