Questions about clearing land -- for charity!

[KarateGirl258]

Hi all!

I've been reading through some of the threads in here, and it seems like you guys have a ton of experience and know-how. I, on the contrary, know *nothing* about this stuff, so if I say anything really dumb please feel free to lay on the mockery.   

The scoop:

I've recently incorporated a horse rescue, and I need to clear some land for pasture. I have about an acre and a third that's been designated as "poorly drained wetlands", which apparently means I can cut the trees but I have to leave the roots. The trees that have to go are a mix of soft and hard wood, the typical new england mix.

The questions:

1. Do I really have to leave the roots in the ground? I've been reading about "root rot" on the forum here and it sounds awful for pastures.

1a. If I have to leave the roots in, how should I go about stumping? Can I dump clean fill on top and then put grass in?

1b. If I can take the roots out, I assume I can get someone in with a big thingamajig to yank them out? 

2. (I'm asking this question as opinion, not to solicit help) As loggers, if someone asked you to help out for charity, would you consider clearing someone's land if they said you could take any wood you wanted, and they could give you a tax receipt for your time? I'm just wondering if it's even worth my while to post something on craigslist. If people wouldn't be interested then I won't bother and will make friends and family do it.   

3. Once land is cleared, do people even use clean fill to get rid of the "wetlands" aspect? I assume it was designated as such because in the springtime we have a few puddles that take a week or so to dry up. It's not underwater or anything like that. There are some deep grooves that hold a bit of water.

I'm sure there are more questions I should be asking, but as mentioned, I'm a complete newbie here. Thanks a ton for reading this far, and more thanks if you take the time to post answers! 

 

[Ron Scott]

You should have your local conservation district, extension forester, or a professional consulting look at your specific situation and soils for an on site recommendation. If the area is classified as wetlands and hydric soils, local and state permits may be required for filling in the wetlands.

Also, a local professional forester may be able to help you with a contact for the land clearing and fill as a charity donation.

[Jeff]

If you have been classified as a wetland, you really, REALLY want to make sure you get all your ducks and permits in a row. Actually, if you got wetland and ducks, be ready to be told the ducks win and are free to do what ever they want on the land where as you may not.

Disturbing designated wetlands without all the required permits can cost you time and money. Time as in the clink sort of time in drastic cases and money in fines and reparation.

Listen to Ron. I'm just here to echo, cause Ron is the ditto guy.


Side note,  You better figure family and friends because odds are, unless you're someone special or the kind of person that might regularly get struck by lightning while out playing with the ducks, no one is going to donate land clearing in this economy. It's just too expensive.

[timberfaller390]

I ditto the first answers. After you get everything lined up for the state and county to tell you it is okay to clear and fill get ready to lay down some money. Clearing land for pasture is time consuming and expensive. It will take alot to get everything sedded and fertilized for a good pasture to be established. By the way less than 2 acres is not much grass for a horse rescue program. It should carry one horse okay but more than that and they will have it eat down to the dirt and if the area is already wet then your horses are going to be living in a mud hole.

[SwampDonkey]

please feel free to lay on the mockery.  

Might want to start a pig rescue program instead.

[bill m]

Where in N.E. are you? If you can get permission from the local conservation commission to turn this into pasture ask around there are good people who will donate time to help with your project. As for the tree clearing most loggers will not do anything with the brush/slash. The stumps could be ground up with a stump grinder just to ground level, the roots would stay in the ground and you could mow over them.

[Jeff]

Bill M, you can't do that with horses. You have to remove the stumps and the roots for safety considerations.

[bill m]

OK , that makes sense. I thought if the site was flat and all roots were underground you could just grind the part of the stump that was above ground and leave the grindings to compost and turn back to soil.

[Banjo picker]

In your post you stated that the 1 1/3 acre was in the wetland class...maybe you have other land that is not in this classification...but if the 1 1/3 acre is all you got the man from Georgia has hit the nail on the head...you don't have enough ground to worry about pasture...sorry....Tim

[jmc0780]

What state are you in? In NH there is the UNH coop ext, they would be a good place to start for advice or if you aren't in nh you might have something similar in your state. They have foresters as well as other agi gurus.

I'm working on a lot right now for the same reasons, I'm just doing the cutting, but the owner wants to plant a field there. He plans on using an excavator to remove the stumps then plant and I'm sure he'll need some loam on top as well and lots fertiliser. It's also very wet, not wetlands but close.

The rotting stumps/roots are definitely not good, rotting wood sucks most of the nitrogen out of the soil. I suppose with enough fertiliser you could over come it but that might cost more than yanking them? It may cause other issues too?

I would say for sure that pulling them is your best bet, but if you can't you could cut them as close to the ground as possible and put some fill in and try to keep it well fertilised. However, my guess is that it will still be wet unless the water can be and is diverted?

[John Mc]

2. (I'm asking this question as opinion, not to solicit help) As loggers, if someone asked you to help out for charity, would you consider clearing someone's land if they said you could take any wood you wanted, and they could give you a tax receipt for your time?

I don't believe the donation of labor is tax deductible, but you may want to check with an accountant or tax expert.

[pasbuild]

In my neck of the woods if your property is  zoned agi. you can clear it but you can't fill it if it is deemed wet lands.

[WDH]

You can get a permit to clear and fill the wetland, but you will have to purchase wetland mitigation credit to do it.  Wetland mitigation credits are incredibly expensive and would be totally prohibitive for only creating pasture land.

[scsmith42]

I can't speak to the local wetlands issues, however for horse pastures, although you can leave some roots you really need to remove the stumps.

The reason why is that as the stumps rot over time, they will leave a cavity that can break a horse's leg.

[captain_crunch]

After being around horses all my life why would you cut a tree to save a horse Animal rescures don't have a good rep out west.

[thecfarm]

Karategirl258,Welcome to the forum.On my Maine land If I was to stump my land I would find rocks as big as a refrigerator to peas size.You would have to get rid of these too,if you have rocks in your area.What ever you do clear and reseed to grass,I think you would have to keep horses off it until the grass really took off. Good luck with your horse rescue program.

[timberfaller390]

After being around horses all my life why would you cut a tree to save a horse Animal rescures don't have a good rep out west.

After 10 years of shoeing horses for a living, I can say this: there is a need for horse rescue programs. I have seen horses kept in everything from million dollar stables to a thoroughbred gelding who was kept under a guys porch. Some horses need to be "rescued" and adopted out, they will make great animals for someone and others the most humane thing is to be euthanized. I have worked on horses for local rescue programs and if it is done right provides a valuable servivce for the animals. If I had to cut 10 acres of trees to save the life of one good horse I would do it in a heartbeat. I guess some people don't see horses as the inteligent animals that they are or have never been around a good horse. Dealing with a bunch of outlaw cayuses would leave a bad taste in your mouth if thats all you have been around. karategirl as myself and banjopicker have said , if you have more land then great but if the 1 1/3 acre is all then living conditions will be far less than desireable. I commend you on your efforts.

[ErikC]

  Just another opinion from a long time horseshoer, and horse owner. Horses need room, that isn't enough for more than a few, unless they are fed and cleaned up after all the time. Leaving stumps is sure to cause injuries, especially if there are several horses in there, they will get to roughhousing and then get hurt. Even if you grind them rotting roots can leave dangerous holes that aren't seen until they cave in and --SNAP--dead horse If the stumps are small, and the roots also would be, I think they could be ground just fine though.
  The comment about rescues not having a good rep out west is true, but the need for someone to look after unwanted or neglected horses is real. I am probably not going to make friends when I say this, but if the laws about selling for slaughter were different we would have a lot less problem, at least here in CA. But that is the fact. I hope you can find a way to make it work, and if you do I hope you can help a few nice horses to a better life.

[timberfaller390]

   I am probably not going to make friends when I say this, but if the laws about selling for slaughter were different we would have a lot less problem, at least here in CA. But that is the fact.

Erik, you are so right. The shutting down of the slaughter houses has been the cause of ALOT of unwanted and useless horses (the type I said was more humane to euthanize) and has caused the price of good horses to fall drasticly. People don't want to care for the very old or crippled horses and they just let them suffer cause no one wants the financial responcebility of properly caring for them. Keeping bad horses/horese with poor genitics will only cause more of the same type of horses to be bred.

[stonebroke]

  The comment about rescues not having a good rep out west is true, but the need for someone to look after unwanted or neglected horses is real. I am probably not going to make friends when I say this, but if the laws about selling for slaughter were different we would have a lot less problem, at least here in CA. But that is the fact. I hope you can find a way to make it work, and if you do I hope you can help a few nice horses to a better life.

I agree with you one hundred percent. Even though I do not presently own any horses, I have seen the problem that the horse slaughter ban has resulted in. I hear that down south people are so desperate that they are just turning them loose. Around here there are people that take on much more then they expect and it ends up as a disaster. It is affecting the regular horse business too. Horses are livestock and should be treated as such. If you want to have a horse and never put it down, you should have the resources to that care for it for along time. Which means a lot of money. Anything less is irresponsible.

Stonebroke