Help felling a hang up tree

[cornucopia72]

I apologize if this question has already been answered before.  I tried the search tool in the forum and did not find my situation discussed.  I am in the process of clearing several pine trees out of an oak grove.  The pines were introduced and I want to have only native trees in this parcel.  My experience is limited.  I have used a chainsaw for felling and firewood cutting out of fruit trees and a few walnut trees.

 I fell about 8 pine trees ranging in diameter from 8” to 14” without any problems.  Then I came to this tree that was growing trough the branches of a mature costal live oak tree.  Both trees are growing on a slope that I guess is between 10 and 15%.  This pine tree was about 10” in diameter and 40’ tall while the oak tree is about 30” in diameter and 30’ tall.  The trees are about 10’ apart with the pine beings down slope from the oak.  I thought there was and opening for the pine tree to fell but after I made my cuts about 2.5’ off the ground it the tree just slid down to the ground and lean/hung on the oak tree.  The pine is very slender as it had to grow in the shade of the large oak.  I was thinking about tying a rope to the base of the pine and pull it down hill with a tractor or winch.  I would appreciate your help, please tell me if I am nuts or if mine is a sensible idea.

[mr T]

Sounds good to me.Just make sure youve got long enough rope in case it goes wrong way Good luck

[Hilltop366]

If possible but the tractor where the tree can not fall and pull the bottom out, perhaps up hill to one side of the oak.

[Ianab]

Hard to give exact advise online without seeing the actual mess, but yes getting a long rope and dragging it down from a safe distance is usually the recommended method.

Long rope so you dont drag things down on your head, and if you are pulling it with a tractor keep your hitch point low to reduce the risk of flipping the tractor if the log doesn't move or digs in on an obstacle.

Ian

[Maine372]

if you arent using the wood for lumber you can cut 3 or 4 foot peices off the bottom. its tricky, but doable. 10 inches is a little large for this trick, but it could work if you cant get tractor or rope, or if the butt sticks in the ground.

this is a dangerous practice. proceed at your own risk.

[cornucopia72]

If possible but the tractor where the tree can not fall and pull the bottom out, perhaps up hill to one side of the oak.

I tried adding a drawing to help me explain the situation... no luck.  I am afraid of being under the drip line of any of the two trees while trying to move the tree thinking that a brach may fall and hit me.

[cornucopia72]

if you arent using the wood for lumber you can cut 3 or 4 foot peices off the bottom. its tricky, but doable. 10 inches is a little large for this trick, but it could work if you cant get tractor or rope, or if the butt sticks in the ground.

this is a dangerous practice. proceed at your own risk.

How is the trick performed?  I do not know if I will try it here but it would be good to consider it.

[4genlgr]

cornucopia72
first this is not an osha approved way of getting a tree down and we all do things that aren't at times i've done it but also have 30yrs with a saw in my hands
it is allmost like the way you cut he tree in the first place - taking a chuck to shorten the tree and get it to fall-directional control is very sketchy -  last resort type thing

if i read the story right you have a skinny pine leaning down hill in an oak and the butt of the pine is probably on the down hill side of its stump, and you have access to a long strong rope(100' plus)

you would like to pull it down hill that means you need to be a long ways away because your going to probably have to get the tree vertical before it will fall and most likly have to pull it all the way down if it falls before vertical you need to be where you won't get hit

if it is behind the stump do you have a way to pull sideways than you can pull it uphill (if you can) and the weight of the will help it through the oak you won't have to go vertical  this way if your pulling up hill and the tractor is still on the slope be carefull best bet tie off to the front and pull in reverse either way tie low on the tree and the tractor

you might get it to move by shaking it with the rope set up or after all tis the wind might have done the job for you
in all things better safe than sorry    good luck

[DanG]

I think he said the pine is downhill from the oak.  Your original idea is good, Cornicopia.  Just tie on to the butt of the pine and pull downhill.  It should slide right down harmlessly if I'm picturing the situation correctly.

[captain_crunch]

Ifn you don't have a real long rope us old timber beasts would hang a block on stump(with choker as not to climp stump) in direction of fall so pulling unit is out of line of fire. Even with LONG rope pulling in lead(line) with falling tree don't always allow for knocking another one on yer noggin so if you are off to side 45-90 degs lots safer spot to be
Brian

[4genlgr]

Dang ,that was the pic in my head but i see it didn't come out the end of my fingers  DANG! thanks!

[thecfarm]

How long is your rope? I would suggest 30-40 feet.Take it slow and it should work out well.After you do this a few times and get in more of a mess you will know what to do and not to do.     I do hope you are wearing your safety gear too.

[bill m]

If your tree is forty feet tall you want a rope that is at least two times as long Minimum.

[Hilltop366]

If possible but the tractor where the tree can not fall and pull the bottom out, perhaps up hill to one side of the oak.

I tried adding a drawing to help me explain the situation... no luck.  I am afraid of being under the drip line of any of the two trees while trying to move the tree thinking that a brach may fall and hit me.

Ya that is what I was thinking (I guess it didn't come out that way) to still get far enough away so nothing will hit you or the tractor and have the added safety of being in the position where the oak is not going to let the pine fall in the direction when you are working from. Sometimes if a tree is stuck in the ground I have recut 2 or 3' up with notch and back cut (notch away from the direction you are pulling from) but stopped so there is enough wood to still hold then put choker on top part and pull it over, that will usually get you past the stump/rock/root that is in the way from pulling the bottom of the tree out, another way that sometimes works is to wrap the choker around the tree a few times after it is hooked up then to the winch line, then when you pull on the tree it will spin and roll out of the branches that are holding it, this is also handy when the log is stuck on a stump or rock.

Take your time and be safe.

[cornucopia72]

Those are all very good ideas.  Thank you to all that took the time to help me. 

I found this heavy duty come-along that I am planning on using instead of the tractor.  I will anchor one end to the base of a large tree 100' away.  I will use a combination of 1" rope and chain.  If the tree gets stuck I will use your sugestions regarding the extra cut  or the spinning pull.

I may go tomorrow to try to get this done and will report back on how it went.

[DanG]

I may go tomorrow to try to get this done and will report back on how it went.

Please do, and good luck.  Getting a hanger safely on the ground gives you a very satisfying feeling.

[Ron Scott]

Sounds like you are approaching the trees removal in an appropriate manner. It will be a learning experience for the next time that it you hang one up. We always use a skidder or forwarder to pull them down for the cutters when they hang one up.

[John Woodworth]

The one thing that generaly works is to hook your line to spin the tree when you pull, granted it's easier with chokers you can still do it with rope. Good luck , be safe and keep in mind I don't know what the fine is now from OSHA but it used to be 10,000 dollars per hanger if you get caught.

Depending on the size of your tractor if you set it to spin once it starts moving you will have both the power and speed to keep it moving.

[donny hochstetler]

two tricks that I use from time to time are , one, go up approx 3,  4  ft. at a comfortable working height, and simply cut the tree at a very sharp angle, I usually cut from the high side down till the cut starts to close, then snip the bottom,  the tree will slide right off and bury itself in the ground,  just keep cutting pieces off, every time,  the tree becomes shorter.   two  you could tie your rope approx 4 ft. high, put some tension on it,  not much,  then notch the tree directly in the opposite direction from what your pulling from,  make your back cut leaving a hinge, now go pull on the rope the tree will fold right at the hinge, with the butt coming your way and usually you can keep on moving, and in doing so the tree will come down as well.  and like always, keep your toes out of the way   

[SDM]

Hi there, one thing no ones mentioned....what if the trunk gets embedded in the ground? You need a release cut. Lets say you want to pull the trunk south; you need to make a box cut about 4ft high on the north side of the tree. your next cut will be on the south side. this cut goes toward the box but stops a good 1 to 2in from going all the way through. Tie your rope above the cuts and pull south. The back cut should open as the box closes moving the trunk a fair distance . Of course all the advise about a long rope still apply. I've used this technique for years on storm work in the tree biz. Also  have another set of eyes w/ you to watch for any hangers or broken limbs which might have your name on em. good luck.

          shawn

[captain_crunch]

Pulling it out is the only safe option Granted you can cut 3-4 ft chunks off butt by sliceing trunk at 45 deg angles but most of the time this just stands tree up straighter  thus reduceing it wanting to fall. I have went up hill and found another marked to cut tree and hammered mess down but that tree has to be committed to fall in proper direction and be at least half way to ground before hitting (this is NOT something to try at home) I should not even sucgest it at at all but I was a cutter for about 20 years and we had to do what we had to do beings there was no help till crew moved in with yarder and we DID NOT dare leave them with a trap

[John Mc]

Lets say you want to pull the trunk south; you need to make a box cut about 4ft high on the north side of the tree. your next cut will be on the south side. this cut goes toward the box but stops a good 1 to 2in from going all the way through. Tie your rope above the cuts and pull south. The back cut should open as the box closes moving the trunk a fair distance .

What is a box cut?

[bill m]

A box cut is another name for a face cut or notch cut or open face notch or conventional notch or cutting out the wedge or whatever people call it in their region. In this application an open face notch is preferable as the tree folds almost 90 degrees before the hinge breaks.

[John Mc]

A box cut is another name for a face cut or notch cut or open face notch or conventional notch or cutting out the wedge or whatever people call it in their region. In this application an open face notch is preferable as the tree folds almost 90 degrees before the hinge breaks.

OK... I've used the technique SDM described. I just have not heard the term box cut before. I thought maybe I was missing out on some new technique.

John Mc

[mad murdock]

Wow, $10,000 fine per hanger?!? I guess I have been out of the game too long.  When I was young and dumb, We would get a hanger, and climb up the tree if the angle was suitable for climbing, and with saw in hand, cut the cause of the hang and ride the tree to the ground, we used to call it "tree surfing". Sounds cool, but it is purely by the grace of God that we didn't get maimed, let alone live to tell about it!  The dumb things a guy did in his youth!!!!  I hope that you get it down safely. 

[cornucopia72]

We want to thank you all again. The hanged tree is safely resting on the ground.  My wife and I headed to the parcel yesterday because we were worried about a trespasser getting hurt if the tree decide to fell at the wrong time (the $10,000 OSHA fine was also a motivator to take  “vacation” day off).  We anchored the come-along at the base of a sturdy tree about 100’ away in the general direction that we though would be easiest to pull.  The tree was about 400’ uphill from were we parked the truck.  We decide to try the rope first (I could not find a 1” rope so we were using a Ύ” one) because he didn’t want to haul the heavy chains uphill if we could help it.  We pulled with the come-along and the rope got so tight that we feared it was going to snap but the tree did not move an inch.  We ended up hauling the chains and slowly but surely the tree slid down.  My arms are sore of pulling the lever.  We had to remove the accumulated dirt from the front of the tree several times.  The tree made a 1’ deep trench as it was dragged down hill.

 If we were to start all over with the same hanged tree we would have follow the recommendation of doing a second cut with the notch facing away from the pull line.  That way the tree would have given us a head start as far as angle plus the shape of the base would have been more conducive to sliding rather than digging as it was.

[timber tramp]

  Glad you got your tree on the ground safely. I'll bet you've learned some things from this too.                                                    TT

[4genlgr]

  all safe and sound a'int loggin' fun

[Magicman]

"Next time"  it will be completely different.  Different forces, stresses, and loads.  Another reason to never cut without two chainsaws or at least two bars/chains.  Trees/logs are very unforgiving.

[Ron Scott]

Mission accomplished!