best felling techniques

[treefarmer87]

i have a row of huge poplar in between a garage and power line. there are about 20 18" - 32" good veneer poplar sawlogs. i want to bring them down in between the garage and power line not on them, i have been told to pull them down with my skidder. the guy told me to hook to the tree horizontal crank the winch so the skidder comes up sideways on two wheels, and the weight of the skidder will bring the tree on over-sounds unsafe and scary to me    there is about 40-50 yards in between,  i know im gonna wedge the trees and i can cut and fell pretty good for someone my age but i want this to be perfect- i dont have any room for error. im no expert i will greatly appreicate any input, tips, or helpful hints.

[DonT]

I would be careful.If you pre-tension the tree,you could create a barber pole when you start your back cut, I always use a heavy duty cargo strap,about two feet above the backcut when pulling trees.Masdamm rope puller works well,or there are a number of differant ways to achieve MA(mechanical advantage)using ropes and pulleys.

[RSteiner]

That sounds dangerous to me. 

I have a rope puller that works very good in situations like yours, it works better if there are two of you one to work the puller while the other does the cutting.  The danger when putting tension on a tree is putting too much too soon and ending up with a barber chair or worse the tree twisting and falling in the wrong direction.

I would make my notch in the intended direction of fall, bore cut to establish my hindge and after that work one quadrant of the back cut and put a plastic wedge inplace.  Then I would work the other quadrant of the back cut leaving a strap in the back to hold the tree.  At this point I would put tension on the tree, rope puller, winch, or what have you.  Then I would release the tree by cutting the hold back piece.

A couple of weeks ago I had to remove a couple of ash trees, one 22" dbh and the other18" dbh, that were within 6 feet of my house and were leaning over the house where the sunlight was.  I attached the rope puller to the largest one up about 20 feet and persuaded that one in the right direction.  The other smaller one had more lean over the house so I decided to pull that one with the tractor and Farmi winch.  I put the choker and cable up about 20 feet and took the slack out of the cable then did all my cutting and left the tree sitting on a couple of plastic wedges.  Going back to the tractor I started putting more tension on the tree with the winch. 

The tree came over but made a slight twist on the way down which caused it to tickle the branches of a maple tree I was trying to miss, better that than the well casing on the other side.  What happened was I left a little too much hinge wood and the tree split about 5 feet up as it was pulled over.  I missed the intended landing spot by about 4 feet which fortunately for me was no big deal.

I think the most common mistake when pulling a tree over is leaving too much hindge which can result in the tree landing where you didn't intended it to.   When there are buildings and power lines involved things get a little more serious.

Randy

[mad murdock]

I took some fairly large doug fir down on my place a couple years ago, if you have a good anchor point within say 45 deg. of the direction you want to fall, you can use good sized rope and a come-a-long to persuade the tree in the direction you want to go.  I used the winch on the skidder, and put some tension towards the desired direction of fall, then made my notch, and back cut easy and watched carefully  as i went along, adding tension as required until the tree was for sure going to go where I wanted it to go.  I also used wedges to ensure it would not back up on my saw and bind up at a critical time.
These trees were 140'ers or so and 36+ in Dia.  a bit scary when you think about it, if yo utake it slow, think things through, and have a backup plan, you should do OK.  Don't try it alone, though, I had a second set of hands, and eyes to help me, I would have never tried it solo, that is when you get yourself in trouble.  As said by others, don't over tension, you will end up with a barber chair, and will lose control of the process completely.

[Ianab]

Pretensioning sounds pretty dangerous, if you manage to barberchair it or bust the hinge wood you have lost contol of the tree and it's going to fall as it feels like.

Personally I would be setting the rope as high as practical and just taking the slack out of the rope/cable.

Then normal knotch, backcut and tap in some wedges in case the tree settles back on the saw. Getting the hinge correct is the important part because that controls the tree, at least for the first 1/2 of it's fall, and after that, well it's committed anyway.

If the tree has a foward lean it will probably just topple over where you want it, no problemo. If it's sitting back on the wedges, walk around the fall zone and give it some persuasion with the winch. As long as your hinge is correct it's going to go where you aimed / are pulling from.

Of course, Be Carefull   

Ian

[chevytaHOE5674]

IMO i would find someone with experience and confidence to instruct you on the proper technique to put them on the ground. Having someone show you the proper technique up front will save you much headache and grief down the road.

[treefarmer87]

thanks guys  most of them are leaning towards the right direction but the biggest ones are leaning towards the power line ill just make a notch and maybe put light tension on the tree with the winch. cut a little and winch, and do it that way

[Maine372]

CALL THE UTILITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  they will usually do it free or cheap if you ask. its cheaper for the to pay to have the trees removed  than to put the lines back up when you oops. not to mention the risk of death by electrocution. the tree and the skidder could both become energised and burn.

it is the law if you are working within 10 ft of the wires you have to call the utility (ansi Z133.) that includes the trees you are cutting and the machine not just your body. if you blow power and live the fines are huge.

most utilities are understanding and should work with you on getting the trees on the ground in useable lengths. they may even chip the brush for free! call first! they will atleast cover the wires for you

[240b]

CALL THE POWER CO!! The local power co-op here is very, very good about helping loggers with these issues and will send a crew to do the wrk. Its is cheaper for both you and them in the long run. The juice in those lines will kill so fast you won't even know it( if you are lucky).  Ask to talk with the right of way dept. I've never had to wait longer than two days for them to be able to show up. They are also good folks to know and might send some work your way in the future. All the guys which have ever come to do a take down all agree that they would rather fit it in than have an emergency call.

[tlandrum]

i would never ever ever ever pre tension a tree then cut a notch and back cut. i always use a partner in your situation to tension as needed while cutting.

[treefarmer87]

i know something about knocking lines down i have done it twice @ the farm it not fun and extremely dangerous. i think ill check with the power company first.

[bill m]

Before you do anything you should check with your insurance co. to see if you are covered for this type of work. Not having the proper insurance and hitting the house or power lines will be expensive.

[Clark]

i have a row of huge poplar in between a garage and power line.

As I understand it, 1/2 of the area that is safe to retreat to is now gone and if things go wrong the other 1/2 will likely have power lines in it.  Possibly on your back.  Call the utility, they'll take care of it.  No veneer grade log will pay for the potential hospital bills.

Clark

[acl2]

The ones that are leaning the right way I would say you could cut those without winching at all, if they lean back just give them a gentle push with the arch of your skidder. As for the ones that lean toward the power line, that is dangerous territory and would have to agree about calling in the utility company. I have seen people,even experienced cutters, cutting trees similar to this go wrong several times and it goes wrong very fast.

[DouginUtah]

What could possibly go wrong when working around powerlines?

http://www.xmission.com/~sherwin/powerline/powerline.html

[John Mc]

I'm not clear on exactly how much room you have, but if you are good with directional felling (i.e. can reliably come within a few feet of a target stake driven in the ground 30 or so feet away, even if that's not the way the tree "wants to fall") then I wouldn't use a rope at all. A single rope or cable doesn't really steer the tree, a good hinge does. Once the tree has started to move, the rope doesn't do much of anything. As others have noted, pre-tensioning can cause more problems than it solves in some cases.

I'd make my notch, bore cut to set up the hinge exactly how I wanted it, while the tree was still held by the wood behind the bore. Then make my back cut to release it, using a wedge or two if needed.

I'd consider using rope or some other aid if there were rot or a really difficult lean, but then again, if that were the case, I'd probably be calling the power company in this situation.

John Mc

[treefarmer87]

im going to limb and top some of them tomorrow most of them are in the right direstion except for 4 big ones closest to the lines ill get help with them from the power company. i usually can come within a few feet so i shouldnt have any problems

[chevytaHOE5674]

i usually can come within a few feet so i shouldnt have any problems

Coming from a guy who used to do ROW clearing work, usually really isn't good enough (I had a few very experienced coworkers [read more experience than the length of time you've been alive] who were injured from just branches touching the lines). Power can and does KILL. If there is any doubt get somebody else to get them down.

[John Woodworth]

I've always had good expierences with the power company, they will either drop the lines if needed or stand by, as long as they are there and you do have a problem it doesent cost you.

[Ron Scott]

Yes, contact the power company first!

[ford62783]

well i have seen sum guys use a tounge and groove notch on trees like that with no tension or excessive forward lean but i would prefer to do it with a lil tension and a vermont notch and as said before its all in the notch

[RSteiner]

well i have seen sum guys use a tounge and groove notch on trees like that with no tension or excessive forward lean but i would prefer to do it with a lil tension and a vermont notch and as said before its all in the notch

Had to ask,,, not sure I know what a vermont notch is. 

Randy

[ford62783]

sorry term aways used around here a vermont notch is a borecut

[Maine372]

i cant believe the guy that landed that spruce top on the 3 phase lived! that could be anywhere from 20-35 thousand volts! (you think 220 hurts)

electricty leaves burns on you where it enters and exits your body. but what it does while its inside is what kills you. think of it as third degree burns on your internal organs. if you live you will have affects for years if not the rest of your life.

while most of my experience is logging i am currently working utility line clearance. let us do what we are trained to do.

[RSteiner]

i cant believe the guy that landed that spruce top on the 3 phase lived! that could be anywhere from 20-35 thousand volts! (you think 220 hurts)

electricty leaves burns on you where it enters and exits your body. but what it does while its inside is what kills you. think of it as third degree burns on your internal organs. if you live you will have affects for years if not the rest of your life.

while most of my experience is logging i am currently working utility line clearance. let us do what we are trained to do.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my cousin the other day, he use to be a climber for the public works department in the city he lived in.  One job was removal of a tree along a major city street.  One small branch was a couple of feet from the power line.  He determined he could hand saw the branch with one hand and hold the branch from falling with the other. 

Just as the branch was cut through a couple of leaves touched the line and gave him a little tingle.  At the same time he pulled his gaffs from the tree and was swinging to a better location.  The tingling stopped as soon as he was suspended by his climbing rope. 

Working around power lines is dangerous stuff.

Randy

[Maine372]

he was part of (if not the only) path to ground. once he pulled his spikes he was no longer a path to ground. his rope must have been dry. ropes that have any moisture in them will be a path to ground as well.

[quietrangr]

The guy with the spruce top should have climbed higher, taking off all the limbs as he went, and cut it off maybe five or six feet from the top, with a rope attached for lowering. As to the popples, notches don't always do the trick. You might have rot in the center, or somewhere else and lose control, or you might just make the cut wrong. If you can't drop straight away from obstacles by pulling or natural lean, trim them down until it's too short to reach the obstacle. Your notch only determines general direction for certain, the tree can still drop to one side or another. Most of the time the tree will go where you want, but with expensive obstacles in the way, is it worth the risk?

[flushcut]

Climb them and piece them down.

[MFinity]

I would say, no matter how experienced a faller you are - pro or not - if you're near a power line CALL THE POWER CO. Things can and do go wrong even for a pro. I was managing a timber sale years ago and there was a 32" ponderosa pine on the edge of the right of way with a lean angling towards the line.  logger really didn't want to wait an extra day for the utility faller to arrive - time is money - but he relented and we got the utility out there the next day. So the utility man got out there and aimed for the tree to lay down alongside the right of way. Which it did but it angled a little bit farther away from the line than he intended and it clipped another tree on the way down. That  sent the top half of that one into the power line - brought the line and two power poles down. 
So it cost the logger an extra day but it didn't cost him his money or his life.

[treefarmer87]

now i dont have to worry about it- got the property
serveyed and they are on the other property