truck to haul own logs to mill??

[redneck]

I am looking to buy a truck to haul my own logs and studwood to mill.  the mills are all within a reasonable distance.  sawlogs 40 km, studwood 35 km and low grade pellet 9 km.
I am looking at a 1 ton truck and loading with a farm tractor. The truck could also be used in the winter for plowing and sanding.  or  I know of a fellow with a small 5 ton tandem international with a patu log loader on it.  however this truck is of little use out side of the woodlot, and i am sure the insurance and registration is considerably more.   I have also seen some log trailers with loaders powered with honda engines and towned with one ton trucks. 
what should i invest in for small scale logging? 
what works for you or what did not work ?

[Jamie_C]

With what you are allowed to legally carry for weight on a 1 ton truck here in the trusty old maritimes you will chew up all of your profit in fuel for the truck. Here in NS you can only legally scale about 1.5 cds on a 1 ton if you have the proper tires. If you could find a larger single axle truck it might work a bit better, even an F450 will get you up in the approx 2 to 2.5 cd ballpark.

The way the laws for hauling wood and the associated fines are now it would be far cheaper to get a bigger truck and have it parked for part of the year. Last thing you need is a $500 overweight fine when you are only carrying $250 worth of wood on the truck.

[Rick Alger]

I thought about doing something along those lines, but decided not to. The reason is mostly time. If I am running the truck I am not producing wood. The nearest mill shuts down at 4:00, so I'd have to lose the better part of an afternoon every time I hauled. A mid-mount tractor trailer can haul cheaper than I can with a six wheeler  if I figure in lost production.

I do use a small tandem trailer behind the pickup to clean up my yards and haul firewood, and I do load it with a farm tractor.

[stonebroke]

You might want to get a gooseneck. That would increase your payload while still enabling you to have a small truck.

Stonebroke

[ahlkey]

A one ton truck to haul logs has big limitations over the long term even if you use a Gooseneck trailer.  As mentioned it not really worth it when you consider your time and cost of fuel.

What I did is upgrade to an older single axle F650 Flatbed diesel rated at 26,000 and pull with a solid pintle tri-axle trailer rated at 20K.  Total GCWR is 40,000 lbs which allows me to take to the mill over 5 cords of green pulpwood.  Everything is held under the farm business which gives me an exemption for CDL and insurance is cheap. Mileage with diesel is as good as my F250 V-10 and same trailer and truck can be used for other farm activities as needed.

[bill m]

Do you log full time or is this a side line? If full time you should have a full size ( minimum tandem axle ) log truck. I have a single axle log truck I used for hauling logs from my tree jobs but do not do that type of work anymore so the truck has been parked for almost two years now. I can not carry enough wood to be cost effective so someone does my trucking. A mill is only 8 miles from my house and a log yard/buyer is only 14 miles away.

[Stephen Alford]

Hey redneck ,  your situation sounds somewhat familiar. Always had problems getting someone to haul for me because of the the small scale concept. Simply could not function without moving product when and where it needed to be. I went with the tandum and a noka long boom. Had to learn to drive it but thats a different topic. Just a couple thoughts, the insurance here is expensive first year then decreases every after as long as you don't get a new truck. What ever kind of truck you get it will have to be road worthy.  Here they look at trucks upclose and personal.  To get it inspected was 540.00 just to tell you everything is ok. Your brakes and hub measurements are recorded etc.  What makes it work for me is with a bit of net working , providing you have an urban market handy , costs can be reduced quickly with odd jobs.  City tree removals ,loading tires or mulch , loading a bit of scrap, by the hour stuff which is not really hard on the truck or fuel. Just be dependable. For something to attain value it has to be a bit scarce.  Tacked on a big tool box, vise and light which has been really handy.  Rollin down the road windows down radio blastin ,air horn at the ready, ya can hardly hear the grindin when I shift. 

[Jamie_C]

redneck another consideration is the trucking rate most mills pay .... here in NS it is $0.065 x km + $6.00 so your 40km run with studs will pay you about $8.60/tonne and if you are only carrying about 4 tonnes you will be going in the hole faster than you ever thought possible. You can count on fuel mileage in the 8-10 mpg (about 30 litres/100km)range if you are lucky. So with your 4 tonne payload you probably won't even cover your fuel costs to deliver the wood never mind all the normal costs of running the money pits.

[Ironwood]

Watching the topic, looks good.

 Ironwood

[redneck]

That vise and toolbox is a great idea.  It looks like the 1 ton truck would not be viable.  The old 5 ton tandem international looks alittle better now however it only hold a bout 4 cord.  also i was told i has only one drive axle the other is just a lift axle.  May not be the best for our hilly woodlot.   

[Jamie_C]

It might be easier to call Irving ( i assume thats where your wood goes) and ask them for the phone number of any local guys that still run tandems. I know they are getting to be hard to find around here but if anybody knows of one a good JDI person will.

[Stephen Alford]

   Hey redneck, Jamie C is correct you have to do the math for your situation. Our large sawmill is closed so most wood has to be hauled off island. My hat is off to those who can make a living hauling wood, but it brings with it a new set of variables. I take the Pete to the site and haul out tree length or 8' and load it. Then process the wood evenings and weekends. The landing is about 20'by 40' ( will have post pic  of that later).  The truck only makes a trip a day, most of the time it is sorting and loading at the landing.  Never had much luck with tags offroad. I carry truck chains but full lock rearends would be nice. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Stephen Alford]

   The best look for any truckload of wood is from behind. "tail lights"

[timberfaller390]

I don't know what the laws are for Canada but here I use a single axle 2 ton truck. No air brakes and it is under CDL weight. You can pick up old trucks like this for a song and they work fine. I would go with something bigger than a one ton cause you just ain't gonna be able to haul enough per trip to be profitable. 

This is what I haul with. Anything less is just pithing in the wind unless you are pulling a trailer but then you have extra insurance, tags and etc. Another thing to think about is here a one ton truck with equipment trailer requires a CDL.

[Jamie_C]

Timberfaller, trucks of that vintage are almost impossible to find up here and if you do chances are they would never pass the multiple inspections necessary to stay on the road.

Up here insurance prices are not based on current market value but of replacing the truck with a brand new model. Government inspections will be pricey for a truck that size as it will be rated as commercial then you have to pass the inspections the sawmills / pulpmills have for their ISO standards to even be able to deliver wood to their yard. Toss in the fact that most mills up here now will actually refuse to buy less than a full tandem load (6-8cds) of wood at a time and you really have your back against the wall. You guys down in the US of A have things a lot easier than we do up here.

[bill m]

I am looking to buy a truck to haul my own logs and studwood to mill.  the mills are all within a reasonable distance.  sawlogs 40 km, studwood 35 km and low grade pellet 9 km.
I am looking at a 1 ton truck and loading with a farm tractor. The truck could also be used in the winter for plowing and sanding. 

Here in Ma. all trucks with plows must have commercial registration and insurance. They do not enforce all the time on pickup trucks but 1 tons and bigger they do. On commercial insurance policies you pay for everything including anything you tow.

[ahlkey]

In Wisconsin if you are a farm business (logging/tree plantation is considered farming) you are then exempt from the CDL requirements as long as the produce is your own and you are carrying it to the mill.  You are limited by a 150 mile direction from the farm and you can still be fined if you exceed the total capacity of your equipment.  When the truck is not being used I take the liability off and just pay the small storage fee.  Overall insurance costs are very low for a farm truck.  This truck which is a 2000 F650 flatbed with rear end air suspension (CAT engine) costs me only $250 for around 8 months of use.

[Frickman]

I've owned and run small 21000 to 26000 GVW trucks for years. I log and saw more or less full time and they more than pay for themselves. A decent GMC 7000 or Ford F-700 flatbed will run you between $3000 and $7000 in my area. Plates are around $400 / year and commercial truck insurance between $600 and $700 / year. Throw in two safety inspections and my annual overhead is around $1100 / year. I might be able to hire a triaxle log truck four times for that amount. As was mentioned above, if you have a truck you'll pick up other work around town that will help pay for it. I'm buying a small single axle truck with a mounted knuckleboom loader in a few days and I already have some extra jobs lined up for it around my neighborhood. If I sell 1.5 loads of firewood logs delivered to someone's house every week I will pay for the truck, plate, and insurance after only one year. That's assuming I ignore the cost of the firewood logs, but they get drug out with the rest of the tree anyway, so I kind of ignore their cost. If you only haul a couple loads of logs per year a little one ton truck that you use for other things will get you by. If you're hauling regularly as part of your business you have to get something a little bigger.

[Gary_C]

In Wisconsin if you are a farm business (logging/tree plantation is considered farming) you are then exempt from the CDL requirements as long as the produce is your own and you are carrying it to the mill.  You are limited by a 150 mile direction from the farm and you can still be fined if you exceed the total capacity of your equipment.  

I found out the hard way that may not be true in all places in Wisconsin. The WI State Patrol claimed that trees and logs are not agricultural products. 

[stonebroke]

I have found in NYS anyway that state troopers tend to be full of it. They think they know everything and want to enforce laws as they imagine it might be not as it really is. In other words, they make stuff up, It is sheer incomptence and laziness. They have for the most part regressed into revenue collectors. When the state is in fiscal trouble they tend to become real active in writing tickets.

Stonebroke

[thecfarm]

I just find it easier to make a phone call and have someone else deal with the trucking headaches.I have not been at selling logs for 3-4 yeras now.I had a real nice trucker.He would show always show up in a couple days.My theory was if I was trucking than I was not cutting.I felt it would cost me more to truck it myself than to have someone else do it,BUT I was only cutting a load or two a month too.My full time job gets in the way of more.Seems like some places don't want to deal with the little guy anymore.

[ahlkey]

I agree the State Patrol may not always be informed on the up-to-date regulations.   I specifically talked to and received an email that I keep in my truck from the State Patrol central office confirming that logging of your own trees and transporting those logs to the mill within 150 miles of the farm is exempt from CDL requirements.  It probably helps though that I have farm plates on both my truck and trailer.   Part of the confusion might be that since July of 2007 Silviculture; including the growing & harvesting of trees was added to the farming sales tax exemption identical to other farm activities and not everyone is up to date on the regulations.   My equipment setup for hauling logs more than paid for itself after one full season plus I can use same equipment for other farming activities as well

[stonebroke]

I agree the State Patrol may not always be informed on the up-to-date regulations.   I specifically talked to and received an email that I keep in my truck from the State Patrol central office confirming that logging of your own trees and transporting those logs to the mill within 150 miles of the farm is exempt from CDL requirements.  It probably helps though that I have farm plates on both my truck and trailer.   Part of the confusion might be that since July of 2007 Silviculture; including the growing & harvesting of trees was added to the farming sales tax exemption identical to other farm activities and not everyone is up to date on the regulations.   My equipment setup for hauling logs more than paid for itself after one full season plus I can use same equipment for other farming activities as well

Isn't it their job to be up to date on regulations?

Stonebroke

[Gary_C]

Isn't it their job to be up to date on regulations?

Stonebroke

It apparently is their job to come up with excuses to justify their revenue collection activities and they have no qualms about making false claims to the courts if it suits their needs.

[bill m]

I agree the State Patrol may not always be informed on the up-to-date regulations.   I specifically talked to and received an email that I keep in my truck from the State Patrol central office confirming that logging of your own trees and transporting those logs to the mill within 150 miles of the farm is exempt from CDL requirements.  It probably helps though that I have farm plates on both my truck and trailer.   Part of the confusion might be that since July of 2007 Silviculture; including the growing & harvesting of trees was added to the farming sales tax exemption identical to other farm activities and not everyone is up to date on the regulations.   My equipment setup for hauling logs more than paid for itself after one full season plus I can use same equipment for other farming activities as well

This may work for you because you are logging your own trees but for the loggers that log on someone else's property it won't work. When I was doing tree work having my single axle truck was very convenient but going to the mill it would take me 3 trips with my truck to equal 1 tri axle load.

[ahlkey]

Bill, you are right that if you haul for anyone else (even your neighbor) you need a CDL.  Likewise, if I used only my truck it would not make sense.  However, I have only a very short distance to the mill which helps and I always use my custom tri-axle trailer rated at 20K when I haul to the mill.  Overall my total GCWR with truck & trailer is 40,000.  So in the end, I can handle 5 full cords of pulpwood which is enough to make it worthwhile for me.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

With carting your own logs nothing under 8to9 ton payload will be realy efective even at a 20 mile radius i peak my truck out on a 60 mile radus for pine logs  but it has done deliverys upto 600 miles from home i can leagly carry 19800lbs payload on my single drive Inter  

the Ab 180s series like Timberfallers are good for about 6 ton or around 14000lbs here and theres usually no dramas with rego and insurance for Older trucks aslong as they are tidy and in roadworthy condition   The Acco costs me $1200 a year in rego including Tac which is road/3rd party injury insurance. and insurance on the truck is about $300 a year  

When i go to a semi  a bogie drive Kenworth pulling a 40" triaxle with a 28 ton or 61700lbs  payload the rego jumps to about $5900 pa and insurance on the truck will be around $1200 a year and il be shifting a hell of alot more timber and jobs that are too far away atm will be economical to do as you can basicly cut a load and bring it home with you the same day   With small trucks they have their place where its  not to far to haul logs an you dont mind driving a good part of the evening to clear out the landing every night  ive done that plenty of times over the years 2 to 3 loads a night with about  160 mile round trip each

Regards Chris