Author Topic: Beam span (Read 7877 times)

Neil_B · « **on:** October 16, 2003, 02:58:35 pm »

I don't check in on this topic too often

but thought it would be the best place to ask. I searched around for a span calculator but couldn't find one I needed.
I am putting up a saw shed and cut a maple into a 6 x 8" x 20' beam for the log entry door. Wondered though, if a 4 x 8 x 20 would work instead as it would square up the beam a little better.
I'm in Canada so snow is a factor but I planned on putting in bracing at least 3 to 4 feet from the corner of the post/beam, at 45deg of course. This would allow me to still get long logs in through the bottom half of the doorway and still support the beam.

Thanks for any advice
Neil

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #1 on:** October 16, 2003, 04:22:25 pm »

In order to do a beam analysis an engineer would need more info, like what is the snow load per square foot for your area?
What other timbers will be attached to this timber?
Is this a shed style roof?
And/or this is just the header over the door?
If it's a header over the door what else will be attached to it, including spacing of these timbers?
Is that hard maple or soft maple?
Are the braces at 3' or 4'? There is a difference and that spacing is important to know.
There is a lot to consider when you're trying to figure out what size beam will be OK.
I have a beam analysis program and if you can tell me the answers to these questions maybe
I can figure it out for you.

Jim

Jeff · « **Reply #2 on:** October 16, 2003, 04:55:43 pm »

Well looky here. Don P did this one using our base forum calcs.
http://www.forestryforum.com/members/donp/beamclc4.htm

Pretty cool eh?

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #3 on:** October 16, 2003, 05:11:47 pm »

Very nice.

Is there a link to that some where else for others to find it?
I couldn't find it in the tool box.
Jim

Jeff · « **Reply #4 on:** October 16, 2003, 05:24:44 pm »

Jim, at some point, I am going to reorganize the calculators for this website. They are on the TImber Buyers Network right now (we are the offspring so to speak of that website). I will add a dropdown list for them somewhere including the great one that Don has been creating.

tado list stuff...

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #5 on:** October 16, 2003, 05:32:02 pm »

Neil_B · « **Reply #6 on:** October 17, 2003, 04:53:17 am »

Thanks Jeff, I tried the calc but really didn't know what it was telling me

Maybe I'll go through it again and transfer the info back here but for now I'll answer Jim's questions.

There will be no other timbers on this beam, just the trusses.
A frame roof, maybe just rafters, haven't decided yet. Pitch undecided at this point
Hard maple,
Will put the braces at 4',
So when the beam is on the posts, ash 6x6, there will be 19' span. Corner braces on 4' down the post and 4' into the beam. Final span between braces should be 11'

Snow load for my area is 33.28 lb/sqft or 1.6 kPa
Neil

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #7 on:** October 17, 2003, 07:29:49 am »

Neil:
I'm not sure if you understand that in order to figure out how strong you need to make your beam you need to know all the facts and information.
You'll need to decide the size of the roof and where and what will be bearing on this beam.
You'll need to make a diagram like this sample below:

If you can see it you need to know how many square feet at 33.28 will be bearing on this timber. Do you have any idea?
I understand your comment: "There will be no other timbers on this beam, just the trusses." But what shape are the trusses and how many will be resting on the timber?
What's the spacing?
More information is needed to get a correct answer.
Jim

Neil_B · « **Reply #8 on:** October 17, 2003, 08:13:59 am »

Ok, thanks Jim,
Figured it might be easier than that, but if you have a copy of that diagram to email to me I could get some specific numbers for you. All I know for sure right now, is that the shed will be 16' wide so looking at at least 10 feet + of roof on that side of the building with trusses spaced 2' apart.

Looks like I may have to shovel off the roof everyday

beenthere · « **Reply #9 on:** October 17, 2003, 08:50:27 am »

New_sawyer
Maybe consider putting a 'gable' end over the wide door entry and a truss above (like a dormer on a house). That way you will not have to deal with the snow load, snow melt, rain gutters, etc. and can get the span strength you will need. Just the weight of the maple beam you are talking about may not be enough to keep it straight (sagging over time) let alone the load from the roof being supported from that side. Just a more expensive thought.

IndyIan · « **Reply #10 on:** October 17, 2003, 09:11:16 am »

Just to add my two cents.
Every timber frame book I've read says not to count the braces to shorten your span in your calculations. This is to add a safety factor. Also if your building has high winds hitting it one of your braces may actually be in tension, stressing the beam more instead of helping it.

One thing you do have going for you is that the amount of deflection in the beam can be greater in your saw shed than would be acceptable in a house. You don't want it look too droopy with a pile of snow on it but your not worrying about cracking drywall on the ceiling either.

Maybe you'll need to use two maple beams or 14"x10" piece of white pine or a steel I-beam. Wood would be better for a saw shed though

If you play around with the calculator you'll find that the depth of the beam can be more important than the strength of wood.

Ian

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #11 on:** October 17, 2003, 10:24:05 am »

Neil:
If you increase the pitch of the roof to something like a 12/12, a 45° slope and use something like a metal roof the snow won't stay on the roof very long.
I'd be happy to make up a rough drawing of the saw shed for you with a nice little floor plan program I have to show you what it would look like.
Send me a floor plan sketch and some wall details and an idea about what you'd like for the roof and I'll make something up for you.
Jim

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #12 on:** October 18, 2003, 05:18:09 am »

Neil:
Here is an example of a drawing:

Here is a run-in shed for horses:

These are some drawings that have helped the builders to see what they will look like.

Jim

Neil_B · « **Reply #13 on:** October 18, 2003, 05:58:05 am »

That's cool Jim, do you just have to punch in numbers and the program creates the image? I'll try and get some more done on the plans this weekend and copy them to you.

I kinda like beenthere's idea with the gable as it would match my house.

Only thing is it would change the whole layout of the shed. Something to consider though.

IndyIan, I had considered the steel beam but the 24 footer I put in my garage was almost $500. Will have to see if that would fit my "budget"

Minnesota_boy · « **Reply #14 on:** October 18, 2003, 06:17:31 am »

You can seriously increase the capacity of a wood beam by cutting a groove in the top and inserting a piece of plate steel, then drill holes and run bolts through it. It will keep the visual appearance of the wood beam but have the strength of steel. The wood beam will keep the steel from twisting under load. Make sure the steel is a tight fit in the groove.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #15 on:** October 18, 2003, 06:23:41 am »

The red barn drawing was created in a floor plan program that cost around $49. You have to tell it how tall the walls are and then just draw the shape in plan view. Then tell it what shape the roof is and what shingles you want on it, and it inserts it for you. Then you have to place each door and window in the location where you want them.
The run-in shed was drawn in another timber framing CAD program, one stick is place in at a time, but sometimes you can do many if the spacing is the same.
here is what the first program made the run-in shed look like:

Don P · « **Reply #16 on:** October 18, 2003, 04:14:20 pm »

Here is my read of the building;
!9' clearspan - 228"
10' of building width bearing on the beam.
190 square feet of surface...I rounded to 200 for a quick check. I rounded up the snow load to 50 PSF to add for dead load.
50PSFx200SF=10,000 lb load on the beam
I punched that in and came up with 6.42" deflection and a section size of 64 vs the 247 necessary...the 6x8 is WAY undersize. I came up with an 8x14 in soft maple as being close.
I specced in a Parallam (on a version of the calc I'm working on) which is stiffer and stronger and came up with a 6x14.

Jim, does that jibe with your program?

Neil_B · « **Reply #17 on:** October 18, 2003, 04:30:30 pm »

I think maybe I'd better look for another log

. It was the only 20 footer I had around so thought I would try it. Oh well, didn't pay anything for it so maybe I can use it elsewhere in the building.

Thanks a bunch

Don P · « **Reply #18 on:** October 18, 2003, 04:45:39 pm »

Hold on though I want Jim to check in, I'm double checking a number that felt wrong, not sure the moment is calculating right...

That's why I'm trying to get us a calc to spec this stuff...not sure this is it yet, its clunky and tough to use yet, but you see the need.

What caught my eye was the 6x8, that is a size often specced for 8' porch carry beams on the log cabins I've done, posts are typically about 8' apart so the span looked big. Span kills a timber fast, try not to go any farther than necessary. If I remember right, fiberstress squares with span, deflection cubes...you get into trouble faster than you anticipate.

Here's the index to the calcs I've put on the webspace Jeff is kind enough to let us play on.
http://www.forestryforum.com/members/donp/CalculatorIndex.htm

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #19 on:** October 18, 2003, 04:58:45 pm »

Don P:
I haven't tried to figure anything out because I didn't have any dimension on the size of New_Sawyer's saw shed.

I can understand your clear span dimension, but my drawing of the barn was my drawing from an old customer not the dimensions of New_Sawyer's shed.

If he was to make it that size your figures could be correct in regard to the number of square feet.

Now I took his 33.28 lbs per sq-ft and and rounded it off to 34, and then added 10 lbs per sq-ft for dead load, figure that to be the average for roof decking and shingles. Totaling 44 lbs per sq-ft.
But not knowing how much of the roof was bearing on the timber, and/or the shape of the roof, it's hard to figure.
If it's a hip roof like the above drawing then the amount on the header beam could be less, maybe?
That's why I wanted to know the floor plan dimensions and some idea about the roof design before I tried to figure the actual load on the timber.
Quite honestly, I thought a 6x8 was too small at a 20' span, but I didn't want to say so, until I had some facts to back it up.
I'm kinda glad you said it first.

New_Sawyer if you have some ideas in your head about the size of your saw shed, make up a drawing and email it to me and I'll look at it, as we have discussed.
Adding steel to your current beam might work. If you added some angle iron to the bottom two corners it would help make that 6x8 stronger, or you could make a cut and put in a piece of flat stock as Minnesota_Boy has suggested. That isn't a bad way of making the current beam work.
Putting a gable over the door pushes the weight of the roof over the opening to the sides at the valley rafter connection to the posts. This could help reduce the load for the header beam and make this current timber work.
But you'll have to design the post and valley rafters big enough for the load and make the connection correctly.

It can be done many different ways.
Jim

Don P · « **Reply #20 on:** October 19, 2003, 05:20:41 pm »

I went back to the books and checked the calculator, I believe it is putting out good numbers. I would like to walk you all through what it is doing to see if I can give an explanation of how to use it. Kind of working on an instruction page I guess, please give me feedback if this is of interest and how to make it more understandable or useable.

Checking a uniformly loaded simple beam in bending. This is a rectangular wood beam supported on both ends and loaded evenly along its length. A rafter, joist, girder or header is often a beam of this type.

We need to know what the load is on the beam. Use as an example a door header with a 19' clearspan on a 16 foot wide building that has 2 foot overhangs.

The combined Live Load and Dead Load on the building's roof is 50 pounds per square foot. The area in gray shows the portion of the roof bearing on the beam, 19' X 10'...190 square feet. Multiply that by 50 pounds of weight on every square foot = 9500 pounds bearing on the beam.

In order to find the section modulus required we need to find the maximum bending moment and divide it by the allowable fiberstress for the species and grade we would like to use.

The formula for finding the maximum bending moment is:
Mmax = WL / 8
Mmax = (9500 X 19) / 8
Mmax = 22562.5 ft/lbs

To find the section modulus required we need to divide the maximum bending moment in inch pounds by the allowable fiberstress:
Sreq = Mmax X 12 / Fb
= (22562.5 X 12) / 1150
= 270,744 in/lbs / 1150 lbs/sq in
= 235.4 inches² required

We are looking for a beam with a section modulus of 235.4 in²
The formula for determining section modulus for a rectangular beam is
S = bd² / 6
Lets try a 6 X 8...
S = 6 X ( 8 X 8) / 6
= 6 X 64 / 6
= 64
we needed a value of 235.4 or greater, we have 64...not even close. Try again with an 8X14 it comes to 261.3...that works as does a 10 X 12 at 240 in²

That concludes the first check, for extreme fiberstress in bending.
I'll stop there for now and see what you all say...

Neil_B · « **Reply #21 on:** October 19, 2003, 07:35:12 pm »

I understand now, Thanks Don. Always helps to have a short explanation to go with the numbers. The other calculators are great to play around with also.

Still trying to decide how I want to lay this out but will try and get some dimensions in soon.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #22 on:** October 20, 2003, 06:56:49 am »

Don P:

Very nice instruction about how to figure the beam size.

I did seem to see on error though. Your example is a 14' wide building with a 2' over hang, each side. That's 18', half of 18' is 9'. 9x19=171,171x50=8550.

Mmax (8550x19)/8 =20,306.25

(20306.25 x 12)/1150=211.89 in²

A 9x12 just makes it but I would want more for insurance.

Don P · « **Reply #23 on:** October 20, 2003, 07:27:13 pm »

I do appreciate the feedback. I'll keep plugging away at an explanation of the other checks.

Quote

19' clearspan on a 16 foot wide building that has 2 foot overhangs

I shrank the picture too much I think, after I read your response I looked at the picture and the 16 optimized to look alot like 14'. I'll clean up the pic for the instruction page and use a bigger font.
Does your program list design values by species? I've had a hard time finding horizontal shear values.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #24 on:** October 21, 2003, 08:07:01 am »

Don:
My program doesn't list design values by species, you have to look them up if you use the "custom value" button.
I've got to get a set of values from the big book, or buy a book that has these, like the National Design Specifications book.
I do have some charts from different timber framing books, but not all of them.

Sorry about mis-reading your dimension figure and not re-reading your text instructions.

Jim

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #25 on:** October 21, 2003, 08:17:07 am »

My books have a listing for "Red Maple" and for "mixed Maple". So in order to give New_Sawyer a good answer we'd need to know if it's "red" Maple or in the mixed category.

Don: Are you looking for the F_v value? That is shear parallel to grain? If so I have some of those numbers, in a chart in one of my books. I can email a copy to you if you send me a pm and give me your email address, I'll scan them in and send them right out to you.

And in continuing this thread, we need to know the width of the building to determine the actual amount of roof that's being supported by the log doorway header. And the shape of the roof whether or not there is a dormer over the log doorway or not.
Jim

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #26 on:** October 21, 2003, 08:32:41 am »

Don:
I used my beam check calculator program and entered the values from the my book for Mixed maples. And used the 9550 lbs from your figures, and the beam fails all the way up to 14" x 16" the largest setting the program will allow.
I did a check using a round log and it failed all the way up to 24" diameter log, again the largest setting allowed.
So there is some definite problems with using "mixed" maple and the span or the amount of roof being held up with this beam.
Jim

Neil_B · « **Reply #27 on:** October 21, 2003, 09:13:11 am »

Yikes, you guys are really working on this

thanks for all the input.

By the sounds of things, wood wize, I think I will be better off spending the money on a steel beam. I have one in my garage spanning 24' so I know another should work on this. I'll check my code book on this to make sure it is close to the same load. The beam in the garage is mainly just supporting the floor of my shop but not snow load so I'll have to double check the ratings.

Jim, Don has the correct dimension for the width/ depth of the building at 16' so those numbers should be right. I may have to hold back on this for a bit though. Just went in to see our building inspector and he's OK with the building but not with the zoning of the property.

May have to involve a lot of red tape before I go ahead and finalize the drawings.

Thanks again for all the input.
Neil

Don P · « **Reply #28 on:** October 21, 2003, 06:40:23 pm »

Neil ,
I'm like a pig in a puddle

Also look into a parallam, microllam or flitch plate. My calc ran the parallam a little heavier than the co's literature, I'm reading a 5.25 X 12 should work.

Jim,
Exactly, Fv is what I lack. Check your messages, Thanks.
No sorry necessary, the misread was feedback on my "artwork"

. I've gone back and used bigger fonts on it.
I was using the lowest values I have for maples in my example. Fb, Fiberstress in bending for red is 1450 psi, for sugar, silver and black it is 1150 psi, I used the 1150. I used the lowest modulus of elasticity (E) in my deflection figures earlier in the thread, silver maple at E=.94 million psi. I've got red at 1.39 and 2" less deflection (still about 4.3"). Running the same numbers on my log beam calc (1150Fb, .94E, 9500lbs, 228" span) I'm coming up with a 15 incher. What values do you give for mixed maple? It seems more conservative than mine, wondering if it is in the values or the program formulas?

Don P · « **Reply #29 on:** October 22, 2003, 06:05:11 pm »

Joist Sizing:

A joist is basically a small beam, normally considered to be uniformly loaded. Around here they are typically designed for a 40 or 50 pounds per square foot loading. A joist is normally limited by deflection, it gets too bouncy or sags enough to crack plaster before it is in fiberstress trouble, always work all the checks to be sure though.

Going back to our same example, lets run 16' floor joists across the right side of the building on 16" centers. Each joist will support an area halfway to each adjoining joist. 8" along one side and 8" along the other side, 16" wide by 16' long. The joists are in blue, the area of bearing on one is in green. I like to work it like a board foot calculation...
(192" X 16") / 144 = 21.33 square feet
21.33 SF X 50 PSF = 1066 pounds
I like yellow pine for joists, I'm guessing it will take a pretty decent 2X12 so will start with a no.2. Don't forget to plug in actual dimensions, in this case I'll plug in 1.5 x 11.25.

Run it and it comes up larger than needed in fiberstress and fine on deflection (I used loblolly)...try to economize go to a 2 x 10, deflection fails, too bouncy. As a rafter with the same loading the 2 x 10 would be fine, more deflection is allowed there, Fb typically limits rafters.

Shear is fine.

I have this in tables...that would be the correct way to spec this, My CABO book says that 2 x 12 is good out to 19' 1" and a 2 x 10 is only good to 15' 8". CWC book says 18'10" and 16'1" respectively. Now with wall framing the span will work by code at 2 x 10, its near the limit, judgement call, I would bump up if at all possible. Code is limiting to 1/360 span deflection (a 15' span would deflect 1/2" at design load). Many floors are now specced at 1/480, consumers are wanting stiffer floors nowadays.

Rafter? Same way, just use horizontal clearspan not the angled run length, deflection can be up to 1/180 span, my calc is set up to read 1/360th so it can be double the allowed deflection number in a rafter. These are minimums, you can always go bigger.

Don P · « **Reply #30 on:** October 23, 2003, 05:12:24 am »

This is a flitch plate beam pic I had. The beam is a sandwich of 9" microllams around a 1/2 x 9 steel plate, bolting was specced by the supplier. I drill several small holes in the plate and nail it to the first LVL, drill one way, assemble the second microllam and drill back from the other side, then bolt. Usually the guys upstairs at your local truss plant can spec these.

Neil_B · « **Reply #31 on:** October 23, 2003, 06:27:26 am »

I was thinking of still using the 6" x8" beam that I milled. Getting 2 lengths of 3" angle iron and welding them together to create a "T" then inserting into a 2 3/4" groove in the top? or bottom? of the beam. Then bolting through the flanges created as well as through the beam and steel in the groove.
Does this make sense??

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #32 on:** October 23, 2003, 08:15:39 am »

New_Sawyer:
I can understand your wanting to use the beam you've created. But sometimes you have to think things out, more.
First if I was going to do what you intend to do, make a saw shed, I'd want it to be the best and last a long time. You don't want to have to take it apart in a few months when the snow is all over it, with your mill under it, when it's collapsed onto your mill.
Next if I was going to try to cut the maple and put in a steel t-shaped beam, I'd buy a steel t-shaped beam not weld one up. If I was going to buy a steel beam I'd buy one big enough to do the job without the maple.
Now there are other solutions.
You need to lower the weight on this beam until it doesn't fail, in all the calculations. This can be done by redesigning your shed. Who cares if the shed roof doesn't look like your house roof? Does that really matter? It's a saw shed.
Some solutions would be to put a dormer over the log door and which would relocate all the load over this beam to the valley rafters, and then to the posts on either side of the door like this:

This could work as the load of the roof is shifted from the beam over the door opening to the sides.

Another way to do it would be to buy or build a truss for holding up the roof over the log door.
If you reduce the overhang of the roof over the log door area then you'll reduce the load on the beam.
Increase the roof angle will somewhat reduce some load to the beam by making the snow load duration shorter, but will increase some wind load on the roof.

To date you've not told us several things that we need to know in order to help you figure things out.
1. Type of maple? do you know?
2. Amount of roof overhang? You said a 16' wide shed, but you didn't say how many feet, if any, of overhanging roof. This is important because it will add to the load.
3. Intended roof pitch 12/12 or less?
4. Type of roof? shingles over boards, standing seam metal roof? These two roofs have different weights per square foot for figuring dead loads of the structure.

Some of the above answers will help us to understand what you want your shed to look like and how much of a load will be on the beam.

Now I'm not saying you should not use that beam at all, but if the figures don't add up then you should consider not using it as it might not be the best thing to do. If you decide to build your own truss for the header you maybe could use it as the bottom cord.

Keep thinking about it.
I heard it once said, 80% planning, 20% execution. (Plan it right, build it right).
Jim

Don P · « **Reply #33 on:** October 24, 2003, 05:41:08 am »

Neil,
Where is the best place to use steel in a beam? The bottom. The label on the first section of my calc, extreme fiber, refers to the extreme outermost fibers in tension. In a beam that is typically the bottom edge. Fb in steel is more like 24000 psi instead if the 1150 we used for soft maple. Modulus of elasticity, used in the deflection calc is close to 29 million psi instead of the .94million for soft maple. I am far from qualified to tell you how to blend the materials safely.

Work the same problem with the highest values allowable for the strongest maple. Red Maple has an Fb of 1495 instead of the 1150 I used earlier, the numbers are still way off.

Do it another way, block the beam up on cinder blocks. I'm guessing about 18 drums of water, that would be a stack about 2 high or 95, 100 pound sacks ...at that load my mind says no way

Do it another way, run the calc using a red maple 2 x 24, same span and load (228", 9500lbs)...it works, same number of BF. Not suggesting you try to get a 2 x 24, that looks like a parallel chord truss, Just showing another way of looking at it, your beam is too shallow. Or another rule of thumb, deeper is cheaper.

I like the gable over the doors, it keeps the entry drier too.
I've seen a steel triangular truss with a rod down to the sagging header sitting atop a shed roof, farm tech

.

Neil_B · « **Reply #34 on:** October 25, 2003, 06:26:04 pm »

Some things have changed recently so a redesign is under way. As soon as I revamp my drawings, I will stick 'em on here for you guys to check out.

Jim, that beam is a sugar maple.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #35 on:** November 03, 2003, 05:58:24 am »

To Don P;
At the recent conference I got some new info on NDS specifications.
In the most recent published books, which was in 2001 the shear values have changed. It seems that someone who works for those who publish them rechecked all the figures and it was determined that the values were incorrect and that the had be published wrong. Somehow the values were subtracted twice or something like that. So now the new book has new values that are twice as strong as the old values. But don't do anything until, we, you or I, receive it in writing from the NDS.

We need to be sure about this.
But I though it's pass it on to you.
Jim

Don P · « **Reply #36 on:** November 03, 2003, 06:58:28 pm »

Holy Big Beams Batman...glad the error was in that direction not the other. Although the values you sent do not appear low in comparison to others I've seen, I'll not enter the shear values till you get new ones. I'm still entering NDS Fb numbers and was going to do E values as I have time. I haven't posted that version yet but have been denoting NDS values with a + sign behind them. It was a tossup over the weekend...sunny and 70, I sawed instead

.

Thanks for the heads up!

Don P · « **Reply #37 on:** November 06, 2003, 08:48:39 pm »

Check out this joist and rafter calc.
http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/calc/timbercalcstyle.asp
Jim sent me a link for their publications and I was surfing their site. You da man Jim!

This was the publications list Jim sent me.
http://www.forestprod.org/awc/index.html

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #38 on:** November 07, 2003, 05:20:38 am »

Don P:
What we need to find now is a calculator that will allow us to put in any size beam.
I have some others sites I need to research to find one, I'll let you know when I do.

Jim

Neil_B · « **Reply #39 on:** November 07, 2003, 06:01:08 am »

Hi guys, figured I'd better update you guys.
Still working on new plans but now I'm looking at a 14' by 85' building instead.
Instead of one 19' opening there will now be 2 at either end of the shed. Logs go in one and lumber, edged and trimmed, out the other end. Have a line on 2 steel beams, 5" x 12" I think, from the township, so waiting to hear back from them on whether they are going to keep them or not. Came out of a building in town that burned down a couple years ago, but they don't look like they were scorched at all.

Been keeping a watch on this thread and some very interesting info is coming up. Thanks.

beenthere · « **Reply #40 on:** November 07, 2003, 03:19:40 pm »

I'm curious why you are going so narrow (14')

I would expect I would feel real confined in such a narrow and long building. But figure you have a plan, or a restriction that makes sense.

Neil_B · « **Reply #41 on:** November 07, 2003, 07:04:47 pm »

Will post a pic of my layout. Everything should flow from one end to the other. Just need it wide enough to work in as narrower is cheaper and longer is easier to layout without tripping over things

News:

Author Topic: Beam span (Read 7877 times)